Alfie (I Still love you)

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RoyallyFcuked
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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 17 Jul 2015 15:31

SCIAG Erm, yes I can.

When they were here, we mostly used two defensive midfielders and, except for Bertrand, defensive full backs. Kebe and McAnuff were our only sources of creativity... and we got to the playoff final and then got promoted (and had another playoff campaign under Kebe, 7th place with McAnuff, and a playoff-form second half of the season after Rodgers was sacked). Kebe was twice second in the POTS voting.

Just to prove it, here are their individual stats:

Jimmy Kebe
2008-09 41 appearances 2 goals 11 assists
2009-10 42 appearances 10 goals not very many assists
2010-11 36 appearances 9 goals 7 assists
2011-12 33 appearances 3 goals 10 assists
2012-13 16 appearances 5 goals 2 assists

Jobi McAnuff
2009-10 36 appearances 3 goals 10 assists
2010-11 40 appearances 4 goals 9 assists (plus a goal in the play offs)
2011-12 40 appearances 5 goals 11 assists
2012-13 38 appearances 0 goals 7 assists
2013-14 35 appearances 2 goals ? assists

You don't get those sorts of numbers unless you are a quality winger at this level.

As for inconsistency, would argue Kebe's biggest flaw in his final three seasons for us was that he was too much of a steady Eddie, 7/10 performances most weeks and not enough 8 or 9/10s. McAnuff was the epitome of consistent, it would have been nice if he could shoot...

tl;dr: you don't know what you're talking about.


LOL they were our only sources of creativity because of the way we played, McDermott made it so. Which is why he and those two players got exposed in the PL. Fair enough though, I won't argue with the stats up until 2011-12 as we did end up promoted (although it still applies that they were both inconsistant, your stats over 46 games don't prove otherwise) and I actually enjoyed some of the performances from both players over the years, particularly in the 2010-11 season.

However, its also still true that they are overrated (just by Reading fans). Flashes of quality from McAnuff were all too few and far between in my opinion, he often went missing and did next to nothing. The same could be said of Kebe, who usually only looked interested one game in every five we played. Would say Kebe had too many 5 or 6/10 and not enough 8 or 9/10 all through his Reading career, not just the last 3 seasons. You're right McAnuff was consistantly a 6 or 7/10 most of the time before getting worse. Basically, when they were on their game they were decent players at champ level, sadly this wasnt often enough.

I admit my memories of McAnuff might be somewhat tainted by his poor performances in his last two seasons. For example in the Premier League he played in I think virtually every minute of every game and despite being the captain should have been dropped along with one or two other regulars well before the end of season. If you want to check stats then it will tell you that 0 goals and 7 assists in 38 games made McAnuff our worst winger that season. Although I had to shoot down some on here that were wondering why he wasnt in the running for POTS :lol: I'm guessing you were among them, what was that you said? You don't know what you're talking about? :roll:

I've had this arguement on here before, and people have agreed with me. I've also met people at games who also went regularly that shared the same opinion, so please continue to look at WhoScored.com through your blue and white tinted glasses and convince yourself otherwise.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by SCIAG » 17 Jul 2015 16:59

Forbury Lion
SCIAG
Jagermesiter1871
Considering ALF's bit part, he... is probably the best out and out striker we've seen at the club.

Erm, Kitson, Doyle, Long, Quinn, Lovell, Fozzy, Roberts?
Cureton?

Alf's goal record at this level was better and he played (well) in the PL. I definitely see the argument for him being better.

RoyallyFcuked LOL they were our only sources of creativity because of the way we played, McDermott made it so. Which is why he and those two players got exposed in the PL.

Yes, I didn't imply that they were soooooo good that they made Legs and Karacan unable to split a defence :| McDermott could set up a very defensive side because we had two excellent wingers who didn't need help creating chances.

Kebe didn't get exposed in the PL under us, one goal every three games is outstanding.

The same could be said of Kebe, who usually only looked interested one game in every five we played.

It doesn't matter what you think he looked like, what matters is how well he played. Two full McDermott seasons at Championship level, he scored or set up a goal every 2.3 matches. That's better than Convey in 2005/06, and it's over two seasons, not one. Across his whole Reading career, he scored a goal every 6 matches. Michael Gilkes scored one every 9 matches. No two ways about it, Kebe was our second best winger, ever.

Basically, when they were on their game they were decent players at champ level, sadly this wasnt often enough.

Again, rubbish. Look at the results they got. Loads of goals and assists, a playoff final, and a Championship medal. They were more than "enough" and "decent".

If you want to check stats then it will tell you that 0 goals and 7 assists in 38 games made McAnuff our worst winger that season.

Wrong, it's a better record than McCleary. And ofc that completely ignores his role for us. Kebe and McAnuff spent large parts of the season doing donkey work in a defensive 4-5-1 (this was absolutely the right thing to do imo, we got a lot of points this way) before we'd bring on HRK and ALF and switch to an attacking 4-4-2. Inevitably, this meant their numbers suffered along with Pog's and HRK and ALF benefited - particularly as they took penalties.

I've had this arguement on here before, and people have agreed with me. I've also met people at games who also went regularly that shared the same opinion,

That just proves there are other people who know nothing about football on HNA and at the Mad Stad.

If you think it's possible for wingers who are guaranteed starters in four top half finishes, including a title, to be "average" and "too inconsistent" then you have no idea what those words mean.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by Ian Royal » 17 Jul 2015 18:00

RoyallyFcuked you've also been told you're talking utter drivel when you've mentioned it before.

The facts are that Kebe and McAnuff's records demonstrate they're two of our best wingers ever. They are fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Little, Convey and Gilkes and in fact probably round out the top 5 with those three. Although McCleary, SHunt, Meaker* and Salako can probably be a little disappointed to miss out.

I could produce testimony from someone who's a regular at the Mad Stad who thinks McAnuff is the worst winger we had for 10 - 15 years. That's not evidence of his ability or quality. It's evidence you can always find a clueless opinion if you look hard enough.















* :wink:

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 19 Jul 2015 16:13

I think you are both confusing "what the team achieved" with "how good an individual player was". The team ending up promoted or finishing in the top 6 doesnt automatically mean that those two wingers are the best to play for Reading, the same as it doesnt mean they were the best in the division at the time.

Don't forget that we were fairly below par for about half of the 2010-11 and 2011-12 seasons before the team pulled their finger out, those players were a part of that success don't get me wrong, but just because of what the team achieved in the past it doesnt mean you can't critisize players when their performance wasn't good enough in a game or when they have a bad run of form, which did happen to both on a number of occasions. Including in the PL, not so much Kebe as he did pretty well in the time he played but McAnuff was among the worst performers that season (sorry but 0goals 7assists means he was worse than McCleary who had 3goals 2assists in about half the amount of minutes.)

Large parts of the season doing donkey work? :lol: Kebe was lazy unless we were attacking and McAnuff was no better, his contribution was poor in all areas that season and, we didnt get a load of points that season, we were crap for the majority of it and got relegated. Btw ALF took 3 pens and HRK took 1 so not much of stats boost, but your stats still show ALF was more effective than Pog and HRK was more effective than McAnuff in far less minutes.

Anyway the main point I was making was, if you can say that someone like Le Fondre is overrated by our fans then you can also say it about those two players who are far more overrated by a larger majority of our fans.

FYI I already know their are people on HNA that are clueless, you two prove that. Also I rarely go the Mad Stad these days, I watch us at away games, but I think myself and those people are in a better position to comment than either of you, seeing as we went to the games and you didn't.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by Ian Royal » 19 Jul 2015 16:22

It's clear your view is entrenched. When you start calling McAnuff lazy and quoting him as our top assister in the PL then saying he was amongst the worst performers of the season it's just a demonstration of how blinkered you are, fornall to see. At which point it's clear there's no point in a discussion as you're obviously beyond reason.

Tart it up in as many words as you like, it doesn't make Kebe and McAnuff any less good players than the top wingers they were for us.


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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by sandman » 19 Jul 2015 16:45

RofloyaLOLy Fcuked really pushing the England cricket team for the most embarrassing performance of the week.
Last edited by sandman on 19 Jul 2015 17:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 19 Jul 2015 17:18

Ian Royal It's clear your view is entrenched. When you start calling McAnuff lazy and quoting him as our top assister in the PL then saying he was amongst the worst performers of the season it's just a demonstration of how blinkered you are, fornall to see. At which point it's clear there's no point in a discussion as you're obviously beyond reason.

Tart it up in as many words as you like, it doesn't make Kebe and McAnuff any less good players than the top wingers they were for us.


I didnt say that. I said they had bad runs of form and whether he got 7 assists or not m8, McAnuff was awful that season. No matter how much you want to sit there and kid yourself how good he was because he's your favourite player.

Entrenched and blinkered are two words I would use to describe your view. The word deluded also springs to mind. Basically, the point was those players are not as good as you and the like make them out to be.

sandman RofloyaLOLy Fcuked really pushing the English cricket team for the most embarrassing performance of the week.


Nice to hear from you again SADman, I must be beating you at your own game this week.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by Ian Royal » 19 Jul 2015 18:40

RoyallyFcuked
Ian Royal It's clear your view is entrenched. When you start calling McAnuff lazy and quoting him as our top assister in the PL then saying he was amongst the worst performers of the season it's just a demonstration of how blinkered you are, fornall to see. At which point it's clear there's no point in a discussion as you're obviously beyond reason.

Tart it up in as many words as you like, it doesn't make Kebe and McAnuff any less good players than the top wingers they were for us.


I know you are, but what am I?

sandman RofloyaLOLy Fcuked really pushing the English cricket team for the most embarrassing performance of the week.


Nice to hear from you again SADman, I must be beating you at your own game this week.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 19 Jul 2015 19:51

Good one Ian RoyaLOL

Change your HNA display picture back m8, it doesn't suit you.


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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by sandman » 19 Jul 2015 20:38

:lol:

SADman

Well you sure got me.

You're still laughably wrong on the abilities of Kebe and Mcanuff and their role in the team at the time though.

But hey at least you came up with a "witty" insult.
Last edited by sandman on 19 Jul 2015 20:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by SCIAG » 19 Jul 2015 20:39

RoyallyFcuked FYI I already know their are people on HNA that are clueless, you two prove that. Also I rarely go the Mad Stad these days, I watch us at away games, but I think myself and those people are in a better position to comment than either of you, seeing as we went to the games and you didn't.

OK, it's one thing saying you don't think Jobi McAnuff was very good, it's a whole other thing to try to tell me I didn't go to a few hundred matches :|

RoyallyFcuked Change your HNA display picture back m8, it doesn't suit you.

I agree, but it's a bit rich coming from the guy with the worst profile picture on here.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by Ian Royal » 19 Jul 2015 22:10

RoyallyFcuked Also I rarely go the Mad Stad these days, I watch us at away games, but I think myself and those people are in a better position to comment than either of you, seeing as we went to the games and you didn't.

Oh, just FYI, I'm into my third year as an STH and the previous two or three seasons I probably saw about 30 games each between going live, live streaming and watching the matches in full after the event on Reading Player.

Don't seriously buy into the joke that I never see us play.

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 19 Jul 2015 22:15

sandman :lol:

SADman

Well you sure got me.

You're still laughably wrong on the abilities of Kebe and Mcanuff and their role in the team at the time though.

But hey at least you came up with a "witty" insult.


I always get you SADman, but you still come back for more.

I thought coming up with "witty" insults was what you try to do? RofloyaLOLy Fcuked? Well you sure got me.

I don't think that I'm wrong, I just think you just don't like hearing the truth in this case.

SCIAG OK, it's one thing saying you don't think Jobi McAnuff was very good, it's a whole other thing to try to tell me I didn't go to a few hundred matches :|


Fair enough SCIAG if you went to the games, I just don't understand then how you can think we were anything other than crap for most of that season and McAnuff, a long with other important parts of our Championship team like Leigertwood and Gorkss just wernt good enough which they showed, and therefore shouldnt have played as much as they did.

RoyallyFcuked Change your HNA display picture back m8, it doesn't suit you.


SCIAG I agree, but it's a bit rich coming from the guy with the best profile picture on here.


:lol:

and corrected for you :wink:


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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyallyFcuked » 19 Jul 2015 22:41

Ian Royal
RoyallyFcuked Also I rarely go the Mad Stad these days, I watch us at away games, but I think myself and those people are in a better position to comment than either of you, seeing as we went to the games and you didn't.

Oh, just FYI, I'm into my third year as an STH and the previous two or three seasons I probably saw about 30 games each between going live, live streaming and watching the matches in full after the event on Reading Player.

Don't seriously buy into the joke that I never see us play.


Fair enough, I did know that you were now an STH and watch us a lot more than you used to. Was just tongue in cheek really :P

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by RoyalX » 20 Jul 2015 01:21

Whilst you lot have been getting your knickers in a twist over whether Kebe & McAnuff were any good, ALF has said he's looking to move back up north.

I don't think we qualify, sadly :(

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by Snowball » 20 Jul 2015 08:34

We're North of Southampton. Come on ALF...

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Re: Alfie (I Still love you)

by stealthpapes » 20 Jul 2015 09:11

I remember the games in the Premiership where we partnered him and Hunt up front.

They were great*.

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