CeLOLtic

[St Pauli]

So when it's 'Ten German Bombers' its football banter but when its 'Celtic symphony' its sectarian bigotry?

I don't dislike 'Ten German Bombers' personally and its actually sung quite a lot by St Pauli fans to wind up Nazis in Germany. I just don't see why everyone gets so worked up about Celtic when fans all over the country sing really offensive stuff all the time.

I never said anything about 'Ten German Bombers' a song I actually find kind of annoying.

IRA stuff is unforgivable considering in the very recent past they murdered scores of innocent civilians and it's sung in a context of hatred unrelated to football.

I was using TGB as an example of an 'offensive' song that gets sung but noone's really bothered about it.

To be a pedant the IRA haven't actually killed any innocent civilians recently, the PIRA and the splinter groups have. I know that the difference doesn't mean much to us here, but the difference is significant in Ireland and among Celtic supporters (and the Queen now apparently), hence my argument that part of it at least is misunderstanding.

[Stuka]

I agree there is a historical difference between the IRA of 1920's and the incarnations post 1969 but from what I understand of the Celtic song book the latter are referred too just as much. Admittedly I haven't studied all of their hate-filled lyrics to any substantial level but I've seen Celtic play live here in London, and know from having seen it reported they sing about willing players to be murdered (eg Nacho Novo) chanting CIRA, Real IRA etc. And even to chant "Ooh Ahh Up the 'Ra clearly not about the 1920's, to my ears anyway, if it is then it's ambiguous.

I'm sure you're a good guy, and we both love the great team that is Reading FC. Forgetting what England or Rangers fans sing for a second, why do you try and excuse such actions as the Celtic fans?

[FiNeRaIn]

Chaos at parkhead tonight, apparently the key for the trophy cabinet is in Tommy Burns' pocket

I genuinely LOLd at that!

Not a fan of burns jokes tbh, I know there is no particularly malice in that from BF but it irks a lot of Rangers fans.

[St Pauli]

I agree there is a historical difference between the IRA of 1920's and the incarnations post 1969 but from what I understand of the Celtic song book the latter are referred too just as much. Admittedly I haven't studied all of their hate-filled lyrics to any substantial level but I've seen Celtic play live here in London, and know from having seen it reported they sing about willing players to be murdered (eg Nacho Novo) chanting CIRA, Real IRA etc. And even to chant "Ooh Ahh Up the 'Ra clearly not about the 1920's, to my ears anyway, if it is then it's ambiguous.

I'm sure you're a good guy, and we both love the great team that is Reading FC. Forgetting what England or Rangers fans sing for a second, why do you try and excuse such actions as the Celtic fans?

Well firstly it's my perception that Celtic chants seem to get a lot more attention from English fans then any other offensive chants, for obvious reasons, but also that there is a genuine problem with English people who don't understand the difference between the IRA and the PIRA and I do think this colours the whole debate. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone (southern) Irish who didn't support the 20's IRA or indeed didn't know someone who fought in it. The PIRA is a very different kettle of fish.

Lastly I think everyone takes all the chants far too seriously when it comes to Old Firm stuff. I find racist chants far worse then anything that the Old Firm come out with. And the fact thats its a recent conflict shouldn't matter that much. Blades and Forest have had a thing going since the miners strike when it comes to chants, and though not quite on the level of the troubles it was bitter and people were killed on both sides. But people still put it down to football chants and not much else.

Maybe it's easier as I'm English but I really don't see the point in getting that worked up about what are at the end of the day football chants.

[Big Foot]

Chaos at parkhead tonight, apparently the key for the trophy cabinet is in Tommy Burns' pocket

I genuinely LOLd at that!

Not a fan of burns jokes tbh, I know there is no particularly malice in that from BF but it irks a lot of Rangers fans.

Fvck him

[FiNeRaIn]

I agree there is a historical difference between the IRA of 1920's and the incarnations post 1969 but from what I understand of the Celtic song book the latter are referred too just as much. Admittedly I haven't studied all of their hate-filled lyrics to any substantial level but I've seen Celtic play live here in London, and know from having seen it reported they sing about willing players to be murdered (eg Nacho Novo) chanting CIRA, Real IRA etc. And even to chant "Ooh Ahh Up the 'Ra clearly not about the 1920's, to my ears anyway, if it is then it's ambiguous.

I'm sure you're a good guy, and we both love the great team that is Reading FC. Forgetting what England or Rangers fans sing for a second, why do you try and excuse such actions as the Celtic fans?

Well firstly it's my perception that Celtic chants seem to get a lot more attention from English fans then any other offensive chants, for obvious reasons, but also that there is a genuine problem with English people who don't understand the difference between the IRA and the PIRA and I do think this colours the whole debate. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone (southern) Irish who didn't support the 20's IRA or indeed didn't know someone who fought in it. The PIRA is a very different kettle of fish.

Lastly I think everyone takes all the chants far too seriously when it comes to Old Firm stuff. I find racist chants far worse then anything that the Old Firm come out with. And the fact thats its a recent conflict shouldn't matter that much. Blades and Forest have had a thing going since the miners strike when it comes to chants, and though not quite on the level of the troubles it was bitter and people were killed on both sides. But people still put it down to football chants and not much else.

Maybe it's easier as I'm English but I really don't see the point in getting that worked up about what are at the end of the day football chants.

The celtic fans chant is " PI PI PIRA". So yeah...they aren't referring to the 20's one.

[Stuka]

The 20's ones were also butchers incidentally:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum ... 17300.html

[FiNeRaIn]

Wow that article is from one of their own, what a roasting.

[Royal With Cheese]

I agree there is a historical difference between the IRA of 1920's and the incarnations post 1969 but from what I understand of the Celtic song book the latter are referred too just as much.

There is no difference. They are not, and never have been, representative of the majority of Irishmen on the island of Ireland. If they were, they would have won the war of independance.

Look at the Good Friday Agreement 94% of the Republic's voters voted to give up Ireland's claim to the 6 counties.

I was at a "Give My Head Peace" satirical review recently in Omagh in which Tim McGarry did a 10 minute stand up on how hated dissident republicans are and how the South hates the North. He got a standing ovation. Omagh is not known as a bastion of Unionism.

To put it into context, do we bang on about the battle of Agincourt in dusty old pubs and are openly hostile to the French? It's bollocks, the whole lot of it. The IRA were build on terror and opression - not liberation as the leaders claimed. They were as feared as the Black and Tans and any British force that came before and after.

So - Bollocks to the lot of 'em.

[Stuka]

Interesting post Royal.

[St Pauli]

Its a barmy post. They did win the war of independence for the most part despite having less men and equipment then the British. They compromised on the north when Britain promised 'immediate and terrrible' war if they carried on.

The Dail election of 1918 gave Sinn Fein 70% of the vote. To claim republicans were a minority is crazy. They were a minority in 1916, but the Easter Rising had a massive impact on Irish opinion as covered in this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dublin-1916-Sie ... 1846680530

Back to the main topic, fair points about the PIRA and IRA but I still see it as people getting far too worked up about football chants. English football fans who have probably sung their fair share of borderline songs in their time getting all hot under the collar because someone's singing about someone who attacked them.

For me STFC employing a man who openly supports and praises a man British soldiers died trying to remove from power is far more offensive. There seems to have been a collective turning of the blind eye and amnesia all at the same time there in order to score a few column inches and ST sales.

[Para Handy]

When I was younger, I was a big Celtic fan. Big, in that my Aberdonian granny bought me a Celtic shirt and I followed them, as you did, in those days by watching the highlights of the Scottish Cup Final after the FA Cup Final. Watched the 1970 European Cup Final and our tele went on the blink just as Ove Kindvall lobbed in the winner.

Most of my early football heroes played in the Celtic 1967-mid '70s sides. Billy McNeill, Stevie Chalmers, Tommy Gemmell, Bertie Auld, Jimmy Johnstone, Harry Hood, Dalglish, Macari, Hay.

Nowadays, I couldn't give a fcuk about either Rangers or Celtic. Sectarian shite from both sides, and I guess, being older, means that I despair at both clubs. Directors/players singing the sash...Managers being attacked in Glasgow. Quite frankly, it's not football, and it's bollocks as far as I'm concerned.

[Gus the teenage cow]

I agree there is a historical difference between the IRA of 1920's and the incarnations post 1969 but from what I understand of the Celtic song book the latter are referred too just as much.

There is no difference. They are not, and never have been, representative of the majority of Irishmen on the island of Ireland. If they were, they would have won the war of independance.

Look at the Good Friday Agreement 94% of the Republic's voters voted to give up Ireland's claim to the 6 counties.

I was at a "Give My Head Peace" satirical review recently in Omagh in which Tim McGarry did a 10 minute stand up on how hated dissident republicans are and how the South hates the North. He got a standing ovation. Omagh is not known as a bastion of Unionism.

To put it into context, do we bang on about the battle of Agincourt in dusty old pubs and are openly hostile to the French? It's bollocks, the whole lot of it. The IRA were build on terror and opression - not liberation as the leaders claimed. They were as feared as the Black and Tans and any British force that came before and after.

So - Bollocks to the lot of 'em.

FAIL

some interesting points and some half-truths but history remedial classes required

[FiNeRaIn]

Mate went to the ROI vs NI game tonight ( one of the 200 NI fans that traveled) said most of the ROI fans were booing GSTQ, singing celtic songs and chanting " up the ra" at the end. Said he thought he was at parkhead as the average Irish fan gave the game a miss and out came all celtic republican neds who couldn't talk about history beyond the late 90's.

Cretins.

[Royal With Cheese]

OK - clarification. I was talking about the Irish Civil War - not the war of Independence. This was effetively a huge split in the IRA into basically factions who realised that partition was inevitable and those who refused to accept it. Sorry for any confusion.

[Gus the teenage cow]

Mate went to the ROI vs NI game tonight ( one of the 200 NI fans that traveled) said most of the ROI fans were booing GSTQ, singing celtic songs and chanting " up the ra" at the end. Said he thought he was at parkhead as the average Irish fan gave the game a miss and out came all celtic republican neds who couldn't talk about history beyond the late 90's.

Cretins.

5 - 0 with an Irish reserve side too, jesus northern ireland are bad, i know they had a second string side out too but my god they are poor, republic reserves against northern ireland strongest 11 and it might have been a contest

interesting to see the norn iron fans bring union jacks to the game, I don't see Scotland or Wales doing that, perhaps Northern Ireland want a UK team, which of course would put them their own team out of existence, why do NI have god save the queen as their anthemn when Scotland and Wales have their own anthemns?, things would be settled if we could just saw off the country and plonk it in the Lake District or something and all those who have Irish affiliation can go South of the border before this replanting

what annoys me is all those northern irish types who say they are Irish one minute when it suits them and British the next when it suits them, no wonder the schizo's up there have troubles with their identity, just choose one affiliation and stick to it


anyway getting back to the UK team, only Bale from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland would get in the squad i think

[Wax Jacket]

Mate went to the ROI vs NI game tonight ( one of the 200 NI fans that traveled) said most of the ROI fans were booing GSTQ, singing celtic songs and chanting " up the ra" at the end. Said he thought he was at parkhead as the average Irish fan gave the game a miss and out came all celtic republican neds who couldn't talk about history beyond the late 90's.

Cretins.

lol

meanwhile Rangers fans continue a campaign of terrorism against the Celtic manager

epic hypocrisy

[FiNeRaIn]

Mate went to the ROI vs NI game tonight ( one of the 200 NI fans that traveled) said most of the ROI fans were booing GSTQ, singing celtic songs and chanting " up the ra" at the end. Said he thought he was at parkhead as the average Irish fan gave the game a miss and out came all celtic republican neds who couldn't talk about history beyond the late 90's.

Cretins.

5 - 0 with an Irish reserve side too, jesus northern ireland are bad, i know they had a second string side out too but my god they are poor, republic reserves against northern ireland strongest 11 and it might have been a contest

interesting to see the norn iron fans bring union jacks to the game, I don't see Scotland or Wales doing that, perhaps Northern Ireland want a UK team, which of course would put them their own team out of existence, why do NI have god save the queen as their anthemn when Scotland and Wales have their own anthemns?, things would be settled if we could just saw off the country and plonk it in the Lake District or something and all those who have Irish affiliation can go South of the border before this replanting

what annoys me is all those northern irish types who say they are Irish one minute when it suits them and British the next when it suits them, no wonder the schizo's up there have troubles with their identity, just choose one affiliation and stick to it


anyway getting back to the UK team, only Bale from Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland would get in the squad i think

Completely ignoring the IRA fest gus?

[Stuka]

Gus, an ignorant assessment about Northern Ireland fans and Northern Irish identity. Predictable response from a hater. You are very misunderstood. You probably like it that way.

[Gus the teenage cow]

Gus, an ignorant assessment about Northern Ireland fans and Northern Irish identity. Predictable response from a hater. You are very misunderstood. You probably like it that way.

lol

read the thread see who the haters are but you have a point, my comments on northern ireland football team and people were out of order, most of them are grand, like in all things a minority can give the overall a bad name especially when plonkers like myself feel like a rant