1st reason why McDermott should go - No Guthrie

[Wimb]

I am certainly not saying Guthrie isn't a good player

But we need a midfield that can play but ALSO win the ball

So surely Guthrie + a ball winner (or two if we go 451) makes more sense for now than two 'tacklers'?

That was clearly what Brian was trying when he was going 4-4-2 with Ledge and Guthrie but as mentioned above he binned it off after 2 games, 1 a 1-0 defeat at a top 6 West Brom side and the second after a Federici howler utterly changed the game v Stoke.

Doesn't suggest it was given a great deal of chance to grow....

[DOYLERSAROYALER]

Good points about the failure of the recruitment policy Wimb, but I'm not sure the blame can sit with Hammond etc for not forcing players on him.

The last thing we really want is the manager being undermined and the board over stepping the mark.

Oh no I agree that Brian has to have the final say but there should be senior figures at the club who were around in 2006-08 that should be suggesting that we have a bit more depth. I'd like to think Brian went for others but didn't have the funds rather than thinking he had it all sorted with the squad we went in with. If it's the former than he deserves little stick but if it's the later then he deserves a bit more criticism for failing to ensure we had depth at a very key position.

Reading boss Brian McDermott says this summer's signings are all his.

McDermott hasn’t been short of agents contacting him offering their clients’ services since promotion to the Premier League and Anton Zingarevich’s £25million buyout either.

“I’ve had a lot of agents in touch, loads even,” said McDermott to Getreading.

“But each and every player that I have got have all been targets of mine. All the players I went for, I got. Anyone I didn’t want I didn’t go for.”


...bed made I'd say

[Vision]

I think the point is that it could be argued the failure isn't entirely on Guthrie's shoulders.

Was he bad enough to be dropped?
- No, I don't think so. He was more dropped because we needed to revert back to form - the 'new' formation wasn't working and it was neccesary for him to make way for our old setup. Therefore, I don't think it would be fair to say he was dropped because he specifically was playing badly.

Was he given enough time?
- Dunno. He didn't seem to fit a 4-4-2, but hardly exhausted his chance to adapt and improve.

Is the club being over-strict with him?
- Possibly. I'd hardly call his tweet an 'outburst' and it does seem daft to eliminate him from the bench, especially when what Reading need is a midfielder to complete a 4-5-1 formation when needing to hold posession and the lead.


Few are saying Guthrie could turn the season around, but it has to be said his availability could have and would help us take up the 4-5-1 which may have rescued points in the past and could also in the future.

You have to ask yourself whether Brian is taking the right stance on the issue - I personally wish he'd work quicker at resolving any issues and look to move on from it for the good of the club rather than holding a grudge and reducing our options in an already threadbare area.

Totally agree with that last bit. However we really only see what Guthrie's reaction is like via a couple of tweets. We really don't know what his reaction has been like on the training ground and around the other players. As you say it would seem a bit odd for McD to be deliberately leaving him out just to prove a point when he himself has said we lack quality. McD's not an idiot.

And all that's assuming we don't buy the "Guthries injured" line.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Just a few points:

1. If 4 games were not enough reason to drop Feds, why are they enough to drop Guthrie? Fed’s played a hell of a lot worse in my opinion.

2. I wouldn’t be starting him either. I’d be smart enough to sort shit out quickly and have the guy on the bench though. I’d see it as a failure of my management if the conclusion of the situation was telling the guy to f/ck off.

3. I still maintain that abandoning the two formations we trialled with Guthrie was a knee-jerk reaction and if Guthrie believes he was unfairly treated, I agree with him.

[melonhead]

agree on point 1
partly on point 3
and surely point 2 depends entirely on how gay guthrie was being about it in training, and just how disrepectful he had been to brian in front of other players.
just saying brian should back down and sort it out is a bit silly without knowing those things.

[Extended-Phenotype]

You don't think man-management is a responsibility of a manager?

If McD is failing to get the best out of somebody, perhaps McD should be taking some of the blame?

[melonhead]

You don't think man-management is a responsibility of a manager?

If McD is failing to get the best out of somebody, perhaps McD should be taking some of the blame?

actually thats a very one eyed view of management
like i said, sometimes people are just oxf*rd, and if hes been intentionaly disrespectful to the manager in front of other employees in a way that cant be gone back on, id consider it incredibly poor management to just let him back into the fold without some public move towards reconcilliation from him. in that case good management would be to remove him from the company asap, before his poisonous attitude spread and infected the rest of the loyal hardworking employees

although, just like you, i have no idea what happened, so it may not be like that at all.
& he injured.

[Extended-Phenotype]

He isn't injured.

[Woodcote Royal]

Which is great news on two counts.

1. A Player being injured is never a good thing.

2. This means Guthrie has been dropped and Brian is playing what he sees as his best available side.......................which certainly shouldn't include Guthrie.

As someone who rarely starts a new thread, I've been sorely tempted to make an exception to suggest that there's a bigger case for McDermott getting sacked for playing Guthrie than leaving him with the rest who don't currently warrant involvement in the match day squad.........................but I can't be arsed.

One defeat amongst 5 draws and that against Liverpool when the decidedly average Guthrie got his last start No wonder McDermott has little time for this site.

[Extended-Phenotype]

For the 8 millionth time - the point, Supermassive Bumhole, is that Guthrie would give us options on the faakmdfmkksd

Nah, lost interest.

[Woodcote Royal]

And my point, shlt head, is that he doesn't.

HTH............but I won't hold my breath.

[surrounded by saints]

He isn't injured.

my thoughts also. seemed to be very conveniently injured when rumours of a falling out with the manager started. has guthrie actually been reported as saying...yes, i am injured....?

[Extended-Phenotype]

And my point, shlt head, is that he doesn't.

HTH............but I won't hold my breath.

He doesn't give us options on the bench, were he to be on the bench? Pretty stupid point.

[Hoop Blah]

People have been arguing that Guthrie will make us hold the ball a lot more

Basically wrong.

IF we win the ball, and THEN hold it

So what's missing in this?

One less ball-winner (so obviously, when the opposition has the ball it takes us longer to get it back)

Second, ONE "ball-holder" (and I don't think Guthrie has shown ball-holding abilities, anyway) makes very
little difference, since he is going to pass to one of ten players who DOESN'T retain possession.


So, overall, I think, playing Guthrie, we'd get LESS possession.

It's true the rest of the side need to be able to make runs to encourage a pass, receive the pass effectively and then be competent enough to make another, but one player can change the dynamic of a side and encourage others to play. Especially if that player is a central midfielder.

From midfield a player comfortable in possession can make a big difference in the way fullbacks and centre halfs use the ball and that completely changes the knock it into the channels style our side is based on.

If the others in our side aren't capable of doing it (and I think some struggle at this level to be fair) then brining Guthrie in just looks like a mistake.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Silly complex way to look at things.

Correct way to look at it would be that an extra man in midfield would aid possession, lock down the midfield more, ease the pressure on two exhausted CM’s, and on the account of his statistically proven better passing, increase our chances of doing something on the ball.

Kiss and make up, Brian. We aren't Man U and can't really afford to act like players don't matter.

[Woodcote Royal]

And my point, shlt head, is that he doesn't.

HTH............but I won't hold my breath.

He doesn't give us options on the bench, were he to be on the bench? Pretty stupid point.

Just to be clear (to one of our many resident fcuk wits) I don't think Guthrie has done anything to justify starting or being on the bench as, on evidence so far, the main alternative he offers is an increased risk of defeat.............................possibly a stupid point to a Grade "A" twat like yourself, who is in need of a decent mirror to re-evaluate the size of his own bum hole.

[melonhead]

He isn't injured.

cheers mystic meg

[melonhead]

He isn't injured.

my thoughts also. seemed to be very conveniently injured when rumours of a falling out with the manager started. has guthrie actually been reported as saying...yes, i am injured....?

except the rumours of faling out with the manager came out before that, we were told hed been dropped due to the falling out with the manager, then we were told he was dropped
in that sequence, making up the injured lie makes no sense

[melonhead]

Kiss and make up, Brian. We aren't Man U and can't really afford to act like players don't matter.

again- that depends utterly on what was said, how it was said, in front of whom and whethetr theres been any move towards reconciliation



and whether hes injured

[Hoop Blah]

Silly complex way to look at things.

Correct way to look at it would be that an extra man in midfield would aid possession, lock down the midfield more, ease the pressure on two exhausted CM’s, and on the account of his statistically proven better passing, increase our chances of doing something on the ball.

Kiss and make up, Brian. We aren't Man U and can't really afford to act like players don't matter.

It might be a bit complex for you, but it is true. I've played in sides where the one player really does get the best out of others and quite dramtically change the way they play.

The option of throwing the extra man into midfield to shore things up is a slightly different scenario and you're right, basically should mean we hold onto the ball and make it more difficult to break us down just by virtue of having the extra body in way.