Playing on the same side? The last taboo

[RobRoyal]

Rob, do you really believe we are a progressive tolerant society?

It was partly a rhetorial move, I admit.

However as a progressive liberal there are far worse places to live (and not all that many better).

[harryroyal]

Snowball - I do not even begin to understand what point you are making. I will say again, what I said in my first post:- No-one can, or should be, discriminated against for an accident of birth that means they have a different sexuality to the Norm. However, lets take a look at this:-

A person born with an inclination to steal ( a kleptomaniac) is a criminal if he gives in to that compulsion but, if he does not, is a normal member of society.
A person born who has an inclination to have sex with children (a paedophile) is a criminal if he gives in to that compulsion but, if he does not, is a normal member of society.
A person born who has an inclination to commit buggery with a consenting adult must be treated as more important than normal people and laws must be enacted to officially make him more normal than real normal people - uh, yes! That is Political Correctness. Why not let the co-buggerers have adopted children so that they can pretend even more to be normal - who cares about the children, they're just a fashionable accessory.

That's where your argument is flawed. Paedophilia and robbery has a negative effect on society, having sex with another consenting adult, whether it's gay or not has no negative effect on society.

EDIT: Also as long as there's people like you who try to make gayness "unormal" and "weird" we will never have a society where kids won't feel different for having two dads and won't get bullied. So at this moment in time i agree it's unfair on the kid for a gay couple to adopt.

[RobRoyal]

Snowball - I do not even begin to understand what point you are making. I will say again, what I said in my first post:- No-one can, or should be, discriminated against for an accident of birth that means they have a different sexuality to the Norm. However, lets take a look at this:-

A person born with an inclination to steal ( a kleptomaniac) is a criminal if he gives in to that compulsion but, if he does not, is a normal member of society.
A person born who has an inclination to have sex with children (a paedophile) is a criminal if he gives in to that compulsion but, if he does not, is a normal member of society.
A person born who has an inclination to commit buggery with a consenting adult must be treated as more important than normal people and laws must be enacted to officially make him more normal than real normal people - uh, yes! That is Political Correctness. Why not let the co-buggerers have adopted children so that they can pretend even more to be normal - who cares about the children, they're just a fashionable accessory.

What you're actually talking about, of course, is the removal of laws which made gay people different to straight people. Not laws to make gays "more normal" or "more important." But since the battle for equal rights doesn't directly concern you, how impertinent these gays must seem, constantly going on about their right to have families and things like that, as if they're the most important people in the world!

The sheer fact that you place men who have sex with men in a triumverate with thieves and child-rapists speaks volumes. It's a rather disgusting gambit.

[beatnik]

I don't know whether to be angry at you for such hate-filled drivel, sad for you or just disgusted that I have to breath the same air.

[RobRoyal]

The Siege, the truth is, one day geneticists or other scientists will find the cause and will be able to prevent it. Bigots will simply disappear and this whole thread will look like people talking on the net for the sake of it.

By the way, other than 'it just is'' can you explain why homosexuality is wrong, given that it doesn't actually hurt anyone, unlike thieving and child-fiddling, which you charmingly threw into the same bucket?

[chilipepper91]

Just...

[Para Handy]

I'll treat your post respectfully, on this occasion, because I don't mind expanding what I was saying. My Grandfather played local football and supported RFC, my Father played at Arsenal, in the War Years (I never found out how or why) and supported RFC. Both served our Country in World Wars so that Britain would never be invaded by foreigners - We were an Island who had kept everyone at bay for 2000 years (with an occasional blip) and, in that time had invented most of the technology of the time, had an education system that others could only dream about and, most importantly, we were a society who knew right from wrong!

I grew up in a land where as a Primary school pupil I could walk six miles home from School without ending up in a body-bag!

The Politically-correct society we now live in is far,far from my youth. England is a dumping ground for the trailer-trash of the known Universe - all here to make themselves wealthy at our expense. Every green field is being built on to provide houses for the huge influx of foreign Criminals who have arrived and require luxury and I have to chaperone evry one of my children everywhere so that they actually return home safely!

When I first stood on the terraces of Elm Park, an England as it is now would have been unthinkable but, every fan alongside me would have fought to prevent it! Every bl**dy fan! In those days we were proud of who we were!

Thanks m8. You never disappoint... I've no idea what you're ranting on about now. Is it how we should hark back to the days when all criminals were English? I yearn for the early sixties when you could be only be abducted by a Kray, a Richardson et al.

I still can't see what you're on about in the context of the thread. I guess that was a wildly optimistic of hope of mine though.

[Para Handy]

I'll treat your post respectfully, on this occasion, because I don't mind expanding what I was saying. My Grandfather played local football and supported RFC, my Father played at Arsenal, in the War Years (I never found out how or why) and supported RFC. Both served our Country in World Wars so that Britain would never be invaded by foreigners - We were an Island who had kept everyone at bay for 2000 years (with an occasional blip) and, in that time had invented most of the technology of the time, had an education system that others could only dream about and, most importantly, we were a society who knew right from wrong!

I grew up in a land where as a Primary school pupil I could walk six miles home from School without ending up in a body-bag!

The Politically-correct society we now live in is far,far from my youth. England is a dumping ground for the trailer-trash of the known Universe - all here to make themselves wealthy at our expense. Every green field is being built on to provide houses for the huge influx of foreign Criminals who have arrived and require luxury and I have to chaperone evry one of my children everywhere so that they actually return home safely!

When I first stood on the terraces of Elm Park, an England as it is now would have been unthinkable but, every fan alongside me would have fought to prevent it! Every bl**dy fan! In those days we were proud of who we were!

Thanks m8. You never disappoint... I've no idea what you're ranting on about now. Is it how we should hark back to the days when all criminals were English? I yearn for the early sixties when you could be only be abducted by a Kray, a Richardson et al.

I still can't see what you're on about in the context of the thread. I guess that was a wildly optimistic hope of mine though.

[Ian Herring]

Mitt Romney's got a hobnob alias...

[marcusopp]

I tell you what, all this talk about racism and bigotry being a thing of the past is quickly removed by 'the siege'. shocking.
The thread was about gay guys in football and how they shouldn't be made to live in the closet. The siege is somehow got that onto immigration and paedophiles. This sums up the views of a horrible minority of our population, which is why things like racism and homophobia are here to stay.
So tell me, the siege, are you a practicing christian who has never broken the ten commandments? Do you feel that religion is still relevant in 2012 when we have scientific explanations for most things? I hope you don't live anywhere near me, because my son is mixed race, or a 'wog' as you'd probably refer to him, and i hate to think that this little boy could be the victim of racist abuse by a cnut like you.
Feck off and support Millwall, you'll fit right in there.

[From Despair To Where?]

But don't forget, foreigners, criminality, homosexuality and paedophiles are 21st Century products of the politically correct liberal loonies. Never happened in my day.

I mean, it's a made up fact that all homosexuals are paedophiles innit?

[Millsy]

Pointless thread. What does ones sexuality have to do with anything.

And why should anyone be "proud" that we have gay players?? It's simply irrelevant.

[mr_number]

Is there not a case for banning TheSiege? He consistently manages to drag down the already impressively low standard of discussion on this board.

[melonhead]

Any difference from the norm is, by definition, a difference from the norm. .

the norm doesnt exist as you believe it. there are averages, and percentages, but everyone is different, thats the beauty of humanity.
the norm is 2.4 children-yet no one has this number of children, so we are all deviant from the norm.
the norm is for a percentage of society to be gay-eradicating gays would eb deviant from the norm.

A person born who has an inclination to commit buggery with a consenting adult must be treated as more important than normal people and laws must be enacted to officially make him more normal than real normal people -

no, just treated the same

In every case, you can have the strength of will to live a normal life OR you can simply give in to your perversion.

what are you ? a oxf*rd amish?

[mr_number]

Is there not a case for banning TheSiege? He consistently manages to drag down the already impressively low standard of discussion on this board.

He's so obviously on a wind up, trawling in fishies, that it's not worth giving him the satisfaction.

True. Can you still do that ignore thing on here? Can't seem to work out how...

[melonhead]

It must be awful being TheSeige, being terrified of anything remotely different from him be they atheists, liberals, "foreign criminals", local criminals, and worst of all "the Gays"!

Nothing terrifies me except my Childrens futures. Growing up and trying to have a life in an England that is rapidly becoming a third-world country because people like you have absolutely no sense of National identity. When you are sacked so that Poles or Ukrainians can be employed far more cheaply, tell me how good it feels! When your bank account is emptied by Nigerian fraudsters, please tell us all how happy you are!

The above were widely-known factual examples but, to enlighten you all, they do not refer to my personal experience.

LOL!

LOL!


my sense of national identity is made stronger, and i am more proud of it, precicely because gay people can live unencumbered by religious guilt, that people of all creeds and colours can come here because they wont be persecuted.

there are more acts of fraud in this country by white english people than there will ever be nigerians. and if you look into it deeply, the emails you refer to arent written by nigerians at all.

[melonhead]

I grew up in a land where as a Primary school pupil I could walk six miles home from School without ending up in a body-bag!

and you still can-statistics show that child abduction and murder hasnt increased in that time, merely that the media makes you aware of it more.people stop thjeir kids walking home because of the fear of crime, rather than the reality

The Politically-correct society we now live in is far,far from my youth. England is a dumping ground for the trailer-trash of the known Universe - all here to make themselves wealthy at our expense. Every green field is being built on to provide houses for the huge influx of foreign Criminals who have arrived and require luxury

wtf?!
have you ever driven/railed across or flown over this country?

Yes you moronic imbecile, it's farmland that produces our food, National Parks, The Forestry Commision and areas in which building would be stupid or impossible i.e Mountains. We are already building on the pathetically small amount of Greenbelt that there is and flood plains have already been concreted over which is why so many homes are being flooded! All to house Financial Migrants that the country neither wants nor needs.

no need to be rude, on top of ignorant and bigoted m8.
the majority of the country is open and green. FACT

and we do need them, very much. we dont produce enough children

[melonhead]

have you ever driven/railed across or flown over this country?
its half empty!

Thank f88k for that. There's enough of this country concreted over. Imagine what it would be like if it was completely concreted over. In other words, imagine what life will be like in say 100 years' time. There will be history, not nature, programmes on tigers, etc. Thank Christ I won't be around to see it. Mind you, there will probably have been a nuclear war by then wiping out most, if not all, of the world's human population along with all other creatures. The Ruskies in the Cold War will have nothing on the religious fundamentalists once they get their hands on nuclear weapons...

in no way will this country ever be concreted over, we'll stagnate and die before that ever happens. even quicker without immigration to supplement our population and workforce

[mr_number]

Cheers.

[melonhead]

The problem about a 'Perfect World' is that people have to stand up and get rid of the 'wrongs' to make it so!

Unser nationalsozialistisches Programm setzt an Stelle des liberalistischen Begriffes des Individuums und des marxistischen Begriffes der Menschheit das blutbedingte und mit dem Boden verbundene Volk. Ein sehr einfacher und lapidarer Satz, allein von gewaltigen Auswirkungen. Zum erstenmal vielleicht, seit es eine Menschengeschichte gibt, ist in diesem Lande die Erkenntnis dahin gelenkt worden, daß von allen Aufgaben, die uns gestellt sind, die erhabenste und damit für den Menschen heiligste, die Erhaltung der von Gott gegebenen blutgebundenen Art ist.

Zum erstenmal ist es in diesem Reiche möglich, daß der Mensch die ihm vom Allmächtigen verliehene Gabe des Erkennens und der Einsicht jenen Fragen zuwendet, die für die Erhaltung seiner Existenz von gewaltigerer Bedeutung sind als alle siegreichen Kriege oder erfolgreichen Wirtschaftsschlachten! Die größte Revolution des Nationalsozialismus ist es, das Tor der Erkenntnis dafür aufgerissen zu haben, daß alle Fehler und Irrtümer der Menschen zeitbedingt und damit wieder verbesserungsfähig sind, außer einem einzigen: dem Irrtum über die Bedeutung der Erhaltung seines Blutes, seiner Art und damit der ihm von Gott gegebenen Gestalt und des ihm von Gott geschenkten Wesens. Wir Menschen haben nicht darüber zu rechten, warum die Vorsehung die Rassen schuf, sondern nur zu erkennen,- daß sie den bestraft, der ihre Schöpfung mißachtet.

Unsagbares Leid und Elend sind über die Menschheit gekommen, weil sie diese im Instinkt zutiefst verankerte Einsicht durch eine schlechte intellektuelle Halbbildung verlor. heute leben in unserem Volk Millionen und aber Millionen Menschen, denen diese Gesetze klar und verständlich geworden sind. Was einzelnen Sehern oder unverdorben Ahnenden aber als Erkenntnis aufging, ist heute Arbeitsgebiet der deutschen Wissenschaft geworden. Und ich spreche es hier prophetisch aus:

So wie die Erkenntnis des Umlaufs der Erde um die Sonne zu einer umwälzenden Neugestaltung des allgemeinen Weltbildes führte, so wird sich aus der Blut- und Rassenlehre der nationalsozialistischen Bewegung eine Umwälzung der Erkenntnisse und damit des Bildes der Geschichte der menschlichen Vergangenheit und ihrer Zukunft ergeben.

Und dies wird nicht zu einer Entfremdung der Völker, sondern im Gegenteil zum ersten Male zu einem wahren gegenseitigen Verstehen führen! Es wird dann allerdings aber auch verhindern, daß das jüdische Volk unter der Maske eines biederen Weltbürgers alle anderen Völker innerlich zu zersetzen und dadurch zu beherrschen versucht!