Shane Long

[Snowball]

Not sure about the confidence on 20 goals, but otherwise spot on.

Shane Long is a story of tragedy. A player who could have been such a big player now, had he got regular first team football on loan in any of the last 3 seasons. As it is he's a player who is still struggling to get off the nearly pile and could never manage it.

Disagree. He "made it" by any normal criteria last season.

On just 13 starts he was our third top scorer in the league with 9 goals just behind Noel's 11.

27 starts and 10 sub appearances 11 League goals Noel Hunt
11 starts and 26 sub appearances 09 League goals Shane


He scored one goal for every 178 minutes on the pitch better than any other player in the club. That's not "the odd goal as a sub" but 9 goals, many of the very important goals


Had he played all 48 games, that is (theoretically) 36 league goals. Had he score just 18 goals (playing 48 games) he would have been up there with the best in the league

[Southbank Old Boy]

I think what Ian means by making it is becoming a proper first team regular, not a backup forward who fills in when others are out injured

He still doesnt do it for me, but I do agree with you for once that he doesnt really suit any of the forward roles in a 4-5-1 come 4-3-3

[Royal Rother]

Or alternatively. He's just a bit sh1t...

Oh look, Knobbo's back.

[Yorkshire Royal]

Oh look. That silly, self righteous, arrogant, full of himself, self assured prick is still here..

Thought I might pop in to see how you nobbers were preparing for the new season. I was actually going to back us to win the league until Shane was given the No. 9 shirt... Hardly says much for our plans.. Unless it's some kind of reverse physchology thing to our opposition.

Still can't see Shane starting. Unless he starts blowing BR like he did SC - only possible reason how he was still picked last year.

[Royal Rother]

Some things never change.

Yorkshire Royal - what a supporter, what a guy.

[Yorkshire Royal]

Stop your flirting, you cute little keyboard warrior...

Some things never change..

Royal Rother - what a bore...

[Platypuss]

"Appearances" is a false number.

..unless it suits my argument.

Wow, and it only took 2 further pages.

On just 13 starts he was our third top scorer in the league with 9 goals just behind Noel's 11.

[Snowball]

"Appearances" is a false number.

..unless it suits my argument.

Wow, and it only took 2 further pages.

On just 13 starts he was our third top scorer in the league with 9 goals just behind Noel's 11.

What's wrong with you Platypussy? I've posted both Shanes STARTS AND total minutes on the pitch..


Last season he was top goalscorer in terms of goals per start
Last season he was top goalscorer in terms of goals per minutes on the pitch

And "appearances" can be an extremely false statistic. A few seasons ago Arsenal engineered "appearances" for Keown to get a Premiership winners medal. He was running out for a minute most games.

Personally I think anything less than ten minutes shouldn't count as an appearance at all. Players sometimes get brought on in injury time just to eat up seconds. They don't get to touch a ball and yet it's an "appearance".

[Hoop Blah]

Apparently it only takes a second to score a goal though!

[Platypuss]

What's wrong with you Platypussy?

Gosh, I'm hurt.

[Huntley & Palmer]

And "appearances" can be an extremely false statistic.

Equally applicable to minutes on the pitch to be honest

[Plymouth_Royal]

What's wrong with you Platypussy? I've posted both Shanes STARTS AND total minutes on the pitch..


Last season he was top goalscorer in terms of goals per start
Last season he was top goalscorer in terms of goals per minutes on the pitch

And "appearances" can be an extremely false statistic. A few seasons ago Arsenal engineered "appearances" for Keown to get a Premiership winners medal. He was running out for a minute most games.

Personally I think anything less than ten minutes shouldn't count as an appearance at all. Players sometimes get brought on in injury time just to eat up seconds. They don't get to touch a ball and yet it's an "appearance".

I agree. From your research you've clearly shown why the manager (WHO IS WORKING EVERY DAY WITH THE PLAYER) picked long last season and hopefully this season. The stats you've come up with are probably very similar to the ones that the reading coaching staff have on each player too. There's a lot to look at when you make a decision on a player. If you look at Michael Owen's transfer to man utd, many fans were sceptical of this as he's been injury prone, and not scoring as many as he has done in the past. BUT, if you look at his brochure you will see some stats that will make you think twice. He played attacking midfield last season, he only started 18 games and scored 8 goals, he had a shot to goal ratio of 27:8 whereas Rooney had 84:12. Anyway, I think a few hobnobbers should look at a more statistical perspective with a bit more openness because it is these figures which show why long is still here. Yes, there are some things that stats can't show like his touch and his decision making, but it did improve last season and from what was said yesterday, he is working on it everyday.
I must admit though that I think this is his last season in terms of him proving himself because I believe BR has a much needed ruthless streak in him, and if Long wont step up to the plate he will be sold in January or released in the summer.

[Ian Royal]

Players get picked on performance and what they show in training. Not goals per minute statistics

[CMRoyal]

I'm one of those people who was encouraged by Long's improvement last season but who remain sceptical that he'll ever become "another Doyle" - it's very hard to learn touch, and we are all limited in our mental capacities (yes, even esteemed HNAers) so his decision-making will not improve exponentially. I have no doubt he'll be useful for us again next season though, and maybe BR will be able to squeeze out further improvement. What is a worry is all this extra-curricular physical activity Longy's been doing. He's already physical enough, in fact he can often be too physical, to an irritating degree.

[Royal Rother]

Players get picked on performance and what they show in training. Not goals per minute statistics

GPM stats are a very relevant factor in assessing a striker's performance.

[Ian Royal]

Players get picked on performance and what they show in training. Not goals per minute statistics

GPM stats are a very relevant factor in assessing a striker's performance.

Yes they are, but performance on the pitch and training are likely to be weighted higher in the decision making process.

The point being, that Long gets picked because of what he does in training, how he performs and contributes to the team as a whole on the pitch. Goals / minute or game will be something that is a part of the overall contribution on the pitch.

He doesn't get picked solely because, according to my nemisis, he has the best goals to minutes ratio, nor because he blows Coppell/Rodgers/Madejski/Hammond.

[Hoop Blah]

Players get picked on performance and what they show in training. Not goals per minute statistics

GPM stats are a very relevant factor in assessing a striker's performance.

Not really, not in the way that's been suggested.

The goals are a by product of how the team and the individual play and how good they actually are. Doyle didn't suddenly become a bad player or perform badly because his goals dried up at times (although at times his performances weren't as good of course) but his 'GPM' certainly wasn't in danger of getting him dropped because he remained our best forward.

[Royal Rother]

I know I'm nitpicking here but I would suggest that GPM is probably the highest factor of weighting a striker's on pitch performance.

Long's 1st touch could be the worst in the squad but if he gets in the right place and bundles the ball over the line or heads brilliantly (a la Trevor Senior) so he scores a goal a game, he'll get picked every week.

[Ian Royal]

I know I'm nitpicking here but I would suggest that GPM is probably the highest factor of weighting a striker's on pitch performance.

Long's 1st touch could be the worst in the squad but if he gets in the right place and bundles the ball over the line or heads brilliantly (a la Trevor Senior) so he scores a goal a game, he'll get picked every week.

At that sort of extreme, then yes, I guess it does take over. But it is all a balancing act where everything is considered by a human being. Which means it is very difficult to really quantify the decision. We are not computers and gut feeling, bias and perception figure heavily.

Probably why HNA has so many arguements about it, becaue everyone weights different aspects slightly differently and then often polarise the argument to make their version seem the most obvious.

[Royal Rother]

Players get picked on performance and what they show in training. Not goals per minute statistics

GPM stats are a very relevant factor in assessing a striker's performance.

Not really, not in the way that's been suggested.

I'm not suggesting anything other than a the plain simple fact that Goals Per Minute are a very relevant factor in assessing a striker's performance in a football team.

How anyone can find a way to deny that is quite beyond me.