Shane Long

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Thanks WR, interesting opinion

[brendywendy]

Having to start Hunt at left back and become one of the few sides to lose to Charlton was the up shot of this totally misplaced loyalty that should have cost Coppell his job.

or just due to not being able to bring in armstrong as quickly as we had wished?

[Woodcote Royal]

Having to start Hunt at left back and become one of the few sides to lose to Charlton was the up shot of this totally misplaced loyalty that should have cost Coppell his job.

or just due to not being able to bring in armstrong as quickly as we had wished?

Most managers could have signed 50 left backs in 12 months.

[RobRoyal]

Having to start Hunt at left back and become one of the few sides to lose to Charlton was the up shot of this totally misplaced loyalty that should have cost Coppell his job.

Thank Christ it didn't, eh?

[Snowball]

I don't think Shane touched the ball that led to Kebe's goal either, but it really doesn't matter. Challenging for it took out that defender and let Kebe in so it's all good.

Just watched it 14 times on ITV4, agree he didn't touch it, but I'm sticking to the official line that Shane has two assists!!

Most pleasing thing was that Kebe was actually anticipating a flick on which is not always the case with our strikers/midfielders.

Watching it again, Kebe did REALLY well, he had two men on him plus the keeper and an awkward ball to control.

Great Goal and if he's dropped for Little, that will be a crusher.


Weird that 2 of the 3 most-disparaged players did well. The "hopeless" ball Shane chased (I actually shouted out "What you think he is a bloody greyhound?") but he got to it, and kept control on the line flicked it into Kebe who was supporting. Look at all the things that matter there... first he TRIES, second he makes up so much "impossible" ground, third he gets instant control under pressure, fourth he has th vision to immediate knock it inside for Kebe, and fifth, Kebe is coming like a train

But then Kebe bests three men superbly, gets it to Doyle who also did superbly, beats the keeper

only for a defender running back to somehow stop it while facing the wrong way.


Pearce's second header (cleared off the line) would have n=been an excellent goal

[Platypuss]

If Long had played like that in his previous starts there wouldn't have been any disparaging going on.

[CMRoyal]

Yes (the club and radio are wrong), not that it matters that much. In fact, I'm kind of glad he gets a stat that reflects his overall contribution to the game.

I don't know you, CM, or know what view you had, or know your eyesight
and I just cannot remember the moments leading up to Kebe's shot and goal

But I can't think of any obvious reason why I should believe you over the radio professionals and the official club view.

Not saying you are wrong. Just applying common sense

Just watched it 14 times on ITV4, agree he didn't touch it,

As expected, the eyes have it!

[Hoop Blah]

I'd argue that Long's challenge is an assist and again it highlights how limited stats can be. In most stats packages that wouldn't be classed as an assist (if recorded correctly) but without that key contribution the goal wouldn't have happened.

All these assist stats are so limited because they're usually just taken as the last attacking player to touch the ball before a goal is scored. Any one who knows anything about football is aware that that isn't always the key moment in the build up to a goal.

[CMRoyal]

I'd argue that Long's challenge is an assist and again it highlights how limited stats can be. In most stats packages that wouldn't be classed as an assist (if recorded correctly) but without that key contribution the goal wouldn't have happened.

All these assist stats are so limited because they're usually just taken as the last attacking player to touch the ball before a goal is scored. Any one who knows anything about football is aware that that isn't always the key moment in the build up to a goal.

Agreed, and reflecting on this 'accidental' credit (which simultaneously negates MM's part in the goal), I'm not sure we can trust official stats on assists at all. They usually give us only a partial picture, and as demonstrated here can also be incorrect anyway.

[Hoop Blah]

I'd argue that Long's challenge is an assist and again it highlights how limited stats can be. In most stats packages that wouldn't be classed as an assist (if recorded correctly) but without that key contribution the goal wouldn't have happened.

All these assist stats are so limited because they're usually just taken as the last attacking player to touch the ball before a goal is scored. Any one who knows anything about football is aware that that isn't always the key moment in the build up to a goal.

Agreed, and reflecting on this 'accidental' credit (which simultaneously negates MM's part in the goal), I'm not sure we can trust official stats on assists at all. They usually give us only a partial picture, and as demonstrated here can also be incorrect anyway.

Totally agree, and with Snowball further adding to them with his analysis of the OS match reports it doesn't make for the most accurate source for information.

Some of Snowball's indepth stats are still interesting though, as long as you don't treat them as gospell and base your opinions soley on their 'evidence.'

[CMRoyal]

Thanks WR, interesting opinion

If anything, my opinion falls between your two. Shorey's defensive limitations certainly were partially masked by our unprecedented run of success, but at the same time when the going got tough he was even more determined than before to get going to another club, which compounded the issues of lack of pace and lapses in concentration (alluded to by criticism of his positioning - I always thought he made up for his slowness with a good reading of the game, but he lost that last season when his focus went). His attitude problem certainly affected him last season, but if he wasn't already limited in the ways you both describe, he wouldn't be kicking his heels on the bench while a right-back plays in his position at Villa.

[SteveRoyal]

Watching it again, Kebe did REALLY well, he had two men on him plus the keeper and an awkward ball to control.

Agreed, I watched the highlights, and have to agree. The cheek he had to slot it through the keepers legs made me LOL.
Keep it up Kebe.

[CMRoyal]

I'd argue that Long's challenge is an assist and again it highlights how limited stats can be. In most stats packages that wouldn't be classed as an assist (if recorded correctly) but without that key contribution the goal wouldn't have happened.

All these assist stats are so limited because they're usually just taken as the last attacking player to touch the ball before a goal is scored. Any one who knows anything about football is aware that that isn't always the key moment in the build up to a goal.

Agreed, and reflecting on this 'accidental' credit (which simultaneously negates MM's part in the goal), I'm not sure we can trust official stats on assists at all. They usually give us only a partial picture, and as demonstrated here can also be incorrect anyway.

Totally agree, and with Snowball further adding to them with his analysis of the OS match reports it doesn't make for the most accurate source for information.

Some of Snowball's indepth stats are still interesting though, as long as you don't treat them as gospell and base your opinions soley on their 'evidence.'

Yes, I hope snowball doesn't take this too personally because his contributions are worthwhile.

[Royal With Cheese]

So, after 712 posts, is he any good or not?

[cmonurz]

So, after 712 posts, is he any good or not?

Every now and then. A bit like Shane Long.

[papereyes]

If we can sign Glen Little (presumably paying a large slice of his Premiership wage in the process) we could have plumbed the depths of other Prem squads for the variation we need up front.

This.

It would, perhaps, be churlish of me to point out that one of the four goalscorers on Sat was a young Premiership team player on loan in the Championship.

The other youngster from that team, also on loan at a 'minor' league, looks a better player, admittedly, but the principle remains intact.

[Hoop Blah]

If we can sign Glen Little (presumably paying a large slice of his Premiership wage in the process) we could have plumbed the depths of other Prem squads for the variation we need up front.

This.

It would, perhaps, be churlish of me to point out that one of the four goalscorers on Sat was a young Premiership team player on loan in the Championship.

The other youngster from that team, also on loan at a 'minor' league, looks a better player, admittedly, but the principle remains intact.

Derbyshire?

Not exactly the variation we're after though is he?

I agree with the point about getting in a young Premiership forward to give us that better mix upfront though. Can't name a specific player, but they're surely out there.

[Snowball]

As expected, the eyes have it!

Au contraire, Monsieur. The EYES of the media got it wrong, did they not? And they are being paid to SEE well.

I don't know if the people doing the web-site just rip-off the media report or EYEBALL it themselves but they
have awarded an assist for NOT touching it?

The Royals did not have too long to wait for an equaliser though. A ball down the right flank was aimed toward Long, and the Irishman may not have got a touch but did enough to see the ball through to Kebe. The Malian was in on goal, and placed a very good finish between Larrieu's legs for 2-2.

I was not sure whether there was a touch or not and had to watch it many times to decide,

And how many times on MotD or Sky in HD do we THINK we've not seen a touch and there was one
or we THINK there was a touch and there wasn't?


Also bias/prejudice etc affects what we see. Those who want to see a Shane touch might see one...

[Snowball]

I'd argue that Long's challenge is an assist and again it highlights how limited stats can be. In most stats packages that wouldn't be classed as an assist (if recorded correctly) but without that key contribution the goal wouldn't have happened.

All these assist stats are so limited because they're usually just taken as the last attacking player to touch the ball before a goal is scored. Any one who knows anything about football is aware that that isn't always the key moment in the build up to a goal.

Yes, agreed. Definitions are important. I don't even know if "assists" is always handed to the last man to touch before the scorer. For example, if Matejovsky threaded an incredible pass through half a dozen players and it's going to land at Doyle's feet... It does but it JUST touches the back of Shane on the way. Who gets the assist?

[papereyes]

If we can sign Glen Little (presumably paying a large slice of his Premiership wage in the process) we could have plumbed the depths of other Prem squads for the variation we need up front.

This.

It would, perhaps, be churlish of me to point out that one of the four goalscorers on Sat was a young Premiership team player on loan in the Championship.

The other youngster from that team, also on loan at a 'minor' league, looks a better player, admittedly, but the principle remains intact.

Derbyshire?

Not exactly the variation we're after though is he?

I agree with the point about getting in a young Premiership forward to give us that better mix upfront though. Can't name a specific player, but they're surely out there.

I was just covering myself as someone would have said "Yeah, but Derbyshire's better"

Anyway, that's it. We, apparently, are incapable of doing it yet there's Plymouth, bolstering their front line in such a way.

I also believe that had we been interested in, say, Beattie, we could have competed with Stoke for his signature (and, christ knows, had we tried to sign him in the summer ... )