An Ipswich fan writes: Church - is he any good?

[Royal Ginger]

He's not nearly as bad as it has become fashionable to say. He's deservedly fifth choice right now, but he's still a good player and would probably score 10-12 goals in the Championship given a whole season of decent service. He played half a season with minimal service last year and scored, what, 7?

I agree with part of this, he's not as bad as we make out, it's become a running gag, but he's also managed to prove that he's not of the required standard for the team. Any fit person who's played football for a few seasons will fluke a few goals when the ball hits your face. I'm not saying that he's quite that bad, but given the choice, i don't think many here would play him in a Champ team let alone a Prem one.

I hope he proves me wrong, I welcome the day when he scores his 20th goal in a season, or we sell him for a huge amount. Think i'll be waiting a while though...

[SpaceCruiser]

Not entirely true, he was improving the season before and even got about 10 goals. Remember he was still a young man. He's now, what, 23,24?

Long got about 5 league goals that season. Church was closer to 10.

You got it the wrong way round. I've just checked soccerbase, for season 2010-11, Church got 5 and Long got 9.

BTW, soccerbase says Shane is now 25 years old....

[Snowball]

2010 was Church's "disaster" season, not long after his died died.


2009-10 he did VERY well and 2011-12 his stats aren't bad

[SCIAG]

Not entirely true, he was improving the season before and even got about 10 goals. Remember he was still a young man. He's now, what, 23,24?

Long got about 5 league goals that season. Church was closer to 10.

You got it the wrong way round. I've just checked soccerbase, for season 2010-11, Church got 5 and Long got 9.

BTW, soccerbase says Shane is now 25 years old....

You haven't got that right. 2010-11 was the season where Long was our top scorer. In 2009-10 (the season we were discussing), Church scored 10 league goals, 2 cup goals and one for Wales. Long scored 6 league goals and 3 cup goals.

Both our statements were correct, the difference is I don't value cup goals particularly because you play against teams from lower leagues or weakened sides.

[Snowball]

Shane's 3 cup goals were away to Liverpool and home to a good Villa side

[bigmike]

I think Church would do well at Ipswich.. I believe that you guys would give him a decent service.. Hes not as bad as some make out but to be fair I would drive him to Ipswich if that helps.

FYI Snowball is a member of Mensa who’s only real achievement is getting a certificate to say he was a member of Mensa. He also posts one sided stats to try and prove his point. Whilst he may do well on the cattell b scale he scores very low on the HNA Likeability scale. As part of the Church deal we will willingly throw in Snowball and his stat spreadsheet.

[Snowball]

I think Church would do well at Ipswich.. I believe that you guys would give him a decent service.. Hes not as bad as some make out but to be fair I would drive him to Ipswich if that helps.

FYI Snowball is a member of Mensa who’s only real achievement is getting a certificate to say he was a member of Mensa. He also posts one sided stats to try and prove his point. Whilst he may do well on the cattell b scale he scores very low on the HNA Likeability scale. As part of the Church deal we will willingly throw in Snowball and his stat spreadsheet.

and big Mike, is well, big

[Snowball]

and I will be proved right by Simon Church, just like I was with Shane Long.

[Dare to Dr£am]

and I will be proved right by Simon Church, just like I was with Shane Long.

No, no you wont.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

For all but the last 2 months of last season, Church was the leading scorer for a championship winning team. True Factz.

[ZacNaloen]

2010 was Church's "disaster" season, not long after his dad died.


2009-10 he did VERY well and 2011-12 his stats aren't bad

I agree with this.

He wasn't bad last year at all.

Not first choice because we had better strikers, but still looked decent and deserving of a place on the bench.

His main problem at Reading is that his strengths don't play to the first teams strengths.

[Simon's Church]

SO he hasn't even gone? The fuck's this doing on the team board?

[bigmike]

I think Church would do well at Ipswich.. I believe that you guys would give him a decent service.. Hes not as bad as some make out but to be fair I would drive him to Ipswich if that helps.

FYI Snowball is a member of Mensa who’s only real achievement is getting a certificate to say he was a member of Mensa. He also posts one sided stats to try and prove his point. Whilst he may do well on the cattell b scale he scores very low on the HNA Likeability scale. As part of the Church deal we will willingly throw in Snowball and his stat spreadsheet.

and big Mike, is well, big

Keep trying you may manage to find a witty retort some day

[MassSarrslibrarian]

Just for clarity, let's go through all of the forwards at the club's statistics...for this I have included EVERY single game players have played, including internationals. let's be honest, whenever we look at any potential transfer targets, statistics are a key measure, especially for strikers, so it's only fair we apply the same logic to the current forwards at the club:

Adam le Fondre-a goal every 2.40 games
Pavel Pogrebnyak-3.17 games
Jason Roberts-3.10 games
Noel Hunt-3.91 games

because he has been mentioned, ex-royal, Shane Long has amassed a goal every 3.57 games

Simon Church...wait for it.....5.05 games per goal...FIVE GAMES...really, does anybody want that...tell me the name of any striker who has been a global success at football who averages a goal every five games?????

[Vision]

Just for clarity, let's go through all of the forwards at the club's statistics...for this I have included EVERY single game players have played, including internationals. let's be honest, whenever we look at any potential transfer targets, statistics are a key measure, especially for strikers, so it's only fair we apply the same logic to the current forwards at the club:

Adam le Fondre-a goal every 2.40 games
Pavel Pogrebnyak-3.17 games
Jason Roberts-3.10 games
Noel Hunt-3.91 games

because he has been mentioned, ex-royal, Shane Long has amassed a goal every 3.57 games

Simon Church...wait for it.....5.05 games per goal...FIVE GAMES...really, does anybody want that...tell me the name of any striker who has been a global success at football who averages a goal every five games?????

Uh-Ho. I've a feeling theres a snowstorm coming...

[ZacNaloen]

I prefer minutes on the pitch stats...

[Snowball]

Appearances are a dumb stat

[Deadlock]

You'd better take note, MassSarrslibrarian - if anyone knows dumb stats, it's Snowball.

[Hoop Blah]

and I will be proved right by Simon Church, just like I was with Shane Long.

And what is your prediction on Church that will be proved right, just to be clear?

[Snowball]

Hoop, I said, Page 1.

4,952 Championship minutes for 21 Championship Goals

= 236 minutes per goal or about a goal every 2.5 90 minutes. That includes one very poor season 2010-11

in 2009-10 he got 10 Championship Goals in 1,856 minutes. 1 every 186 minutes. That is top-top striking

Last season as a bit-part player, often brought on when we were protecting a lead he still got 7 goals in 1639 = 234 mins/goal.

When he started out people raved about his movement and great things were expected.

Compared to someone like Shane Long (for ages he was considered MUCH better than Long) he isn't brave/reckless
but IMO, in the right Championship side, giving lots of playing time and decent service he can get back to a goal every 180 minutes.

He maybe lacks confidence but has all the raw materials to be at least a very good championship striker at least

If you need specifics.

I predict something very similar to what I did for Shane Long.

I said Shane would make a 10-goal a season Prem Player, or 20-a season Championship, or 30-a-season in League 1.

I don't think Churchy has the raw aggression/sheer speed to ever match Shane, but he probably has a better football brain,
more subtle movement, can find space etc (as opposed to being a channel-runner, which Shane is great at) so could,
in the right team, match Shane's goals. ie: His touch and movement can compensate somewhat for the power-attributes he lacks

So instead of 10-20-30, I predict 8-17-25 but I can see him doing better than that (playing a full season, mostly starting)

I think Simon needs games, a lot of games, starting, and getting 75+ minutes to blossom, but if he gets that (presumably,
to begin with in the Championship) I would expect him to score a goal every 200 minutes of play time or a tad better.