Shane Long

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Alan Partridge
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Re: Shane Long

by Alan Partridge » 11 Mar 2009 10:13

Snowball
cmonurz I'm really struggling this season to match up my pleasure at our league position with my displeasure at most of our league performances. This is a truly pathetic division, and that we are still comfortably third, playing the football we have been (even during some of our better spells) is absolutely shocking.


Or maybe all the sides are quite decent, with nothing between them. There were a hell of a lot of very good results this year against Premiership sides.

I think the biggest issue is that we can't handle 4-5-1 and too many sides are simply stopping us playing, the confidence slips, the long ball starts being played more and then our Premiership class and experience is out the window and we start playing "Championship football"

Yesterday (if the pitch would allow it) was crying out for quick stuff on the floor (their CBs were huge and strong) but we resorted to the kind of game weaker teams have to employ. Hoof.


I would argue personally that there are 24 fairly mediocre teams in al honesty, on the other side of the coin I saw Torquay totally outplay Blackpool and they did so to Coventry without getting their deserved reward. As for the pitch, I thought it looked the best I've seen it in yonks so i'm not sure that's quite the excuse it was.

Reading have the odd bit of quality in their team but just too many 'triers'. I know they will run their socks off every week and you need a couple of them but we just haven't got enough players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet willing to pass it around with control and calm. Interesting Coppell said on the radio last night that we realy need someone to boss things and we lack a captain basically. Wonder if he would look to the loan system again maybe?

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:19

Alan Partridge
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cmonurz Like AP, I praised Long for his performances on other threads. Likewise, last night, he was the difference between another dismal home defeat, and a nearly as dismal home draw to the worst team in the league.



Something about that sentence makes me want to cry.

We're third, we could easily be top.


I doubt any team will get more than 80-85 points and i think that sums up the league completely.


That's "Irish". 80 points doesn't have to mean ALL-ARE-BAD it can just as easily mean MANY-ARE-GOOD.

All the pundits say how difficult this league is to get out of

Just look at the quality/history/expectations of this league


Wolves .... plenty of Premiership experience, good support, quality manager
Birmingham ... .... plenty of Premiership experience, good support, quality manager, spent loads
Reading .... two years Premiership experience, Premiership players, decent support, quality manager
Sheffield Utd ... plenty of Premiership experience, good support, quality manager
Cardiff City ... awesome support, some VG players, FA Cup finalists last year
Swansea City ... good stadium and support, have been top flight... quality players
Bristol City
Preston ... long history and have been knocking on the door for the last few years
Burnley
Ipswich Town Have been in the Premiership
QPR ... spending shedloads of money, and know what it's like to be top flight and win trophies
Sheffield Wed Once a huge club, but dragged down by money problems
Doncaster
Crystal Palace Have been in the Premiership
Coventry City Have been in the Premiership
Derby County Have been in the Premiership, previously champions of top flight
Watford ... Have been in the Premiership
Plymouth
Blackpool
Nottm Forest ... another with money troubles, but ex Premiership and European Cup Winners
Barnsley ... Have been in the Premiership
Norwich City ... money troubles again, but not so long ago were Premiership and in Europe
Southampton ... money troubles but great stadium, some excellent players, were top-flight a long time
Charlton ... not so long ago a solid top-half Premiership side

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Re: Shane Long

by Alan Partridge » 11 Mar 2009 10:20

On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.

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Re: Shane Long

by cmonurz » 11 Mar 2009 10:22

I would agree with AP, I've seen little in this division this season to get excited about. Exceptions probably Reading's brief spell of 6 or 7 games where we looked head and shoulders the best side in the league, Wolves free-scoring start, with their two free-running wingers, and Swansea's brand of football. Otherwise, it's all pretty mediocre.

Snowball - it's fair enough looking back and saying this team and that team have a big history etc, but it hasn't translated into good football. Preston a very good example of a side in the upper-end of the table, despite playing some fairly desperate football. Iirc, their goal difference is barely positive and I wouldn't back them to beat anyone on any given day. Sadly, it seems, that now goes for Reading too.

You correctly highlight that we (once again) resorted to hoof-ball. If we are a genuinely good side, and especially with Marek on the pitch, I would expect us to be able to play a passing game, and comfortably beat sides like Charlton.

We really 'don't like it up us'.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:25

Alan Partridge As for the pitch, I thought it looked the best I've seen it in yonks so i'm not sure that's quite the excuse it was.


I sit low down in the West Stan and the pitch looks OK from that low angle, but when they showed stuff on the big screen there appeared to be hardly any grass.


Reading have the odd bit of quality in their team but just too many 'triers'. I know they will run their socks off every week and you need a couple of them but we just haven't got enough players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet willing to pass it around with control and calm. Interesting Coppell said on the radio last night that we really need someone to boss things and we lack a captain basically. Wonder if he would look to the loan system again maybe?


A lot stems from not dominating midfield and not out-bossing 5 midfielders, I agree. And we don't have a character, now, a Mr Reading, someone who runs the show, always wants the ball. The nearest we might have (unless Tabb central could do it) would be Matejovsky playing with two CMs behind him, but that's not going to happen.

I really think though, that we will eventually have to go 4-5-1 or 5-4-1/5-3-2. As I said yesterday or the day before, we very rarely CONTROL games, even ones we win comfortably. At the moment it's hard to imagine this side getting 25 points in the Prem


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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:26

Alan Partridge On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.


I agree, but there is something about history, expectation, stadia, fans that makes a difference. But the point is, look at all these ex-Prem sides at the bottom. We ARE third.

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Re: Shane Long

by Alan Partridge » 11 Mar 2009 10:28

Snowball
Alan Partridge On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.


I agree, but there is something about history, expectation, stadia, fans that makes a difference. But the point is, look at all these ex-Prem sides at the bottom. We ARE third.


With the money the club has raked in from the last 2 years is there a case for saying we should be in the top 3?

I think what's scary is the teams down the bottom now were in or around the playoffs in their first season back down, it's after that first season that the slide tends to kick in making promotion almost a must this season for Reading.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:30

cmonurz I would agree with AP, I've seen little in this division this season to get excited about. Exceptions probably Reading's brief spell of 6 or 7 games where we looked head and shoulders the best side in the league, Wolves free-scoring start, with their two free-running wingers, and Swansea's brand of football. Otherwise, it's all pretty mediocre.


Hang on a moment. Isn't that the norm for MOST leagues?

The Prem has the top 4 (maybe 5 now, and Everton) then it's a mish-mash

Wolves, Birmingham (boring but they do have quality), Reading, Swansea, Cardiff and the usually thereabouts Sheffield United, maybe Burnley who have at times played superb football

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Re: Shane Long

by Royalee » 11 Mar 2009 10:36

I think this Championship's the weakest it has been for many a year - probably since the 90's.


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Re: Shane Long

by andrew1957 » 11 Mar 2009 10:43

I disagree about the low standard in the Championship this season. It is not lower but different. In truth I think the standard is higher than it was in 2005/6 and much more competitive than it was that season. Literally everyone can beat everyone else on their day BUT the type of football is completely different to what we watched in the PL the last two seasons.

The PL generally allows teams much more space but teams counter quickly on the break with lightning speed and can really hurt you - as happened to Reading all too often last season.

In the Championship it is much tighter and more physical with many teams playing a defensive 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 (almost).

It was just the same last season and many thought that West Brom, Stoke and Hull would all be relegated by Christmas but they are all playing differently in the top league and just possibly one or even two of them may survive.

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Re: Shane Long

by Royalee » 11 Mar 2009 10:44

Look at how many players each of those teams has had to sign.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:45

My original home town team has a list

Every season, whether we win 5-0 or lose 3-0 or get a 2-2 draw the opposition is ALWAYS "crap and we should be beating sh!te like this 8-0"

One season I kept a log and according to the list, ALL the teams were sh!te.

Now I know you could say any team below sixth in the Prem is sh!te, but can't we be realistic?

What, specifically, on the pitch, yesterday would make you say Charlton were "rubbish"?

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:46

andrew1957 I disagree about the low standard in the Championship this season. It is not lower but different. In truth I think the standard is higher than it was in 2005/6 and much more competitive than it was that season. Literally everyone can beat everyone else on their day BUT the type of football is completely different to what we watched in the PL the last two seasons.

The PL generally allows teams much more space but teams counter quickly on the break with lightning speed and can really hurt you - as happened to Reading all too often last season.

In the Championship it is much tighter and more physical with many teams playing a defensive 4-5-1 or 4-6-0 (almost).

It was just the same last season and many thought that West Brom, Stoke and Hull would all be relegated by Christmas but they are all playing differently in the top league and just possibly one or even two of them may survive.



EXCELLENT POST


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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:46

Royalee Look at how many players each of those teams has had to sign.


YOU MEAN LIKE CHELSEA?

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:48

This point just made about "different"...

How many sides played a defensive 4-5-1 in the 106 point season?

Is it simply that sides are getting better at not being thrashed?

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Re: Shane Long

by Royalee » 11 Mar 2009 10:50

Snowball
Royalee Look at how many players each of those teams has had to sign.


YOU MEAN LIKE CHELSEA?


No, I mean with Stoke having had to sign about 8 or 9 players in pre-season, Hull having to completely replace most of their team and West Brom, who only brought in about half a team still being in the relegation zone.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 11 Mar 2009 10:53

Royalee
Snowball
Royalee Look at how many players each of those teams has had to sign.


YOU MEAN LIKE CHELSEA?


No, I mean with Stoke having had to sign about 8 or 9 players in pre-season, Hull having to completely replace most of their team and West Brom, who only brought in about half a team still being in the relegation zone.




O-I-C


Agreed. On current form, this team (ours) would do a Derby, I think. We need a CB better than any we have, a VG dominant central midfielder, probably a top striker

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Re: Shane Long

by brendywendy » 11 Mar 2009 10:54

Royalee Look at how many players each of those teams has had to sign.


yes, and we will probably need to sign a few players too
but lest get promoted first before wringing our hands about next season

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Re: Shane Long

by Royal Rother » 11 Mar 2009 12:03

Snowball We need a CB better than any we have, a VG dominant central midfielder, probably a top striker


We have as good a CB as we could afford to buy - the manager won't play him though.

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Re: Shane Long

by Snowball » 12 Mar 2009 01:08

Sol Campbell is a free agent at the end of the season...

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