Guthrie told to stay away...

[Lacoste]

I'm sorry but from what I have heard which may or may not be true, I have to blame MCD.

He bought the player and knew his game and now he is bannishing him for not being able to adapt as quickley. Managers build teams around their style of play and he has got that wrong with most of our summer signings.

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

Massive LOL at all the comments on here about Guthrie not fitting into the Reading way of playing, and about how he should piss off so that we can maintain that 'Way' no matter what. The Reading way is hustle and bustle, championship standard wing play, percentage set pieces and resorting to hoofball when nothing else is working.

It's mid-table championship quality football (at best) in the long term. We#ve got where we are over the last few years with those tactics, and most importantly an attitude and fitness level that means we keep going for 90+ minutes.

I'm not saying Guthrie specifically is the answer, but attitude and fitness wont get us 3 points in this division (as we've seen). We need players of Guthries ability (and unfortunately ego) to push on as a club, get out of the sh1t and up the table. Anyone who thinks we can survive playing 442 week in week out with the personnel we currently have are being very naive.

I think it also sends out a message to any other players that may or may not be interested in coming here in January, that unles you are one of Brians boys, you're going to have a hard time getting a run in the side.

[Cypry]

I'm sorry but from what I have heard which may or may not be true, I have to blame MCD.

He bought the player and knew his game and now he is bannishing him for not being able to adapt as quickley. Managers build teams around their style of play and he has got that wrong with most of our summer signings.

Again, jumping to conclusions....

Brian absolutely could have said "Right, I've had enough of you and your attitude, f**k off and don't bother coming in on Monday"

OR

he could have said "Look Danny, you need to calm down a bit, I'm the gaffer and I pick the team. You're obviously upset, take Monday off, play a bit of golf and come back Wednesday when you've had a chance to calm down"...


OR

it could have been anything in between - the thing is, none of us REALLY know, yet a significant proportion of contributors seem to have a blinkered view that it's the former (which is quite funny given that it's the spin that Fordham puts on it, yet some of those taking it as gospel are the very same who, given half a chance, like nothing better than to slate Fordham himself)....

[Maguire]

It's mid-table championship quality football (at best) in the long term. We#ve got where we are over the last few years with those tactics

Doesn't make sense.

[under the tin]

This is in no way a unique situation. It happens all the time at clubs all over the country.
The bottom line is that McDermott is paid to make the decisions, and like every other team manager in the country, his continued employment hinges on the results that those decisions bring.
Bringing new players in is never an exact science, and sometimes things just don't pan out as originally intended.
You should hear Mick Gooding go on about his time playing under Emlyn Hughes!
Brian has been in football his whole life, and his philosophy is based on a squad mentality, as opposed to a starting eleven one.
If Guthrie cannot deal with that, then he has no future under Brian, regardless of his ability.

[RoyalBlue]

Tabb was the one who left Ruiz to wonder by himself at the edge of the box and smash in a screamer which cost us all 3 points

I honestly don't think DG would have done that

Yes, unfortunately Tabb chose that moment to take a rest (one of the problems of having high workrate as your main game strength). Ruiz went past him, Tabb half started to go with him and then stopped/jogged, allowing Ruiz to run free and unchallenged. Had Tabb chased and hastled him (that is what he is there for), it is very unlikely that Ruiz would have been able to produce that finish. That is one of the reasons why I don't think Tabb deserves to be called MOTM.

[Mr.T10]

Hugely disappointed... The reason we allow teams to get back in to games is we give the ball away cheaply. Stupid 5 yard pass or just a simple hoof up the field with no thinking to it. That’s due to our CM's panicking and don't have enough quality to be able to dictate the tempo and pass a ball which is effective, Guthrie is good at that. Look at Fulham instead of grasping the game and just keeping the ball making the opposition work but what we did was give the ball away and allow Fulham to get back in it. We need a Guthrie *Not saying he is godly etc.* but if we want to win a game in the prem we need to control it.

[loyalroyal4life]

Bit of a shame, was hoping he would play tomorrow.

Guthrie >>> Mcanuff in centre mid!!!

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

Doesn't make sense.

It does really. Since i've been coming to games (mid 90's), Thats been about our level other than a couple of outlier seasons such as last season (brought on by an injection of cash / Roberts etc) and 05/06 which could arguably have been 'the perfect storm' with the squad that came together.

I'm no snowball but i'd hazard a guess at over that time our average league position has been mid-table tier 2.

I'm not saying we can't do better than that in the medium to long term, i'm saying that we won't unless we change our philosophy.

[Lacoste]

Will Anton trust MCD with finances in January?

[Far Canal]

The Reading way is hustle and bustle, championship standard wing play, percentage set pieces and resorting to hoofball when nothing else is working.

Stoke haven't done too bad on it.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastl ... -32120444/

There is a quite good assessment of Guthrie and the team here:

http://www.tiktaka.com/reading/guthrie- ... -survival/

[PistolPete]

Just wanted to add that I am also disappointed that Guthrie, a quality player, is not being man-managed well enough.

We need quality out on the pitch!

[BraisingsteakRoyal]

True enough - Far Canal - they've had a similar trajectory to us, although in the last couple of years they've spent a fortune assembling a squad that has 4-5 first teamers that are an order of magnitude better than ours.

[West Stand Man]

Anyone who doesn't believe it, after hearing McD's interview after the game, is an idiot imo.

Quite clearly, there is a problem. Guthrie wasn't even on the bench. He has clearly been told to adapt his style of play to the way that McD wants him to play, as Guthrie himself tweeted a few weeks ago. If he's moaned about it to McD or anyone else, I don't blame him. It's the way he may have gone about it that may be questionable. If he's ranted and raved and sworn to McD, then McD needs to reel him in.

I note that I joined HNA about 2 hrs before you in 2004 and that I have made about 10% of the volume of contribution that you have. Maybe that is because I don't jump to conclusions based on what I think I heard in an interview; that I keep my powder dry for when there is something to comment on; or, of course, simply that you have more time to make nearly 40,000 posts. Whichever way, there is no 'fact' on which to base the hardened attitudes developing on here. Making judgements on BMcD's interview post match (which didn't include any comment on Guthrie being banned from training) is a tad premature. Maybe there is scope to discuss whether that interview might have hinted that Guthrie has got issues - but no more than that yet.

My issue is that we have (as ever on this board) polarised views on whether Guthrie of BMcD is at fault for something we don't even know happened.

[Schards#2]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood
Tabb
Mcanuff
Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

[Cypry]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood
Tabb
Mcanuff
Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

The question was why Guthrie wasn't in the squad on Saturday....that's the molehill that Dellor was trying to have a dig around...

I'm sure there are some issues around Guthrie (his little outburst on Twitter more than hints at that) - Brian is probably, quite rightly so, trying to keep a lid on it, and probably sees it as unhelpful when "the press" keep picking at the wound...that could explain why he sounded pissed off couldn't it?
I suspect Brian is more than aware that we're lacking in midfield personnel with Jem out for a bit, and the last thing he wants is the press agitating any situation which surrounds Guthrie any further. I'm sure nobody more than Brian would like to have him featuring as a starting player...problem is, look at his performance against Liverpool - in a situation where we desperately need a win, would you be prepared to take a gamble on a player coming good, where recently he's been unable to produce the goods?

My problem here is how polarised peoples views are, and how many seem to want to knock Brian at every opportunity.....

[Snowball]

Guthrie starting we have had a little more possession
48% versus 44% but this is a false stat as in one game
(Stoke) we had a dizzy 59% which ups the average.

The possession difference otherwise is 46-44%

But RESULTS wise? Guthrie ran a game where we couldn't beat Stoke
and then started in all four of our defeats, being subbed late twice,
after which, in one case we scored.

When he has started we have averaged 0.2 ppg. Without him we are averaging five times as much

Guthrie on the Pitch.

P5 D1 L4 3 Goals For but 10 Goals Against - (Alf scored after Guthrie went off)

0.2 points per game

H 59% 1-1 Stoke ALF (McCleary)
A 47% 2-4 Chelsea Pog (McCleary) GUTHRIE {McAnuff)
H 42% 1-3 Spurs HRK (ALF) Subbed off on 83 Mins
A 50% 0-1 WBA
A 44% 0-1 Liverpool Subbed off on 83 Mins

Guthrie Out.

1 Point per game (5 times better?)

P3 D3 L0 7 Goals For - 7 Goals Against (Plus 1 Goal when Guthrie had gone off = 8F - 7A)

H 41% 2-2 Newcastle KEBE (McAnuff) HUNT (McAnuff)
A 40% 2-2 Swansea POG (McAnuff) HUNT (McAnuff)
H 46% 3-3 Fulham ELWOOD (McAnuff) McCLEARY (Roberts) HRK

[Royal Lady]

Anyone who doesn't believe it, after hearing McD's interview after the game, is an idiot imo.

Quite clearly, there is a problem. Guthrie wasn't even on the bench. He has clearly been told to adapt his style of play to the way that McD wants him to play, as Guthrie himself tweeted a few weeks ago. If he's moaned about it to McD or anyone else, I don't blame him. It's the way he may have gone about it that may be questionable. If he's ranted and raved and sworn to McD, then McD needs to reel him in.

I note that I joined HNA about 2 hrs before you in 2004 and that I have made about 10% of the volume of contribution that you have. Maybe that is because I don't jump to conclusions based on what I think I heard in an interview; that I keep my powder dry for when there is something to comment on; or, of course, simply that you have more time to make nearly 40,000 posts. Whichever way, there is no 'fact' on which to base the hardened attitudes developing on here. Making judgements on BMcD's interview post match (which didn't include any comment on Guthrie being banned from training) is a tad premature. Maybe there is scope to discuss whether that interview might have hinted that Guthrie has got issues - but no more than that yet.

My issue is that we have (as ever on this board) polarised views on whether Guthrie of BMcD is at fault for something we don't even know happened.

I'd already been on here before the meltdown that necessitated re-registering btw. I'm merely stating my opinions on the matter. If I am proved wrong, I am woman enough to admit that I was wrong - however, from what I have gleaned, seen and heard - I don't think I am wrong and I don't think Fordham would put his relationship with the club on the line if he was just making stuff up.

[sandman]

McDermott has done so much for us in the last few years yet we've got people here siding with a player who has been here five minutes and done Jack in the process. You only have to look at what happened at Guthrie's wedding to know he's a bad egg.

at this comment. You were present at his wedding then? And can personally vouch for him being a bad egg?

Presumably you were there and can tell us what an Angel he is?

[Royal Lady]

It's not a mountain out of a molehill when our centre midfield options are reduced to

Leigitwood
Tabb
Mcanuff
Gunarsson

That is nowhere near adequate in this division.

The question was why Guthrie wasn't in the squad on Saturday....that's the molehill that Dellor was trying to have a dig around...

I'm sure there are some issues around Guthrie (his little outburst on Twitter more than hints at that) - Brian is probably, quite rightly so, trying to keep a lid on it, and probably sees it as unhelpful when "the press" keep picking at the wound...that could explain why he sounded pissed off couldn't it?
I suspect Brian is more than aware that we're lacking in midfield personnel with Jem out for a bit, and the last thing he wants is the press agitating any situation which surrounds Guthrie any further. I'm sure nobody more than Brian would like to have him featuring as a starting player...problem is, look at his performance against Liverpool - in a situation where we desperately need a win, would you be prepared to take a gamble on a player coming good, where recently he's been unable to produce the goods?

My problem here is how polarised peoples views are, and how many seem to want to knock Brian at every opportunity.....

That's a bit of a generalisation. I stated only yesterday that I love Brian and what he has done for the club, in the same way I loved Coppell - but we can't just ignore that everything is going wrong - It really does seem that McD is increasingly out of his depth - I don't know whether a remedy would be bringing in another coach to help him out or what, but we need to do something, as he seems to have lost his way.