do you really believe England can win the World cup

[Hoop Blah]

Why don't you guys start a "let's have a pop at Ireland" thread and be done with it.

Yeah much better than the 'lets have a pop at England' thread this was presumably intended as.

[Ark Royal]

No.

Next.

[Thaumagurist*]

i said they have a history of failure which is just a fact,

Er, Gus, last time I looked England had won a world cup and Ireland have not. Therefore I'd say Ireland are bigger failures.

As for your question, yes, I believe that England will one day win the world cup again, hopefully sometime in my lifetime.

[Starfish]

i said they have a history of failure which is just a fact,

Therefore I'd say Ireland are bigger failures.

I bite.

It's all about expectations really. As gus has already pointed out, RoI have qualified for 3 of the last 5 WCs. For a nation of our size and (footballing) history, this represents considerable success. We don't expect to win the WC, or even qualify, but reaching the Q-F of a WC and making it to the knock out stages of the 3 WCs we have reached cannot be termed failure, all facts considered.

In my lifetime, England have been 'expected' to win (or come close to winning) the WC or EC and have not reached the final. I would not say England are 'failures' as such but if you think of what has been expected of them (in England, not in Germany, for example), then England have failed to live up to (often exaggerated) expectations. Ireland haven't. We expect nothing and nothing is expected of us - we've done all right.

Incidentally, no one I know in Germany expects them to win in South Africa next year. Beaten in the final of the EC 1-0 by Spain, beaten by eventual winners Italy in ET in 2006 and with a history of getting there or thereabouts, expectations here are low. They'll do well though.

[FiNeRaIn]

i said they have a history of failure which is just a fact,

Therefore I'd say Ireland are bigger failures.

I bite.

It's all about expectations really. As gus has already pointed out, RoI have qualified for 3 of the last 5 WCs. For a nation of our size and (footballing) history, this represents considerable success. We don't expect to win the WC, or even qualify, but reaching the Q-F of a WC and making it to the knock out stages of the 3 WCs we have reached cannot be termed failure, all facts considered.
.

So how do croatia manage it? Holland and portugal are not much bigger either.

[Starfish]

So how do croatia manage it? Holland and portugal are not much bigger either.

Because they're better at football than we are.

I am not claiming that 'we have done particularly well for a small nation' - we were always slightly worse than average, and this is precisely my point. History has told Ireland to expect nothing - when we have done better than expected, it's a successful run for us. If we fail to qualify for the next 4-5 WCs (and that's very very possible), it will (then) be considered to be failure (because we have been more 'successful' over the past 20 years and expectations are higher than previously).

And as gus pointed out, in Ireland Gaelic Football, Hurling & Rugby are much bigger spectator sports (in terms of punters paying to go through turnstiles) than 'soccer' (sorry). And we'd beat Croatia, Portugal & The Netherlands (throw in Belgium & Norway if you like) in Gaelic Football, Hurling or Rugby any day of the week.

[Wax Jacket]

Stephen Hunt's from Portlaoise? that explains a lot

[papereyes]

So how do croatia manage it? Holland and portugal are not much bigger either.

Better coaching of youngsters - they really understand how much you can improve things like touch and control.

Second, Croatia's population is about 4 million, Portugal 11 million and Holland pushing 20. Just to put the things into perspective. I think Croatia, at least, has quite a large dispersed population throughout Europe but it won't catch up with the other two.

[Starfish]

Stephen Hunt's from Portlaoise? that explains a lot

When I think of Portlaoise, I just think of the prison and having had that thought, I looked it up on Wiki. Here's a grim tale ...

"In May 2007, an inmate named John Daly, who was serving 9 years for Armed Robbery called an RTÉ radio show called liveline.[3] He called in to defend himself against Sunday World crime journalist Paul Williams who was speaking on the radio show at the time. Daly was on air for a few minutes before Prison Guards took the phone off him and ended the conversation.
This phone call resulted in a major clampdown in all Irish Prisons and over 1,300 pieces of contraband being confiscated. Items confiscated in the cell by cell searches included numerous mobile phones, plasma televisions and even a budgie.
John Daly received many death threats from fellow inmates after calling the show and as a result was transferred to other prisons twice before his release in October 2007. A few weeks after he was released, he was murdered in Finglas after a night out."

[Wax Jacket]

Stephen Hunt's from Portlaoise? that explains a lot

When I think of Portlaoise, I just think of the prison and having had that thought, I looked it up on Wiki. Here's a grim tale ...

"In May 2007, an inmate named John Daly, who was serving 9 years for Armed Robbery called an RTÉ radio show called liveline.[3] He called in to defend himself against Sunday World crime journalist Paul Williams who was speaking on the radio show at the time. Daly was on air for a few minutes before Prison Guards took the phone off him and ended the conversation.
This phone call resulted in a major clampdown in all Irish Prisons and over 1,300 pieces of contraband being confiscated. Items confiscated in the cell by cell searches included numerous mobile phones, plasma televisions and even a budgie.
John Daly received many death threats from fellow inmates after calling the show and as a result was transferred to other prisons twice before his release in October 2007. A few weeks after he was released, he was murdered in Finglas after a night out."

my cousin's married to a guy from the place. He's Paul John, numbered amongst his brothers are Paul, John, John Bosco and Bosco

[Starfish]

my cousin's married to a guy from the place. He's Paul John, numbered amongst his brothers are Paul, John, John Bosco and Bosco

LOL. Just the sort of family you'd want to be marrying into.

Bosco is a nightmare name for an Irish person though.

From 1980s children's TV, I give you ... well, Bosco.

[rabidbee]

In my lifetime, England have been 'expected' to win (or come close to winning) the WC or EC and have not reached the final.

Just out of curiosity, as somebody who has lived in various places on the continent, just how credibly are England viewed, given that we have a history of failure, and few quality players? I have always presumed it is only the English press that goes unrealistically mad for England each competition.

However, I'd dispute the word "failure". In my memory, we've always been ranked somewhere either side of tenth - don't know if there's an easy way to track our moves up and down the ranking system. And we have often reached at least the QFs, and ocassionally even the SFs, of those competitions for which we've qualified. Seems to be that we usually punch at around our weight, one of the eight best teams in the world. I can live with that.

[Starfish]

In my lifetime, England have been 'expected' to win (or come close to winning) the WC or EC and have not reached the final.

Just out of curiosity, as somebody who has lived in various places on the continent, just how credibly are England viewed, given that we have a history of failure, and few quality players? I have always presumed it is only the English press that goes unrealistically mad for England each competition.

However, I'd dispute the word "failure". In my memory, we've always been ranked somewhere either side of tenth - don't know if there's an easy way to track our moves up and down the ranking system. And we have often reached at least the QFs, and ocassionally even the SFs, of those competitions for which we've qualified. Seems to be that we usually punch at around our weight, one of the eight best teams in the world. I can live with that.

In general, I find that England are 'feared' - something is expected of them and potentially, it is thought that they could win or come very close to winning something. The Germans thought it was hilarious that England didn't qualify for the last EC but seem to believe that, despite Charleroi & Munich, Germany will beat England 'when it really matters', a bit like they expect to lose to Italy - simply because they always do. But when Germans think about who might stop them from winning the WC, they think of Italy (as I said), Spain (now), Brazil and maybe somebody like Argentina or France. Purely because of history. Portugal, The Netherlands or England are teams they might lose to but who they would be surprised to see go on to win the whole thing (Spain were somewhere below both of these groups before 2008).

Ireland? - "Do you really have a football team?"

[papereyes]

It might also help that all 3 of those countries have strong domestic leagues (relative to Ireland at least) and football is by far the number 1 sport (not so clear cut in ROI I imagine).

Agreed on the second point (although I'm sure they have their regional nuances - Handball is big in Croatia and they've won the WC in that recently) but in terms of the leagues - Croatia's isn't strong and the majority of its players play abroad. Certainly the starting XI are all based abroad.

[Ian Royal]

So thoughts in Italy and Germany are prety similar to those of anyone with more than half a brain over here then.

We will usually threaten, but don't have the quality to get past more than 1 top team and barring a fantastically flukey draw, we'd need to beat 2-3 to win a major tournament.

[irishroyal81]

In my lifetime, England have been 'expected' to win (or come close to winning) the WC or EC and have not reached the final.

Just out of curiosity, as somebody who has lived in various places on the continent, just how credibly are England viewed, given that we have a history of failure, and few quality players? I have always presumed it is only the English press that goes unrealistically mad for England each competition.

However, I'd dispute the word "failure". In my memory, we've always been ranked somewhere either side of tenth - don't know if there's an easy way to track our moves up and down the ranking system. And we have often reached at least the QFs, and ocassionally even the SFs, of those competitions for which we've qualified. Seems to be that we usually punch at around our weight, one of the eight best teams in the world. I can live with that.

In general, I find that England are 'feared' - something is expected of them and potentially, it is thought that they could win or come very close to winning something. The Germans thought it was hilarious that England didn't qualify for the last EC but seem to believe that, despite Charleroi & Munich, Germany will beat England 'when it really matters', a bit like they expect to lose to Italy - simply because they always do. But when Germans think about who might stop them from winning the WC, they think of Italy (as I said), Spain (now), Brazil and maybe somebody like Argentina or France. Purely because of history. Portugal, The Netherlands or England are teams they might lose to but who they would be surprised to see go on to win the whole thing (Spain were somewhere below both of these groups before 2008).

Ireland? - "Do you really have a football team?"

Ireland - Course Ireland has a football team. One of the things about Ireland is that we always have a 'team'. We never have a 'team of individuals'.

i dont really know why this has turned into a slag ireland thread but looking through the starting eleven of the last Irish Game Im pretty sure Given, Duff & Keane would all have numerous English Caps if they were English.

Im not for a minute suggesting that Ireland are on a par with England but it would have been interesting to see England in a group of Italy and Bulgaria and to see how they would have fared.

BTW since when do Reading Fans have a go at Ireland? Their recent success has being built apon an Irish contingent. Short memories.

[LUX]

good thread (I mean it)

HNA can be very anti-Irish and that really gets on my tits. Probably a reflection of the UK in general, alas, although I know the feeling can be mutual.

But they are fair game on this thread, because Gus (despite going on to make many fair points, as do the other Irish posters) was provocative and should be able to take jokes about Clinton Morrison etc in return. This is a football banter thread.

ps I'd love England to win the WC. But this team is short of quality forwards (Defoe, Heskey, Crouch, Carlton Cole ffs) and, if Gerrard/Ferdinand are injured or suspended we have not got the strength to replace them at World Cup QF and beyond level.