Shane Long

[Woodcote Royal]

On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.

We were wiping the floor with most sides in this division back in the autumn with a team containing many players with Prem experience. Are all those who did well in Prem now just Championship "triers"

Did all these players go down hill at the same time or, has Coppell's one dimensional, highly predictable 4-4-2 been sussed, with most of his attempts to solve the problem only succeeding in making matters worse?

"My midfield is being over run week after week by these teams who cheat by playing 4-5-1, so, left's drop Harper for Marek "

"Lets drop 10 goal Hunt for One goal Leroy and watch the goals start to flow"

"Let's drop Bikey, just like we did last season, that always makes us solid at the back"

"Hunty's playing cr@p and if he doesn't improve in the next 3 months, I may have to drop him"

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the players and I can see many not wanting to be here next season without a change at the top.......................Bikey in particular.

[Snowball]

Bikey is manager?

[Snowball]

It would have been interesting to see us either instruct the Wingers to tuck in
or play Noel RW in a 4-5-1, get a goal and force these sides to play

[Alan Partridge]

On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.

We were wiping the floor with most sides in this division back in the autumn with a team containing many players with Prem experience. Are all those who did well in Prem now just Championship "triers"

Did all these players go down hill at the same time or, has Coppell's one dimensional, highly predictable 4-4-2 been sussed, with most of his attempts to solve the problem only succeeding in making matters worse?

"My midfield is being over run week after week by these teams who cheat by playing 4-5-1, so, left's drop Harper for Marek "

"Lets drop 10 goal Hunt for One goal Leroy and watch the goals start to flow"

"Let's drop Bikey, just like we did last season, that always makes us solid at the back"

"Hunty's playing cr@p and if he doesn't improve in the next 3 months, I may have to drop him"

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the players and I can see many not wanting to be here next season without a change at the top.......................Bikey in particular.

Go through the team, how many are actually really good footballers? Real quality players.

Noel Hunt was injured after the Swansea game, Litahad just got 8 in 15 games for Norwich and scored against Watford, can you not see why Coppell picked him for a few games?

As for dropping Bikey, as Snowball kindly printed up it DID make us more solid at the back with Ivar and Doobs.

[brendywendy]

bikey got sent off, had a terrible game vs someone where he looked half asleep and very dodgy
and then he had an injury

didnt he?

i could be wrong

[Woodcote Royal]

On paper Snowball I agree with you, you look at the league and the 'names' in the division it's now littered with ex Prem sides and clubs who attract over 20,000 through the turnstiles regularly.

It still doesn't mean their actual team is any good.

We were wiping the floor with most sides in this division back in the autumn with a team containing many players with Prem experience. Are all those who did well in Prem now just Championship "triers"

Did all these players go down hill at the same time or, has Coppell's one dimensional, highly predictable 4-4-2 been sussed, with most of his attempts to solve the problem only succeeding in making matters worse?

"My midfield is being over run week after week by these teams who cheat by playing 4-5-1, so, left's drop Harper for Marek "

"Lets drop 10 goal Hunt for One goal Leroy and watch the goals start to flow"

"Let's drop Bikey, just like we did last season, that always makes us solid at the back"

"Hunty's playing cr@p and if he doesn't improve in the next 3 months, I may have to drop him"

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the players and I can see many not wanting to be here next season without a change at the top.......................Bikey in particular.

Go through the team, how many are actually really good footballers? Real quality players.

Noel Hunt was injured after the Swansea game, Litahad just got 8 in 15 games for Norwich and scored against Watford, can you not see why Coppell picked him for a few games?

As for dropping Bikey, as Snowball kindly printed up it DID make us more solid at the back with Ivar and Doobs.

You know our squad as well as me and we have more than enough players who didn't look out of place in the Prem for it simply to be not true that we lack quality at this level.

For example, we could play a central midfield of Cisse, Harper and Marek, all of whom have played in the top flight, and thus end our midfield deficiencies at a stroke but there's one reason this hasn't even been tried


We were at our best this season with Bikey at the back and also went down with him sat on the bench whilst Coppell's favourites leaked goals like a sieve. Now many of us are getting that deja vu feeling as our promotion hopes turn to dust with Coppell making all the same mistakes yet again.

Has Armstrong had any Prem experience? I'm only asking because he's been twice the player Shorey was last season but that didn't stop Coppell begging the latter to stay, and having to play Hunt at left back as he searched for a replacement who should have arrived at least 6 months earlier.

It's time for Coppell's apologists to remove the blinkers.

[Snowball]

Lita had just got 8 in 15 games for Norwich and scored against Watford, can you not see why Coppell picked him for a few games?

7 in 16 (one hat-trick so 4 in the other 15)

8 in 15 = 1 every 1.88 games, about 25 goals a season
7 in 16 = 1 every 2.29 games, about 20 goals a season
4 in 15 = 1 every 3.76 games. about 12 goals a season


I agree that Coppell had to see if he's score for us. I didn't think he would. Neither does Coppell now.

[Snowball]

I would love to see Cisse-Harper with Marek in front of them

[CMRoyal]

I think we should just go with exactly how many goals Lita got for Norwich in exactly how many games, otherwise the suspicion is that people are twisting the figures to suit the argument.

So, 7 in 16 it is?

[Hoop Blah]

From our current squad, who do I think performed well in the Premiership and would still have the capability to reproduce those performances 2 or 3 years on?

For me that list is pretty small, and I'm giving the benefit of doubt to a few....

Bikey
Rosenoir
Harper
Hunt
Doyle
Lita (at a push and he won't be with us for much longer anyway)

That's about it. Both Cisse and Matejovsky failed to deliver in the Prem. Matejovsky has the technique to perform at that level but he's yet to dominate a game at this level let alone the step up.

There are a few more of the new players that might be able to cope, but for those borderline players they need to be surrounded by better players to bring out the best in them and to cover their weaknesses. A team full of players who 'could' perform at that level at a push is going to struggle. For example, put someone like Armstrong or Rosenoir in a side full of proper Premiership players (like a Villa or Everton) and they'd do a lot better than playing them in the West Brom or Stoke sides.

[Woodcote Royal]

I think your assessment of Marek and Cisse is totally unfair but, even if I agreed with everything you've said above, it still shows that we don't lack for quality at this level.

What we lack is a manager with the tactical flexibility to get the best out of his team. After 20 years, Coppell's 4-4-2 has been sussed and he has to move on or move out.

Armstrong has played significantly better than Rosenior and Marek's international credentials alone make him a Premiership standard player but he isn't, and never will be, someone who can perform his defensive duties in a 2 man central midfield.........................especially when that midfield is being out numbered by it's opponents.

Cisse had some good performances in both midfield and defence in the Prem. At the time, he was playing in a team that was littered with Coppell's under performing favourites employing the same out dated tactics that are now failing yet again.

[Alan Partridge]

We were wiping the floor with most sides in this division back in the autumn with a team containing many players with Prem experience. Are all those who did well in Prem now just Championship "triers"

Did all these players go down hill at the same time or, has Coppell's one dimensional, highly predictable 4-4-2 been sussed, with most of his attempts to solve the problem only succeeding in making matters worse?

"My midfield is being over run week after week by these teams who cheat by playing 4-5-1, so, left's drop Harper for Marek "

"Lets drop 10 goal Hunt for One goal Leroy and watch the goals start to flow"

"Let's drop Bikey, just like we did last season, that always makes us solid at the back"

"Hunty's playing cr@p and if he doesn't improve in the next 3 months, I may have to drop him"

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the players and I can see many not wanting to be here next season without a change at the top.......................Bikey in particular.

Go through the team, how many are actually really good footballers? Real quality players.

Noel Hunt was injured after the Swansea game, Litahad just got 8 in 15 games for Norwich and scored against Watford, can you not see why Coppell picked him for a few games?

As for dropping Bikey, as Snowball kindly printed up it DID make us more solid at the back with Ivar and Doobs.

You know our squad as well as me and we have more than enough players who didn't look out of place in the Prem for it simply to be not true that we lack quality at this level.

For example, we could play a central midfield of Cisse, Harper and Marek, all of whom have played in the top flight, and thus end our midfield deficiencies at a stroke but there's one reason this hasn't even been tried


We were at our best this season with Bikey at the back and also went down with him sat on the bench whilst Coppell's favourites leaked goals like a sieve. Now many of us are getting that deja vu feeling as our promotion hopes turn to dust with Coppell making all the same mistakes yet again.

Has Armstrong had any Prem experience? I'm only asking because he's been twice the player Shorey was last season but that didn't stop Coppell begging the latter to stay, and having to play Hunt at left back as he searched for a replacement who should have arrived at least 6 months earlier.

It's time for Coppell's apologists to remove the blinkers.

Woodcote,anyone that knows me would tell you I am definitely not a 'Coppell apologist' but I could see why he picked Lita for an example. (aplogies snowball I thought it was 8 in 15,but 7 in 16 including a hattrick agains the league leaders, is still impressive) Noel Hunt was injured, Lita was on the back of a good loan spell, confidence up and then having scored against Watford I think he was the right choice at that time. It didn't work out in terms of goals, so now we are seeing Long have his chance.

2 things I would mention now is you say that 'Cisse, Marek and Harper have played in the Premiersip',that is correct. The next things is Cisse and MArek both only played in a side that went down. Good enough? Cisse for me is a centre back playing in central midfield, I believe he could make a decent defender but he lacks the all round game to play in midfield, especially in the Premiership.

You mention Armstrong who yes played around half a season for Sheff utd in the PRem after injury (they went down too) and again I would agree that he this season has been excellent whereas Shorey was poor last year. Shorey's only poor season here in around 6-7 years. The year before Shorey was outstanding, the year before Doyle was outstanding, Sidwell was outstanding, the year after they weren't, Sidwell had gone, we had no right side and we went down. That was the problem for me, we played the season without a decent right winger, we never replaced Steve Sidwell, and our Mr consistency's the likes of Doyle, Shorey, Ivar were all below par. Harper and Hunt to name two have always blown hot and cold, they will have spells were they look excellent, and spells where they look awful, if the rest of the team around you is consistant it doesn't matter too much, if it's not then you have serious problems.

With regards to Bikey, i would agree that he's not been played enough. However again people over look the run of shakey games he had which led to his dropping from the side, again he then picked up an injury. Last season we lost him because of the African Nations so that wasn't entirely Coppell's fault.

I think an over the top style enthuses has been put on 'if Bikey returns we'll be much better' The problem is and has been for the last 18months, the midfield. It's weak, it lacks drive, it lacks skill and it lacks creativity. I think Marek is a very good footballer but he has yet to produce a run of consistent games in a Reading shirt. We see little bits and pieces but he is yet to do it over 90 minutes. As much as it pains you to say it I think you know now how important Steve Sidwell was to this particular team. He may not have been some world beater, but he had fantastic fitness levels, he could pass, he could tackle, he was excellent in both boxes and woud chip in vital goals. He has never been replaced.

[Hoop Blah]

I agree on Coppell's apparent reluctance to switch things around, and on Matejovsky's suitability for our 4-4-2, I can only assume he was bought to play in the Premiership in a more packed midfield which Coppell won't do in this division.

Can't agree on Cisse though. He looked out of his depth last season apart from the one game at centre back against Utd, but giving him the benefit of doubt he could have the quality to perform at that level. He hasn't really shone for me this year though, and I think his weaknesses would get exposed in the Premiership as he struggles against midfields that move the ball quickly around him.

[bishbosh92]

Long has proved himself recently and i hope that this sat it will be Long and Kitson as our starting 2 upfront!!

but coppel wont drop Doyle so i have a bad feeling he might end up on the bench

[bishbosh92]

bikey got sent off, had a terrible game vs someone where he looked half asleep and very dodgy
and then he had an injury

didnt he?

i could be wrong

Correct Cardiff away he was sent of and got injured hasnt been back in the first team since!

[CMRoyal]

bikey got sent off, had a terrible game vs someone where he looked half asleep and very dodgy
and then he had an injury

didnt he?

i could be wrong

Correct Cardiff away he was sent of and got injured hasnt been back in the first team since!

He was very poor in the preceding game against Saints.

[bishbosh92]

bikey got sent off, had a terrible game vs someone where he looked half asleep and very dodgy
and then he had an injury

didnt he?

i could be wrong

Correct Cardiff away he was sent of and got injured hasnt been back in the first team since!

He was very poor in the preceding game against Saints.

True but most of the team was poor at Home at Saints

[Woodcote Royal]

I never had you down as a Coppell apologist, AP, but now I'm starting to wonder

Your long list of failure above, and the poor decisions that led to them over the last 2 seasons have one common denominator..................Steve Coppell.

Even I can see why he decided to give Leroy another chance but wasting 3 games with it clearly not working was unforgivable and typical of the Coppell stubboness has that has cost us very dearly over the last 2 seasons.

Where we can agree regards Shorey is that he was outstanding in 2006-7. However, he was dreadful last season but never got dropped because our manager elected not to even provide cover for a player who should have had "get me out of here!!" stamped on his forehead. Again, there was no excuse for this and it was a huge factor in our totally avoidable relegation....................Coppell's apologists, however, disagree.

If you cite the fact we were relegated last season as proof that Cisse and Marek weren't good enough, where does that leave those who also played in the season where we finished 8th.....................only a Coppell apologist would attempt to claim that the poor season was all down to the newcomers in the squad.

We go to Portsmouth and a back four of Murty, Duberry, Ingimarrson and Shorey let in 7 and, apparently, this was Gunnarsson's fault It couldn't have been that the back four Coppell picked had no pace whatsoever and that to play the same defense the following week was not only utterly ridiculous, but also the first sign that Bikey was being totally under valued despite earlier performances that had been far superior to anything we had seen from Ivar or Doobs.

I'm delighted that Long has shown why the Lita>Long mantra was never anything more than unjustified hero worship but, as someone else implied recently, personnel is now becoming secondary to tactics, formation and strategy.

Either, Coppell sees the light in the very near future or, we start afresh next season with a new manager and a squad genuinely short on quality desperately trying to return to the promised land before the parachute payments run out....................I can't say I'm looking forward to what I suspect is going to happen.

[CMRoyal]

Correct Cardiff away he was sent of and got injured hasnt been back in the first team since!

He was very poor in the preceding game against Saints.

True but most of the team was poor at Home at Saints

Agreed, but it seems that the Bikey pendulum's swinging a bit too far into the pro camp at the moment, and we need to remember that he was not in the best of form leading up to his suspension. I still think we miss Ivar more than many of us care to admit.

[loyalroyal4life]

I would love to see Cisse-Harper with Marek in front of them

continue dreaming snow