Value on Long's Head?

[Millsy]

Doyle seems to have been a bit gimped by going to Wolves who've struggled this season.

Exactly. My thoughts on Doyle's transfer was that he went to the wrong club.

Insert almost any decent ex-Reading player instead of Doyle and the above will be valid.

Which begs the question... do we produce amazing players per se, or do we produce the "right conditions"?

[Mr Angry]

Doyle seems to have been a bit gimped by going to Wolves who've struggled this season.

Exactly. My thoughts on Doyle's transfer was that he went to the wrong club.

Insert almost any decent ex-Reading player instead of Doyle and the above will be valid.

Which begs the question... do we produce amazing players per se, or do we produce the "right conditions"?

This is, imho, the 3rd Reading team where the sum of the parts has been greater than the individuals within it; as a result, we may well see individuals who we think of as being brilliant go on from Reading in the future and not have as good a time at another club, and be seen as a "failure" by the fans of the club they go to.

[Snowball]

The one player I think will do BETTER at a bigger club is Shane.

Not because I'm a fan but because his pace and power can be awesome
and with great service he could look amazing.

I think he would mostly be played right of a 433 and get 10-14 goals a season in the Prem.



At the moment he does well off through balls from Hunt, Karacan, Harte, Howard

Imagine through balls from Gerard, Nani, Fabregas, Nasri, Wilshire, Parker, Lampard, Scoles, Giggs, Ya-Ya, Sidwell,
or any number of class Premiership midfield generals.

[SCIAG]

Well well well, Snowball. Long has now only scored once in six matches. In this form, he'd only score 7.6666... goals a season. That would practically cancel out all Sekou Baradji's good work. Still, I hope you see the folly of your ways. I've called three players rubbish when they were in good form- Long, Howard and Lita- and I was right about all three

[Snowball]

Well well well, Snowball. Long has now only scored once in six matches. In this form, he'd only score 7.6666... goals a season. That would practically cancel out all Sekou Baradji's good work. Still, I hope you see the folly of your ways. I've called three players rubbish when they were in good form- Long, Howard and Lita- and I was right about all three

Yeah Long is rubbish. Twenty-six goals a season rubbish with games still to go.

He got yet another assists today, for Hunt's goal

That's his eleventh assist for RFC this season to go with his 23 goals for the club.

Directly involved in 37 of our 80 goals, (inc 3 penalties won by Shane and scored by Harte)

[SCIAG]

You may not have noticed, but I was parodying you.

[Maguire]

Did Long even touch the ball today? Sell him ASAP whilst his stock is high before everyone realises the truth

[Hoop Blah]

Are we still debating how much Long will be worth?

The club and Long's people will have agreed the value on his head when he signed his new contact towards the end of last year. That will be the value on his head.

How much is he worth and will that be more or less than the figure they agreed? I'd say he's still only worth £4-5m tops, even with the run of form he's shown since Christmas. We may have driven a hard bargain and got that kind of figure agreed, possibly even higher when you look at how good a job Hammond has done in this area over the last couple of years, but it's very unlikely anyone would pay more considering he's only really proved he can score in the Championship.

His general play has come on in leaps and bounds but I still don't think he's close to being as good a player as Doyle is or was for us. Long is more important to us now than Doyle ever was because he's carrying our attack (along with Kebe) whereas Doyle was always one of a number of potent threats in the squad. Doyle is still the more complete, subtle and accomplished player though.

[Snowball]

Are we still debating how much Long will be worth?

The club and Long's people will have agreed the value on his head when he signed his new contact towards the end of last year. That will be the value on his head.

How much is he worth and will that be more or less than the figure they agreed? I'd say he's still only worth £4-5m tops, even with the run of form he's shown since Christmas. We may have driven a hard bargain and got that kind of figure agreed, possibly even higher when you look at how good a job Hammond has done in this area over the last couple of years, but it's very unlikely anyone would pay more considering he's only really proved he can score in the Championship.

His general play has come on in leaps and bounds but I still don't think he's close to being as good a player as Doyle is or was for us. Long is more important to us now than Doyle ever was because he's carrying our attack (along with Kebe) whereas Doyle was always one of a number of potent threats in the squad. Doyle is still the more complete, subtle and accomplished player though.

16 (34) = 21.7 games for 5 goals in the Premiership (aged 19-20) and a BETTER hit rate than Doyle's overall Premiership strike rate

In our relegation year Doyle got 6 in 34 (2) 34.3 Games while Long had the much better rate of 3 in 7 (22) = 10.7 Games

He's scored plenty more FA Cup Goals against Premiership opposition.I think it;s now a total of 11 or 12 versus Premiership opposition, Liverpool (twice) Villa (twice) Burnley, WBA...

Given that he has improved MASSIVELY since 2006-8, it would be a shock to see him not be better than 1 in 3.

[Hoop Blah]

Scoring goals against Premier League teams in the FA Cup is quite different to scoring against them week in week out in the league. I don't doubt that Long can do a decent job for a mid/lower Premier League team but I don't think you can compare his cup exploits with league games.

Doyle's contribution to a struggling and workman like Wolves side is much more than his goals and again isn't comparable to Longs contribution (largely) as a sub for us.

Long gets a lot of millage out of running the channels and forcing mistakes out of defenders. His goals (and good passages of play) aren't generally products of good technique and intelligence but more effort and power. Personally I think the high you go the less you can rely on opposition mistakes and the more you need to be technically and mentally a better player.

It all boils down to how a team plays and the role they need a player to perform in that team. For some teams Long may be a better answer than Doyle, and in many teams Long may score more goals but that doesn't mean he's a better player than Doyle who has more to his game than Long (IMO).

[brendywendy]

imo that used to be true, but its getting closer and closer.

[Hoop Blah]

imo that used to be true, but its getting closer and closer.

Totally agree. Long has improved no end this season.

[Snowball]

and he's still young at just 24, younger, many say, in football terms

[BR2]

FWIW I think Doyle will move on to a bigger club than Wolves (he is very well thought of within the Prem managerial world and don't be surprised if it is a top 6 club).
Shane may well then go to Wolves even if they get relegated at a fee of around £3 million.
The idea that Snowball put forward about his love child going to one of the better clubs is almost laughable if it weren't so sad (they say love is blind and this is a very good example).
Presumably when Long moves on and we sign a proper left-back next season Snowball will have nothing to post about especially as a Reading follower of such a short time he will probably start posting elsewhere....yippee.

[Snowball]

FWIW I think Doyle will move on to a bigger club than Wolves (he is very well thought of within the Prem managerial world and don't be surprised if it is a top 6 club).
Shane may well then go to Wolves even if they get relegated at a fee of around £3 million.

If his sell clause is only 3M I'll be shocked.

The idea that Snowball put forward about his love child going to one of the better clubs is almost laughable if it weren't so sad .

Er, when did I say that?

[KC Royal]

Well well well, Snowball. Long has now only scored once in six matches. In this form, he'd only score 7.6666... goals a season. That would practically cancel out all Sekou Baradji's good work. Still, I hope you see the folly of your ways. I've called three players rubbish when they were in good form- Long, Howard and Lita- and I was right about all three

Yeah Long is rubbish. Twenty-six goals a season rubbish with games still to go.

He got yet another assists today, for Hunt's goal

That's his eleventh assist for RFC this season to go with his 23 goals for the club.

Directly involved in 37 of our 80 goals, (inc 3 penalties won by Shane and scored by Harte)

In the programme yesterday they had Long down as 21 assists. Is this a misprint, or is it including the penalties he's won as well?

[BR2]

FWIW I think Doyle will move on to a bigger club than Wolves (he is very well thought of within the Prem managerial world and don't be surprised if it is a top 6 club).
Shane may well then go to Wolves even if they get relegated at a fee of around £3 million.

If his sell clause is only 3M I'll be shocked.

The idea that Snowball put forward about his love child going to one of the better clubs is almost laughable if it weren't so sad .

Er, when did I say that?

Your conjecture towards the top of this page.

[Snowball]

You mean mentioning midfield players from big clubs, and others?

How many midfielders from the bottom half of the Prem would easily get into our midfield?

If I think "Shane will go to a top-six side" I'll SAY it.

Actually, I think he'll by=pass the Prem and go straight to Barcelona

[Victor Meldrew]

You mean mentioning midfield players from big clubs, and others?

How many midfielders from the bottom half of the Prem would easily get into our midfield?

If I think "Shane will go to a top-six side" I'll SAY it.

Actually, I think he'll by=pass the Prem and go straight to Barcelona

Regarding midfielders I would say all of them.

[Svlad Cjelli]

If it helps set a benchmark, Newcastle are reported to be signing Watford's Danny Graham for £2.5M.