Building A Squad Ethos/The Academy

[Vision]

This is something of a mish mash post really but I've been reading alot on the 106team comparison thread as well as the weakest squad thread about our ethos and I'm sort of writing out loud a few things I've been pondering over in the last couple of weeks with regards to:-

What is The Reading Way and where does it come from?
How do you still gradually build a squad whilst losing key individuals along the way?.
Differences between 05/06 and now.
The role of our Academy in the TSI future.

The general consensus is that the 106 team was built gradually over the course of 3 seasons by Coppell on the foundation of mainstays such as Hahnemann,Murty,Shorey,Ingimarrson,Sidwell,Harper,Kitson etc.

It's also generally accepted that McD hasn't had that luxury and has had to build 3 seperate teams in that time. Whilst certainly he's lost the odd key individual and has been forced to tinker with the playing style a little each time I wonder if these "rebuilds" are quite as radical as we think.

No question that at the point we sold them, individually Siggy,Long and Mills had come off the back of an outstanding season.I'm also not suggesting that we wouldn't have been even better with those 3 in the current side but the truth is that we've actually improved each season after they were sold.The reason for that success is generally put down as "The Reading Way", "All One Team Ethos" which is similiar to that which the 106 team was built on.

If you think about the mainstays of McD's squad Feds,Cummings,Pearce,McAnuff,Kebe,Karacan,Church,HRK,Tabb,Hunt have all been with Reading for as near as dammit 3 seasons at least and with Mcd from the start of his tenure and are every bit a part of a McD building process as those mentioned above were to Coppell.

They're the players who set the tone within the group for those signings that come into it and it could be very significant that a large chunk of them have come through our academy.It's to be hoped that this is an inbuilt thing which is instilled in our youngsters throughout their academy education by Dolan et al.

I did say it was a mish-mash of a post.

[Snowball]

What would you say was the first 11 for each of those seasons?

2011-12

Federici
Cummings-Pearce-Gorkss-Harte
Kebe-Karacan-Elwood-McAnuff

and

2 from Hunt-Church-Alf for the first 27 Games

Hunt-Roberts for the last 19 games (more or less)



We started with Long for the one game, then had to change things
and had Khumalo

==============================================

2010-11

Federici (34 Games)

Griffin (33) - Mills (38) - Zurab/Pearce (20) - Harte (40)

Kebe-Karacan-(Howard/Tabb replaced by Elwood) - McAnuff

Shane (44) Hunt (19) Church (14)


Much messier, lots of bit-parts, and I'd forgotten we had Gylfi
for four games so had to change the system Game 5 onwards


========================================

2009-10


Even Messier!!


Federici 46


Griffin (21) Mills (22) Pearce (24) Zurab (14) Ingimarsson (25) Bertrand (44)



Kebe (30) Howard (30) Karacan (19) Matejovsky (13) Cisse (14) Bryn (18) Tabb (27)McAnuff (36 )
Sigurdsson (32 )


Church 22/ Long 22/ Raziak 14


I think Bryn and Tabb played at RB too

[Vision]

Ok it was a shit post (and believe me this one isn't going to be much better! ) so it probably deserved that Snowball stat attack but its not the point I'm making. I'm talking really about the concept of the squad ethos,where it comes from and how we've deveoped it.

If we look at the regulars in 05/06 compared to those that were here when Coppell arrived then you can see that the core of the 05/06 side was here already. This is considered as a given that Coppell built the 05/06 side over 3 seasons. Individual players came and went within that time until we got to the 106 season but there was a core of players already here when he took over.

I'm simply offering up a slightly against the grain view that in keeping a hardcore of players that know and buy into the Reading way,Squad ethos etc and then finding indivduals to fit come into that set up. McD has built this squad over 3 seasons as well. The main differences I can see are that A) McD was already at the club when he was appointed manager,B) he lost 3 individuals he would have preferred to keep and C) he had relatively inexperienced Academy players

If we take Coppell's first game in charge as being Preston at home Oct 03 then there are only 4 players who appeared in that game that were around in 05/06. Hahnemann,Shorey,Sidwell,Harper. Murty I assume was injured so should be included which takes the figure of 05/06 players here at that time to 5.

If we take McD's 1st game as being Bristol City in Dec 09 then there were 7 players plus Karacan as an unused sub who appeared in that game who are still here. As an aside 6 of those actually appeared against Brighton on Tuesday!. HRK appeared in the game after against Swansea whilst Cummings was an unused sub in that game as well.That's also without mentioning the injured Noel Hunt.

If as McD always says it's about "the group" then I'd suggest this "group" has been built over 3 seasons based on the foundation that was already here in a very similiar way to 05/06.

[RepressedRoyal]

Not such a ridicolous post Vision...in fact a very relevant one when you see the remarkable achievement of the club. The "Reading Way" is based around the principles of hard work getting the results, the formula applies to every squad member and if one doesn't tow the party line it's goodbye (see Manset).

McDermott's and the club as a whole, operate to the principles that are well documented in the book "Bounce" by Mathew Syed and that is that dedication and hours of work undertaken by individuals created in the club way or the "Reading way" will pay dividends. The real key to this success is choosing individuals who are prepared to put the hours in and learn their trade (Long, Pearce, Church, Karacan etc) and blend in some vital experience that will be respected by the existing squad (Gorkks, Roberts etc).

For this to work every individual has to be singing from the same song sheet. It may seem obvious, but it is no coincidence that Reading and Southampton have similar club principles whilst Leicester and West Ham have an eclectic group of personalities who have arrived from different regimes, so they are confused to what the right way of doing things are. Kevin Nolan and Mark Noble will have been coached in different ways, whilst the spine of Reading will have been taught the same. Hard work is reality, natural born talent is a myth.

To look at this at a higher level, you could compare Manchester United and Arsenal (who are re-building) to Reading and Southampton and Manchester City and Liverpool to West ham and Leicester. A stable structure at a football club works time and time again, but it seems there are few who are prepared to think beyond next week (look at Chelsea) whilst a seemingly limited side like United waltz off with the biggest prize. When we hear McDermott on Radio Berks, he sounds like the type of bloke you would chat about football to down the local pub, but you can guarantee that he has not achieved what he has without being ruthless when it counts.

What I find so impressive about him is that he knows how to keep the squad on his side (Tabb,HRK, Le Fondre, Church etc) and feel like they are fighting for the same cause as the regulars, that takes some doing. How he faces the challenges ahead will be really intriguing.

If you haven't read Bounce, go and buy it, as a bonus it is written by a bloke from Reading as well.

[Snowball]

Ok it was a shit post (and believe me this one isn't going to be much better! ) so it probably deserved that Snowball stat attack but its not the point I'm making. I'm talking really about the concept of the squad ethos,where it comes from and how we've deveoped it.

How was posting the teams a stat attack?

or perhaps personnel aren't relevant?

If we look at the regulars in 05/06 compared to those that were here when Coppell arrived then you can see that the core of the 05/06 side was here already.

Yup, what I said about a week ago.

9 regular starters from the previous year, used to each other
add Doyle and Lita and bingo.

This is considered as a given that Coppell built the 05/06 side over 3 seasons.
Individual players came and went within that time until we got to the 106 season but there was a core of players already here when he took over.

Yep to get 9 players playing close on 90 games is the key.

It's what McD has been saying, rebuilding sucks.

Maybe promoted sides "having momentum" is more to do with
simply staying together

I'm simply offering up a slightly against the grain view that in keeping a hardcore of players that know and buy into the Reading way,Squad ethos etc and then finding indivduals to fit come into that set up. McD has built this squad over 3 seasons as well. The main differences I can see are that A) McD was already at the club when he was appointed manager,B) he lost 3 individuals he would have preferred to keep and C) he had relatively inexperienced Academy players

REALLY? I thought he was unhappy at three restructurings.


Not merely "losing personnel"

Gyfli going 4 games into a season meant a huge change of tack, and that was after a rebuild
or change-from Rodgers' ideas

Then Shane wasn't easily replaced.

[Snowball]

Bounce was VG (not as good as Moneyball tho)

[Maguire]

No offence Vision, but I can't possibly deem this thread a success.

[Vision]

@Snowball. It was a post about how a "squad" ethos is built up by a hardcore of players over a 3 year period and how those players set the tone for individuals coming into the side.I'm offering up a point of view for discussion that actually thats just as crucial here rather than any individual restructuring or personnel changes and that its been built up over a 3 year period as it was for 05/06. I was also interested in peoples view on

What The Reading Way is?
Who is responsible for implementing our "ethos" is?
What part does the Academy play in all of this.

So in terms of "squad" and "group" posting a list of appearances from each individual season is irrelevent to the discussion especially if as McD is always saying those that aren't playing are just as important as those that do.

@Mags Tbf it started badly and has gone downhill from there (RR's post aside).

[Arch]

It's still only April. Be patient.

[Gordons Cumming]

Personally I'd rather compared them if we go up.

That is all.

[Snowball]

Fairy Enuff Vish, but, altho' the squad is important
IMO if you have a core of 11 that starts almost
every game, that's the key

That's what happened in 2005-06 and that's what's happened this season post Game 6

[Maguire]

Fairy Enuff Vish, but, altho' the squad is important
IMO if you have a core of 11 that starts almost
every game, that's the key

That's what happened in 2005-06 and that's what's happened this season post Game 6

Apart from Jason Roberts, first choice striker and the catalyst to our success?

[melonhead]

a catalyst


not the

imo

[Maguire]

a catalyst

not the

imo

Racist

[Snowball]

Fairy Enuff Vish, but, altho' the squad is important
IMO if you have a core of 11 that starts almost
every game, that's the key

That's what happened in 2005-06 and that's what's happened this season post Game 6

Apart from Jason Roberts, first choice striker and the catalyst to our success?

We had been steadily improving throughout the season from game 7 onwards
as the 12-Game Moving Average shows.

We had settled in a "standard" back, 5 the two central midfielders and McAnuff
and Kebe has made 31/42 appearances and Hunt 38/42 (30 Starts)

Roberts has come in alongside all that and stepped us up a class in one position
but the side was overall VERY settled as the appearance stats make abundantly clear
and our ppg was 1.9 ppg before the Hull game, 1.81 afterwards.

Adding a player (Roberts) to a basically-settled side is what happened in 2005-06 with Doyle/Lita added to a solid team

[Gordons Cumming]

In my experience of supporting the club over 40 years the "Reading Way" is, in most cases, bottling it at the last minute.

HTH

[Maguire]

our ppg was 1.9 ppg before the Hull game, 1.81 afterwards

What?

12 games up to Hull = 2.00ppg
12 games after Hull (ie. when we signed Roberts) = 2.58 ppg

Or close enough

[Gordons Cumming]

our ppg was 1.9 ppg before the Hull game, 1.81 afterwards

What?

12 games up to Hull = 2.00ppg
12 games after Hull (ie. when we signed Roberts) = 2.58 ppg

Or close enough

[Snowball]

our ppg was 1.9 ppg before the Hull game, 1.81 afterwards

What?

12 games up to Hull = 2.00ppg
12 games after Hull (ie. when we signed Roberts) = 2.58 ppg

Or close enough

Don't dispute that, BUT WE HAD A SETTLED SIDE and made one addition
and I thought that was the general point of the thread. Bringing in a
good player (like adding Doyle and Lita to the 2004-5 squad)
isn't "masses of changes." We aren't West Ham.

Roberts was able to slot in replacing Church (he's nearly as good as Simon, cough)
and we continued playing the same game, same ethos, same other ten more
or less, only difference being the ball stuck a bit more (yippee) and Roberts
is getting assists where Church didn't.

Surprisingly, it's not Roberts' GOALS that are making the difference, but his all-round play, assists etc.


1,551 Minutes 7 Goals a Goal every 222 Minutes CHURCH
1,131 Minutes 5 Goals a Goal every 226 Minutes Roberts


and for reference...

1,668 Minutes 9 Goals a Goal every 185 Minutes ALF

[pea]

Surprisingly, it's not Roberts' GOALS that are making the difference, but his all-round play, assists etc.