Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Tony Le Mesmer]

It is sustainable when one of the backers is the richest man in the world. .

..until he sells the club for a nice profit to some random 'fit and proper person'. Ring any Bells? (Pun)

[Tredder]

Jeez.

[handbags_harris]

It is sustainable when one of the backers is the richest man in the world. There is no FFP in the premier league so they can spend what they want, same as Chelsea and City.

And if QPR qualify for European competition over the next year or two...?

Jeez.

You just don't see it do you. You're in the same boat as the Pompey fan, the Leeds fan, the Leicester fan, the Cardiff fan, unquestionably backing the extreme amounts of money being spent on players that QPR simply can't afford. The spending has to be up there with Pompey 5 - 10 years ago under Mandaric and Gaydamak, both supposedly rich men and both who have run a club into the ground (or two in the case of Mandaric - watch out Sheffield Wednesday!)

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Something is only sustainable for as long as it lasts.

That's for as long a the person happy to underwrite it is prepared to do so, still has the money, is alive and well, is not arrested for fraud or money-laundering, has his family's support or one of 101 possible other reasons ....

For what happens to a club when the rich sugar-daddy owner falls ill, see Gretna FC & Brooks Mileson.

[Victor Meldrew]

It is sustainable when one of the backers is the richest man in the world. There is no FFP in the premier league so they can spend what they want, same as Chelsea and City.

And if QPR qualify for European competition over the next year or two...?

Jeez.

You just don't see it do you. You're in the same boat as the Pompey fan, the Leeds fan, the Leicester fan, the Cardiff fan, unquestionably backing the extreme amounts of money being spent on players that QPR simply can't afford. The spending has to be up there with Pompey 5 - 10 years ago under Mandaric and Gaydamak, both supposedly rich men and both who have run a club into the ground (or two in the case of Mandaric - watch out Sheffield Wednesday!)

But what can any fan do about it?
They go along for the ride and if it works it works.
There's no point QPR fans sitting in their cramped stadium thinking "Oh I wish the club hadn't spent any money and I so wish we still had a crap team and got relegated".
To some extent Madejski spent way above what the club could afford in the Burns/Pardew eras-this is what QPR are doing.
So whatever happened to Reading,did we go bust?
Are we where Pompey are?
No,because having spent excessively ,including the infrastructure,we got where the owner wanted to get and are now a much more cautiously (some say too cautiously)run club.

Why couldn't QPR do the same?
If they get another ground (which I gather is on the cards)why can't they become a regular Prem League club with the income streams that go with it?
As we found out when we got relegated there is a fine line betwween survival and expenditure and last time we didn't get it right.
This time I think we are sailing very close to the wind by once again honing in expenditure and QPR in the long run could still have the last laugh if we revert to lower level football with 14-15,000 crowds and they have some success by staying at the top level.
Their crucial issue,as it was with Southampton,is the getting of a new ground-if that doesn't happen they could be well and truly f****d.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

A nice round-up of all the clubs in trouble last season : http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/round-up-of-season-201112/

[Barry the bird boggler]

I note that Northwich were relegated for failure to meet the terms of an agreed CVA. Nice to see consistency from the FA when this happens......

[Alexander Litvinenko]

I note that Northwich were relegated for failure to meet the terms of an agreed CVA. Nice to see consistency from the FA when this happens......

That's because the jurisdiction lies with each individual competition organiser (i.e. league), rather than the FA.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I note that Northwich were relegated for failure to meet the terms of an agreed CVA. Nice to see consistency from the FA when this happens......

Basically Barry, in non league they dont fck about when you dont pay your debts. They kick you out. Where as the football league pander to the financial dopers at the expense of those who pay their way.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

UEFA witholds the prize money of 23 clubs who have "overdue payables towards other clubs, and/or towards employees or social/tax authorities"

The clubs are :
FK Borac Banja Luka (BIH)
FK Sarajevo (BIH)
FK Željezničar (BIH)
PFC CSKA Sofia (BUL)
HNK Hajduk Split (CRO)
NK Osijek (CRO)
Club Atlético de Madrid (ESP)
Málaga CF (ESP)
Maccabi Netanya FC (ISR)
FK Shkendija 79 (MKD)
Floriana FC (MLT)
FK Budućnost Podgorica (MNE)
FK Rudar Pjevlja (MNE)
Ruch Chorzów (POL)
Sporting Clube de Portugal (POR)
FC Dinamo Bucureşti (ROU)
FC Rapid Bucureşti (ROU)
FC Vaslui (ROU)
FC Rubin Kazan (RUS)
FK Partizan (SRB)
FK Vojvodina (SRB)
Eskişehirspor (TUR)
Fenerbahçe SK (TUR)

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/financialfairplay/news/newsid=1857626.html

[dizzynewheights]

Rangers FC refuse to attand tomorrows commission investigating their financial shenanigans

turns out they do do walking away

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Strangely (new) Rangers claim they bought the titles and history from the old Rangers as assets, and any attempt to strip old Rangers of those titles will be met by a legal challenge. Quite how you can transfer ownership of a title is beyond me.

Does that mean Celtic could have bought Rangers' titles and claimed them as their own?

Could we approach Wanderers FC and buy their FA Cup wins and list them under our club honours?

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Strangely (new) Rangers claim they bought the titles and history from the old Rangers as assets, and any attempt to strip old Rangers of those titles will be met by a legal challenge. Quite how you can transfer ownership of a title is beyond me.

Does that mean Celtic could have bought Rangers' titles and claimed them as their own?

Could we approach Wanderers FC and buy their FA Cup wins and list them under our club honours?

There is precedent in English, where as part of the "peace treaty" between AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons the latter agreed to relinquish all claims to the honours and history of Wimbledon FC, and to transfer all tangible assets (e.g. the replica FA Cup that WFC got) for display in the London Borough of Merton.

[dizzynewheights]

Debt? We're Newco. Titles? We're Oldco. Punishment? We're Newco. History? We're Oldco. EBTs? Newco. SFA Licence? Oldco. #TheRangersWaltz

[soggy biscuit]

Hearts fail to pay wages this month

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Strangely (new) Rangers claim they bought the titles and history from the old Rangers as assets, and any attempt to strip old Rangers of those titles will be met by a legal challenge. Quite how you can transfer ownership of a title is beyond me.

Does that mean Celtic could have bought Rangers' titles and claimed them as their own?

Could we approach Wanderers FC and buy their FA Cup wins and list them under our club honours?

There is precedent in English, where as part of the "peace treaty" between AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons the latter agreed to relinquish all claims to the honours and history of Wimbledon FC, and to transfer all tangible assets (e.g. the replica FA Cup that WFC got) for display in the London Borough of Merton.

Other than the cup replica, they aren't really anything tangible though. They have no monetary value.


I don't think the SFL should be able to strip Rangers (old or new) of those titles though. While you can argue tax dodging is a form of cheating, it's not akin to match fixing or something like that, nor was not paying tax against SFL rules, I'd imagine.

[Jackson Corner]

Strangely (new) Rangers claim they bought the titles and history from the old Rangers as assets, and any attempt to strip old Rangers of those titles will be met by a legal challenge. Quite how you can transfer ownership of a title is beyond me.

Does that mean Celtic could have bought Rangers' titles and claimed them as their own?

Could we approach Wanderers FC and buy their FA Cup wins and list them under our club honours?

Should Pompey be stripped of there FA cup then?

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Strangely (new) Rangers claim they bought the titles and history from the old Rangers as assets, and any attempt to strip old Rangers of those titles will be met by a legal challenge. Quite how you can transfer ownership of a title is beyond me.

Does that mean Celtic could have bought Rangers' titles and claimed them as their own?

Could we approach Wanderers FC and buy their FA Cup wins and list them under our club honours?

Should Pompey be stripped of there FA cup then?

Has Portsmouth ceased to exist and reformed at a lower level?

[Franchise FC]

Other than the cup replica, they aren't really anything tangible though. They have no monetary value.


I don't think the SFL should be able to strip Rangers (old or new) of those titles though. While you can argue tax dodging is a form of cheating, it's not akin to match fixing or something like that, nor was not paying tax against SFL rules, I'd imagine.

But that's exactly the point - had they worked within the legal framework they wouldn't have had the same amount of money to spend, therefore wouldn't have been able to afford the players they had and in all probability not won anywhere near as many trophies (last 10 years, anyway).
Cheating is taking an unfair advantage - that's exactly what they've done...... and Portsmouth, and Leeds, and Leicester, etc.

[Ian Royal]

No one gets stripped of titles for financial doping, so I don't really see the point. The argument for Rangers having no trophies, is the argument they are a different club. They don't retain Ranger's league place. The argument is they were liquidated and a new club set up buying their assets. How true that is, some might argue.

So Pompey should retain the FA Cup. Until the get liquidated and start up as a new co with a new league registration. At which point they start again from scratch in (hopefully) 2013 with what ever assets from old Pompey they can get their hands on, and no claim to any of the honours.