Protest against EPPP

[Hoop Blah]

I don't think the big clubs will stockpile the talent in quite the way it's being suggested.

Except that is exactly what they ARE doing, and HAVE been doing for years.

So it's not really in the way it's suggested then is it? That there's going to be a big increase in what they currently do to a lesser extent.

The difference could be, following these changes, that clubs can approach any kids not just those within a set commutable distance.

[Hoop Blah]

there has not been one legitimate point or argument made which displays why our current youth system is failing our national team. The Premierships oversized squads filled with overseas players is what is stifling our national game

Exactly. How many players do Manchester City have in their squad now? 70? 80? 90? It makes no sense, they can only ever play 11 at a time!!!
There should be rules against it. There should be a maximum squad size, 28 or 30 should suffice any club.
And also they need to bring back the maximum 3 foreigners rule, I know the EU will have something to say about it, but apparently i it is not illegal if you said that minimum 6 should be English or similar, it's only if you say "maximum 3 foreigners" it is illegal. So "minimum 8 native players" would be perfectly legal.

I think there should be a 'basic' salary cap - pick a number, say £10k per week. You can top that up with as much appearance and win/goal/points bonuses as you like, but ONLY if the player gets on in the game, so the really big numbers (£100k+ per week) are still available.

It would very rapidly reduce the number of players satisfied with sitting on the bench, make some of the less fashiponable clubs more attractive (they'd get a game for starters) and make the competition more, well, competitive.

I quite like this idea.

[Svlad Cjelli]

The difference could be, following these changes, that clubs can approach any kids not just those within a set commutable distance.

That will only apply to Category One Academies, because they will have accommodation and education plans.

But in reality this isn't much of an issue to the FL clubs - when this was discussed before the vote in October only a few clubs (notably Middlesboro, Exeter & Plymouth) raised any objection to this part of the proposals. For the vast majority of FL clubs there's already one or more PL clubs within the travel time and so they really aren't that bothered by this part of the changes.

[Hoop Blah]

It puts the big named clubs all within reach of all kids though, which I guess is the only real difference in that sense, but I still don't think it will make that much difference in terms of clubs attracting the talent in that sense.

Having a good academy and offering them the best education and chance to make a career will win through in the end. I can see the problem with less reward for finding the odd gem though.

How long has Dominic Samuel been with RFC by the way. His name has only recently been on my radar and I know he was at Millwall previously but not sure at what age we nicked him. We've got him on a professional deal now so he's not going to go on the £150k default or whatever it is, but I was wondering what Millwall thought of it.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Don't think for a minute I'm supporting EPPP or how it was passed, but there are a couple of things in the EPPP scheme that make it not quite so bad for FL clubs, and I'm not sure the Palace guys realise this.

For instance there's a "break-point" at age 15 where a club can offer a promising player a contract which is effectively a "professional" contract - so from that point they're outside the EPPP scheme and any transfer will be covered by normal transfer regulations.

At this same "break-point", if a FL club is resigned to losing a player, they needn't just sell them according to EPPP compensation regulations - they have the ability to "create a market" and any offers accepted that way will take precedence over EPPP compensation.

But yes, EPPP is less than ideal - and it raises a number of very major issues (which I must blog about when I get time and get over my current "writer's block ) - but all that can be done is monitor it. Protests and petitions to try and reverse the FL clubs' vote would be about as effective as King Cnut trying to stop the tide coming in. The time for protest is long past - we now just have to monitor this and hold the PL to account.

[Hoop Blah]

Which of course isn't what I was saying above and you said was wrong....

If a club gets a young player on a pro contract (which as Dirk points out they can now do at 15 - instead of I think 17 these days??) then they can protect themselves to some degree.

There's definately an issue with the compensation for losing promising players yes, I don't think I've argued that isn't the case at all. I don't think it's quite as big an issue as some are making out though. I don't think there are that many youngsters that move under those conditions though. I'm guessing that the majority the clubs that didn't vote against it feel the same, or at least they're willing to take the short term gamble that the money on offer from the deal is better than hoping to cash in via the old tribunal systsm on a prospect that gets nicked off them by a bigger club.

[Ian Royal]

I think there should be a 'basic' salary cap - pick a number, say £10k per week. You can top that up with as much appearance and win/goal/points bonuses as you like, but ONLY if the player gets on in the game, so the really big numbers (£100k+ per week) are still available.

It would very rapidly reduce the number of players satisfied with sitting on the bench, make some of the less fashiponable clubs more attractive (they'd get a game for starters) and make the competition more, well, competitive.

I quite like this idea.

Me too.

[jonboy29red]

with the EPPP deal does that mean clubs can set up there own acadamy`s in other parts of the country or not?

[Svlad Cjelli]

with the EPPP deal does that mean clubs can set up there own academy`s in other parts of the country or not?

Only category one academies can do this, or rather a local branch for recruiting. There can still only be one actual academy - and the "travelling distance" rule is only relaxed when a category one academy has been assessed by education authorities to ensure the suitability of accommodation and education, because they'll either be setting up "free schools" under new education legislation, or partnering with local schools etc who can provide the education.

One key thing, also, that no-one seems to have noticed or commented on, is that there is still a maximum number of kids at each age group allowed at each academy - I think it's about 30 per age group, and there are no proposals to change this, so this is a safeguard against "hoovering up" too many kids.

NB For those who may think I'm supporting EPPP, please don't! It's a reprehensible set of proposals, but it's not quite as bad as some suggest, and there are some safeguards in it and ways switched-on FL clubs can use it to their advantage. But rather than campaigning for the clock to be turned back (which is impossible now) I really think supporter campaigns should be focused on making sure the safeguards in it are upheld and monitoring the way this works in practice.

But the real scandal is the way it came to be voted in, but that's a story for another blog, another day.

[Hoop Blah]

I think we're in pretty much total agreement here Dirk.

I'm surprised the FL clubs 'sold their soul' in the way they did but I think they probably knew that it's not half as bad as many are making out and so they'd rather have the small amount of money from the Premier League (which is a bankable income) rather than hope they get lucky with one of the products they manage to produce.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I think we're in pretty much total agreement here Dirk.

I'm surprised the FL clubs 'sold their soul' in the way they did but I think they probably knew that it's not half as bad as many are making out and so they'd rather have the small amount of money from the Premier League (which is a bankable income) rather than hope they get lucky with one of the products they manage to produce.

It's slightly more complicated than that, and a classic case of PL double-dealing and chicanery, but I really am saving that for a blog so it gets a wider audience.

But to see people campaigning so hard about a battle that is well and truly lost and all in the past is a bit sad, tbh - supporters should be moving forward and focusing on battles that are winnable.

[Toon Toon Blue army]

I haven't read all of the comments here, but a few I have read seem to be from people who don't really have any knowledge about the EPPP and have just read a few negative bias articles.

The EPPP will result in the best young players in the country going to the best academies. It will completely change the way academy players are trained (for the better, the standard of some of the coaching in our academies is laughable). We will see more academies similar to Barcelona, where the set up, facilities and coaching support is just as good as the first team. Our national team is awful, if people can look beyond the perceived negatives of the EPPP, they will realise it is going to improve English football for the better.

Only negatives I hear about are the compensation packages. I am more worried about the welfare of our young talent, ensuring they are in the best possible environment to excel.

[Svlad Cjelli]

I haven't read all of the comments here, but a few I have read seem to be from people who don't really have any knowledge about the EPPP and have just read a few negative bias articles.

The EPPP will result in the best young players in the country going to the best academies. It will completely change the way academy players are trained (for the better, the standard of some of the coaching in our academies is laughable). We will see more academies similar to Barcelona, where the set up, facilities and coaching support is just as good as the first team. Our national team is awful, if people can look beyond the perceived negatives of the EPPP, they will realise it is going to improve English football for the better.

Only negatives I hear about are the compensation packages. I am more worried about the welfare of our young talent, ensuring they are in the best possible environment to excel.

Hmmmmm, in some ways you're right, and that is the high-level aim of EPPP as presented by the PL.

But there are genuine concerns for FL clubs, and some of the proposals may be counter-productive, though. As one example, because of the remuneration package for Category Four academies, it's quite possible that the total amount of Youth Development may go down, rather than up.

Cat 4 academies are designed for the smaller clubs who currently run local centres of excellence, and under EPPP these will be more like apprenticeships - entry point is age 16, and the intention is that these Cat 4 academies mop up kids at age 16 who have been discarded by other (higher level) academies. As this is quick and easy and relatively well-compensated (in comparison to existing financial subsidy) the predictions are that quite a few Tier 3 & 4 clubs will go for Cat 4 status, which means that they'll come out of the business of Youth Discovery completely, effectively converting quite a few centres of excellence to the equivalent of apprenticeships and thus reducing the overall level of youth development.

PS - I hope I'm excluded from your "people who don't really have any knowledge about the EPPP" I know much more than I really want to about this.