Strangely optimistic about next season.

[Maneki Neko]

agreed.completely


and thats without the need for some stability/continuity, and a return to 'the reading financial way' etc

[Elm Park Kid]

I don't think McDermott is a genius or necessary the best person in the world to manage RFC; I just think it's got to a point where a club is better off having any manager for an extended period of time then chopping and changing. The only way a manager can get the best out of players is if they respect him and know that he's going to be around longer than they are. At least Brian is a decent, likable figure who represents many of the traits we want to see at the club, he also obviously has a track record that suggests he could succeed.

If the owners decided to go down the Leicester City route, spend £100m over a number of seasons and push for the big time, then i guess that they could find someone 'better' and bring in new managers as the situation requires. Honestly though i've had enough of that sort of stuff and would happy support a mediocre team where loyalty and continuity are valued higher than short term results.

[Top Flight]

Well I take a different approach to most fans. I don't really care about short term success or how pretty our style of football is. I like McDermott and i'd be happy just to see some stability at the club as long as we have players that want to be here. I don't see why a club with only the 11th highest attendance in the league and no 'sugar daddy' should be expecting promotion every season. If I was the owners of RFC i'd give McDermott a permanent contract which would only be cancelled if we went below league one.

A fair post that I agree with to some extent. I guess I'm different in the fact that I prefer to see decent football and I'd rather watch us play well as much as possible even if we lose a few games as apose to playing shit most of the time and deserving to lose or getting results that our performance usually didn't merit.

Also considering where we have been in the last 10 years or so I think the objective every season should be to challenge for promotion/play offs, and not to merely stay in the championship or even be mid table every season.

The reason i said "Don't tell me Brian is tactically inept" is because you said that Brian was tactically inept. So it all started with you Royally Fffffd up.

Stop accusing the tactical genius of being inept. He is an outstanding manager. He has proved it to you before and now he will prove it to you again. As the Royals go marching up up up.

I'm not the first person to say it pal, and I highly doubt I will be the last.

I've actually had more people agree with me than you have, which is saying something considering the amount of McDermott fanboys on here.

Have to admire your level of optimism and faith in the man, even if it is bordering on insanity.

Did we ever play good football under Brian? No. Were we ever exciting to watch? Rarely. Was there a lot of luck involved? Yes.

You're the one thats judgementally inept, your blind loyal love of the bald one is blinding you severely.

Whilst I'd agree that Top Flight's over the top defence of McDermott is ludicrous. It's only a match for what you've written there.

The final few months of the title season were the most thrilling, exciting few months of football we've ever had. I just can't imagine any Reading fan thinking otherwise.

In fairness you make a very good point. Perhaps most of us have selective memories and in this case I can't help but remember the negatives while others remember the positives. We have had some great times under Brian I wasn't saying we haven't. The second half of the title season was brilliant no question, West Ham away was one of the best games I've ever been to and we actually played really well that day, also Forest away the season before sticks in mind as one of the best ever.

The play off season and the title season were similar in the fact from being nowhere around Christmas we soared into contention with an 8 game win streak, so yes when things start going in our favour and the momentum is there Brian can build on it. It's when things are not going so well that I question his abilities.

If we take a look at why we were exciting in the title season, and we can compare the two title winning seasons we've had, the one under McD was exciting because the games were close and dramatic, we didn't dominate games and we didn't create that many chances but were very good at taking the ones we did create. If you look at it, often in games in that run in we'd have a lot less shots than the opposition but still get the result. (Southampton away for example, but with three superbly taken goals and poor finishing from the opposition it didn't matter). This continued into the Premier League season in the games we got results in as well. There were too many games in that season though, where there was a lack of ideas which left us with little chance, the way we played in the Championship was not enough anymore and Brian seemed to have no clue how to change it.

Meanwhile the season under Coppell we dominated games playing great football and always creating chances, and because of that you had always faith we could do the job. Of course there were times when we conceded but we'd just go up the other end and score again, this trait also continued somewhat into the first Premier League season. There was an air of confidence and belief about that side like nothing I've seen in my time watching Reading. The McDermott team didn't have that, although part of it is the fact that despite both sides having no real stars or stand out players the Coppell team was a more talented squad and had better quality overall.

I guess what I'm saying is, it wasn't a fluke when we went up under Brian but it feels like a one off. His basic football and tactics combined with some amazing team spirit from a bunch of decent enough at that level but mostly fairly limited footballers that felt they owed him somewhat plus a never say die attitude that meant we kept ourselves at least within reach in games right till the end and stole results with late goals. The chances of Brian creating something like that happen again, in the same way without really changing much seem very slim.

But the team spirit of the 106ers was brilliant as well, even better in fact, and they still had the never say die attitude, they just relied on it less because they had better quality than the 2012 team in all areas.

I agree that because McD over achieved massively, in a way he was a victim of his own success. Despite that, none of this changes the fact his style of football is boring and one dimensional and that he is limited in his abilty as a manager in my opinion, and what he has shown over time is that he cannot really adapt, he doesn't have a plan B.

If you get a team like the one that went up under Coppell playing the way that we were, it would win promotion from the Championship every time. The team that went up under McDermott would not.

If by some absolute miracle he takes us up again I'll happily declare my love for the man and say I'm sorry that I ever doubted him. I just cannot see it happening.

What the hell is your point?

Just to take you up on this paragraph that you wrote: Royally Fcuked up said "I agree that because McD over achieved massively, in a way he was a victim of his own success. Despite that, none of this changes the fact his style of football is boring and one dimensional and that he is limited in his abilty as a manager in my opinion, and what he has shown over time is that he cannot really adapt, he doesn't have a plan B. "

The reason McDermott is a great manager is because he can organise average players into a title winning team.

In the end it is the players that have to go out and perform. Their performance depends on their skill levels and capabilities, fitness and desire. McDermott did his job by making sure the tactics were right, the desire and hunger was there and that the players were fit enough. After that it comes down to what they are capable of. He really did take that group as far as he could based on their capabilities. That makes him a great manager for being able to do that.

I know you want certain types of football to be played in a certain way. But, our players were limited by their own abilities. Ian Harte was never going to go bombing down the left wing. Leigertwood was good, but he isn't as good as YaYa Toure. You want McDermott to adapt, but he played the most effective way that his players could manage. They got relegated in the end because they were not good enough. The next steps were to continue evolving the squad and try and improve the players. This part of the job of a manager takes time and transfer windows. You have to build brick by brick. You can't suddenly go from Noel Hunt to Aguero.

The great manager Rafa Benitez couldn't keep Newcastle up in the end. They went down with far better players than we had under McDermott.

[Maneki Neko]

I don't think McDermott is a genius or necessary the best person in the world to manage RFC; I just think it's got to a point where a club is better off having any manager for an extended period of time then chopping and changing. The only way a manager can get the best out of players is if they respect him and know that he's going to be around longer than they are. At least Brian is a decent, likable figure who represents many of the traits we want to see at the club, he also obviously has a track record that suggests he could succeed.

If the owners decided to go down the Leicester City route, spend £100m over a number of seasons and push for the big time, then i guess that they could find someone 'better' and bring in new managers as the situation requires. Honestly though i've had enough of that sort of stuff and would happy support a mediocre team where loyalty and continuity are valued higher than short term results.

Yarp. You are not alone.we are the quiet majority

[RoyallyFcuked]

Well I take a different approach to most fans. I don't really care about short term success or how pretty our style of football is. I like McDermott and i'd be happy just to see some stability at the club as long as we have players that want to be here. I don't see why a club with only the 11th highest attendance in the league and no 'sugar daddy' should be expecting promotion every season. If I was the owners of RFC i'd give McDermott a permanent contract which would only be cancelled if we went below league one.

A fair post that I agree with to some extent. I guess I'm different in the fact that I prefer to see decent football and I'd rather watch us play well as much as possible even if we lose a few games as apose to playing shit most of the time and deserving to lose or getting results that our performance usually didn't merit.

Also considering where we have been in the last 10 years or so I think the objective every season should be to challenge for promotion/play offs, and not to merely stay in the championship or even be mid table every season.

The reason i said "Don't tell me Brian is tactically inept" is because you said that Brian was tactically inept. So it all started with you Royally Fffffd up.

Stop accusing the tactical genius of being inept. He is an outstanding manager. He has proved it to you before and now he will prove it to you again. As the Royals go marching up up up.

I'm not the first person to say it pal, and I highly doubt I will be the last.

I've actually had more people agree with me than you have, which is saying something considering the amount of McDermott fanboys on here.

Have to admire your level of optimism and faith in the man, even if it is bordering on insanity.

Whilst I'd agree that Top Flight's over the top defence of McDermott is ludicrous. It's only a match for what you've written there.

The final few months of the title season were the most thrilling, exciting few months of football we've ever had. I just can't imagine any Reading fan thinking otherwise.

In fairness you make a very good point. Perhaps most of us have selective memories and in this case I can't help but remember the negatives while others remember the positives. We have had some great times under Brian I wasn't saying we haven't. The second half of the title season was brilliant no question, West Ham away was one of the best games I've ever been to and we actually played really well that day, also Forest away the season before sticks in mind as one of the best ever.

The play off season and the title season were similar in the fact from being nowhere around Christmas we soared into contention with an 8 game win streak, so yes when things start going in our favour and the momentum is there Brian can build on it. It's when things are not going so well that I question his abilities.

If we take a look at why we were exciting in the title season, and we can compare the two title winning seasons we've had, the one under McD was exciting because the games were close and dramatic, we didn't dominate games and we didn't create that many chances but were very good at taking the ones we did create. If you look at it, often in games in that run in we'd have a lot less shots than the opposition but still get the result. (Southampton away for example, but with three superbly taken goals and poor finishing from the opposition it didn't matter). This continued into the Premier League season in the games we got results in as well. There were too many games in that season though, where there was a lack of ideas which left us with little chance, the way we played in the Championship was not enough anymore and Brian seemed to have no clue how to change it.

Meanwhile the season under Coppell we dominated games playing great football and always creating chances, and because of that you had always faith we could do the job. Of course there were times when we conceded but we'd just go up the other end and score again, this trait also continued somewhat into the first Premier League season. There was an air of confidence and belief about that side like nothing I've seen in my time watching Reading. The McDermott team didn't have that, although part of it is the fact that despite both sides having no real stars or stand out players the Coppell team was a more talented squad and had better quality overall.

I guess what I'm saying is, it wasn't a fluke when we went up under Brian but it feels like a one off. His basic football and tactics combined with some amazing team spirit from a bunch of decent enough at that level but mostly fairly limited footballers that felt they owed him somewhat plus a never say die attitude that meant we kept ourselves at least within reach in games right till the end and stole results with late goals. The chances of Brian creating something like that happen again, in the same way without really changing much seem very slim.

But the team spirit of the 106ers was brilliant as well, even better in fact, and they still had the never say die attitude, they just relied on it less because they had better quality than the 2012 team in all areas.

I agree that because McD over achieved massively, in a way he was a victim of his own success. Despite that, none of this changes the fact his style of football is boring and one dimensional and that he is limited in his abilty as a manager in my opinion, and what he has shown over time is that he cannot really adapt, he doesn't have a plan B.

If you get a team like the one that went up under Coppell playing the way that we were, it would win promotion from the Championship every time. The team that went up under McDermott would not.

If by some absolute miracle he takes us up again I'll happily declare my love for the man and say I'm sorry that I ever doubted him. I just cannot see it happening.

I'll put an objective in far fewer words.

1 Championship title, 1 Playoff final, 3 FA Cup Qtr Finals.

I don't think Reading, or any other club, will ever emulate what the 106ers managed to achieve. I think that was a one off. Much like the Arsenal 'unbeatables'.

If you constantly judge football against what Steve Coppell achieved for Reading FC, well lets just say you're in for a lifetime of disappointment. It was a beautiful thing that happened and something I'll take to the grave.

In normal circumstances, this league is about setting up correctly, the right mentality, grit, fight and determination to sneak over that finishing line. I think BMcD is the man, who given time, can get that fight back into the squad; he's done it for a Reading squad on more than one occasion.

You're suggestion of people 'bordering on insanity' for being optimistic - take your head out of the clouds and be proud of what we have achieved over other clubs in the last 20yrs. There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about Reading Football Club.

Yeah sorry I did go on a bit there, I can't help it sometimes.

You've misunderstood me a bit tho, I'm only comparing the Coppell title season to the McDermott one because they are the only occasions we've been promoted to the top flight in our history. By no means am I expecting us to ever get 106 points ever again, I'm just saying a team playing like that would have a great chance of promotion every time. A team that plays like McDs title winning team would not.

I can't disagree that now that he is here he deserves some time, and he showed in the past he can get the best of limited players but that provides no guarantee he can do it again.

Also, he may be best off with these types players because if he can't develop his style of football and bring something new then we will always be restricted in how good we can be, no matter how much better the players were. He could have a more talented squad than we have now but if it was set up the wrong way it would under perform then you'd get people like Top Flight saying 'the players aren't good enough.' That isn't always the reason or the only reason, and was less the case this season.

People seem to think that because of what he achieved before with players that were on paper not good enough, it means he can do it again. Well he's just had 6 months with players that supposedly aren't good enough, if he is so good at getting the best out of players then why has he not made an impact?

In my view the players are better than we've had the last couple of seasons and better than his title winning squad. Why can't he still achieve and bring the best out of better players? Ok it's not his squad, we will if he is as good as some believe him to be next season.

[RoyallyFcuked]

Hopefully we will be back to high tempo direct football, rather than bollocks tippy tappy square passing everything via Norwood

I'd like to see a combination of good football on the floor, but at the same time not sacrificing the chance of a quick break to push the ball into the midfield at all costs. We need patience in possession in some games, but a pragmatic approach is best. That's the kind of football that, done right, can get you into the Prem.

We're a long way from that, though.

For now I'd like to see a team built around some talented youngsters and shrewd signings, but most of all players with the desire to do well. I think McDermott is a manager that can do that, and I think he deserves some time to try.

EDIT: I also think we will do OK next year. Just a gut feeling that we'll surprise people, not really based on much else.

I agree, I want to see decent football whether we get promoted or not. I just question whether McD has the ability to get a team playing this kind of football. I said before people see McDs return as a reason to still go to games, while I feel no motivation or excitement at the thought of going to watch these players play under him. That could change depending on how our squad looks in the summer.

The way we played in 2012 was enough once, I seriously doubt it will be again. We are 4 years on now and things are different. Can Brian adapt and involve once he gets a squad that is something like what he wants, that is the question.

This is it really.

Also the strong finishes, winning streaks and momentum RF talks about all happened over time and after a period of struggling a bit. So to suggest there is no evidence for him being able to turn things around when we're struggling is wrong really. Certainly at this level anyway. I've put somewhere on here (I can't be arsed to dig it out) a post about where we were in December/January of McD's 3 championship seasons and where we finished up. It shows in Black and White that after a not so great 1st half of a season he is capable of turning things into something very good indeed. Was he out of his depth in the PL. Possibly but let's be honest, so was his Chairman and most of the players.

Also if people are going to make the Coppell comparison then you also have to compare the circumstances behind it. Coppell's team was built over a period of time, brick by brick I believe was the phrase, but without having to sell his best players. So each season there was a gradual improvement and investment in the playing side was made by a Chairman who was prepared to accept the losses associated with it at the time.

For McDermott the situation was completely different. The club were on a slight downward trajectory and parachute payments were ending. He had to build sides each individual season after having his key player sold very late in the transfer window. Despite scratching around for a while trying to find that winning formula he managed to do it each season. Also it's why I don't buy this one dimensional tactical tag aimed at him. Each season we played completely differently to account for the difference makers we had in the team. Gylffi, Long and Roberts. Those 3 sides all played completely different tactical formations and styles because of the differing personnel and circumstances at the time. The difference in the Premier League was that we didn't have any difference makers in the same mould for that level, other than Le Fondre perhaps, which worked for a short burst before subsiding again.

When he took over this time around it was in similar circumstances really. The evidence of the first 15 games or so would suggest he had a difference maker in Blackman. However he was already looking for the exit door. So after that I think he was looking to create something that would play to Vydra's strengths. Unfortunately that didn't work so after a period of time. he gave up on that and tried out a diamond formation which also didn't work for him. Again 2 completely separate tactical moves from someone who supposedly can "only play one way" .

I think it's a valid criticism to say that he does persevere with something not working for longer than most would but I think he inherited that trait from Coppell actually who was prone to the same thing. Also as with a lot of things this weakness is also his strength. his perseverance with Long for example in the face of a lot of stick proved successful. I think it's also right to point out that it's debateable whether the Championship season would have happened without AZ injecting the cash to buy Roberts and entice the sulking Kebe off his sick bed with shiny new contract.

Of course none of that remotely guarantees that he will be able to pull of the same trick in more difficult circumstances this time around and even the most fervent McD supporters (Top Flight aside probably) can't be anything but underwhelmed by what's happened since he joined. However I'd suggest that this was a particularly trying situation to come into halfway through the season with a mainly transitional squad of players clearly lacking in the "togetherness" that is essential to succeed in the Championship.

He'll be judged on what he does from here on in and that's as it should be. I think his past record with us in this division would suggest he's at least got a shot at making it work. I think he deserves a bit more respect and time than some are giving him.

Some good points, can't argue with much of that. I will see how our squad looks in September then assess where I think we should be.

Also for anyone who thinks I'm a huge pessimist or being too negative, can I just point out that after last summers transfer window I said I was pleased that we had a squad that looked capable of promotion. Then during that great spell we had I said that we would go up : I certainly wasn't alone then either.

I guess different things inspire confidence and belief in different people.

[Snowball]

People seem to think that because of what he achieved before with players that were on paper not good enough, it means he can do it again. Well he's just had 6 months with players that supposedly aren't good enough, if he is so good at getting the best out of players then why has he not made an impact?

The difference is 5-6-7 loanees (Sa sulking) plus 2-3-4 players who knew they were gone at the end of the season, Norwood not getting a contract extension) and Williams probably wanting away, Blackman wanting away, an ego-issue in the squad, very possibly a divided dressing room.

I very much doubt that Jesus Christ could have made that lot play.

In my view the players are better than we've had the last couple of seasons and better than his title winning squad. Why can't he still achieve and bring the best out of better players? Ok it's not his squad, we will if he is as good as some believe him to be next season.

Had Vydra got the expected 20 goals this season we'd have made the top six, maybe automatic. It's mostly down to failing to score goals.

Score a goal when you're 1-0 down, maybe you go on to win. Fail to score and maybe you lose 2-0

We threw away a fair few points this year. Birmingham away, two points dropped when we played Wednesday off the park at Hillsboro, blew a great chance of a win at Boro (after beating them at home)... the error v QPR

It's a big confidence thing and I would suggest that most of our players as individuals could do OK at decent clubs (and probably will)...

I'm not merely playing "what-if". What I'm saying is, you make a save or block a shot, then see a chance for us go begging, maybe it starts to hit confidence. Had Sa not got sent off v Derby (just one example) we might have won instead of losing 0-1, and maybe the confidence would have skyrocketed.

I agree with those who think this is a squad of talented individuals, but we started with a knock-back or two had a series of goal-keeping errors, then just as we had a run going, Sa got suckered blew it -- add in the debacle of the Fulham game and then the idiocy of SC talking to Fulham.

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

[Lower West]

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

[ILoveMoonPig]

Whichever side of the fence you sit, I don't think Brian is going anywhere for a while.

Currently, there are no expectations on next season. Nobody expects (though certainly hoping for more than) anything other than a lower-table season, which means even if we go down, Brian has only marginally underachieved.

As we'll have no money to spend, nobody can blame anyone else for another poor season. We're a small club with a small budget, that's how we work.

To look at it in another sense, we have no major assets that would destroy the team to lose. No big star player. Very careful act of Brian's, as now there's not likely to be a target for richer clubs that would unbalance and cause us to have to rebuild in his absence.

We'll get the youngsters in and give them a few seasons to gel together before really mounting a serious challenge in a few seasons.

This is, oddly enough, in my opinion, the best placed off season we've ever had. Let's enjoy that.

[Longhorn1970]

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

+1

[taipairoyal]

No idea why. That's all.

Maybe because we will be leaving the EU?

[Top Flight]

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

+1

+1

[Top Flight]

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

Damn right. And remember the two games that we lost in our 106 season against Plymouth Argyle at home and Luton Town away. Yes we lost both of those games, but by george, we gave it a right good go in both of those two defeats.

We lost the Plymouth game on the opening day, yet we still all came walking out the ground feeling incredibly optimistic about the season ahead.

[RoyallyFcuked]

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

+1

Damn right. And remember the two games that we lost in our 106 season against Plymouth Argyle at home and Luton Town away. Yes we lost both of those games, but by george, we gave it a right good go in both of those two defeats.

We lost the Plymouth game on the opening day, yet we still all came walking out the ground feeling incredibly optimistic about the season ahead.

So you've just agreed that there is plenty of capability in the squad despite you saying earlier that the players are shit. This doesn't say much about McD motivational skills does it? We haven't given it a real go in half the games since he's been here this season. Ok, we can argue that our season has been over in the league for some time, although certainly not since Brian returned.

One other thing to pick up on that one or two said earlier, the fact Brian has tried a couple of different formations since he's been back doesn't mean that he isn't one dimensional or that he doesn't 'only play one way'.

One of us could go in there tommorow and change a couple of formations about, it doesn't mean we changed the style of football, the tactics or how the team is going to play.

The difference is 5-6-7 loanees (Sa sulking) plus 2-3-4 players who knew they were gone at the end of the season, Norwood not getting a contract extension) and Williams probably wanting away, Blackman wanting away, an ego-issue in the squad, very possibly a divided dressing room.

I very much doubt that Jesus Christ could have made that lot play.

Had Vydra got the expected 20 goals this season we'd have made the top six, maybe automatic. It's mostly down to failing to score goals.

Score a goal when you're 1-0 down, maybe you go on to win. Fail to score and maybe you lose 2-0

We threw away a fair few points this year. Birmingham away, two points dropped when we played Wednesday off the park at Hillsboro, blew a great chance of a win at Boro (after beating them at home)... the error v QPR

It's a big confidence thing and I would suggest that most of our players as individuals could do OK at decent clubs (and probably will)...

I'm not merely playing "what-if". What I'm saying is, you make a save or block a shot, then see a chance for us go begging, maybe it starts to hit confidence. Had Sa not got sent off v Derby (just one example) we might have won instead of losing 0-1, and maybe the confidence would have skyrocketed.

I agree with those who think this is a squad of talented individuals, but we started with a knock-back or two had a series of goal-keeping errors, then just as we had a run going, Sa got suckered blew it -- add in the debacle of the Fulham game and then the idiocy of SC talking to Fulham.

We can't have been that bad if we could beat the champions and draw with them, beat the club that finished second, draw and lose 1-0 to 3rd-place Brighton. draw twice with 6th place Wednesday (and we should have won up there). And even if we lost both games v Hull, it was 1-2 both times, so clearly there was plenty of capability there

Agree with nearly everything Mr Snow, we could have been even higher near the start had we had a bit more luck and few less mistakes. We don't score enough goals, although that has been more the case since Brian returned, not saying that is completely down to him either.

Clarke did made some decent acquisitions in the summer, and even a lot of the ones that haven't worked out looked great on paper. Who could have predicted Vydra would have been as poor as he has been?

Yes, as always in football a big part of it is certainly down to confidence and I doubt it has been the same in the dressing room since all the stuff happened with Clarke which resulted in his departure. The season just turned into a massive anti climax.

I can't argue that a lot of managers may not have not done much better than Brian has so far due to the circumstances he entered the club in, despite having some talented individuals.

Also, the 0-1 defeat at Derby was followed by 4 straight wins in the league, including against Burnley and Middlesbrough. So less blame should be placed on Orlando Sa.

[Top Flight]

Did you go to either the Rotherham or Preston away games? I singled then out as we looked distinctly average at those 2 games. Champions may not win every game. But they give it a go. We didn't. In fact we didn't even turn up.

+1

Damn right. And remember the two games that we lost in our 106 season against Plymouth Argyle at home and Luton Town away. Yes we lost both of those games, but by george, we gave it a right good go in both of those two defeats.

We lost the Plymouth game on the opening day, yet we still all came walking out the ground feeling incredibly optimistic about the season ahead.

So you've just agreed that there is plenty of capability in the squad despite you saying earlier that the players are shit. This doesn't say much about McD motivational skills does it? We haven't given it a real go in half the games since he's been here this season. Ok, we can argue that our season has been over in the league for some time, although certainly not since Brian returned.

One other thing to pick up on that one or two said earlier, the fact Brian has tried a couple of different formations since he's been back doesn't mean that he isn't one dimensional or that he doesn't 'only play one way'.

One of us could go in there tommorow and change a couple of formations about, it doesn't mean we changed the style of football, the tactics or how the team is going to play.

Mr Royally Fcuked Up, listen and understand. You are being a simpleton at the moment.

This is the situation. Yes, we had a group of players who were technically quite good. They weren't brilliant. They weren't as good as the 106 side. No where near it. Not even close. But, they were decent players.

However, they were mentally weak, they lacked resolve, they had motivational problems, some of them lacked fitness (Ola John), some of them lacked confidence (Matej Vydra), some of them were lightweight (Lucas Piazon), some of them were not needed (Alex Fernandez) and most of them didn't care. This situation has come about because of very poor recruitment by the owners and Steve Clarke combined.

Maybe it was the case that Steve Clarke threw his toys out of the pram and moaned and said we can't go up unless we buy some players. Perhaps the owners said, well we can't be spending 10 to 20 million on players so you will just have to go out and get some quality in on loan. This was knee-jerk, last minute recruiting by Clarke and Reading FC and resulted in the shambles of a squad that we had. They didn't recruit the right people and they didn't join us for the right reasons. This is very important when you are recruiting. Coppell hired players who were hungry, had something to prove, who wanted to get on in life, who wanted to achieve something, who didn't think that they were too good for RFC or too big to be playing at the Madejski Stadium. Clarke on the other hand recruited very badly and got it very wrong.

You cannot possibly blame McDermott for these deep routed motivational problems that were caused by extremely poor, knee jerk, last minute recruiting in the summer by Steve Clark and the owners. They set up the mess. McDermott will fix it. He is a much better manager than Clarke.

The last time the club recruited in a knee jerk fashion was when they backed Tommy Burns with a whole bunch of last minute signings. That was a complete disaster as well.

It's easy to analyse all this in hindsight. At the time, I was excited about the Clarke signings and had high hopes. I really thought it would work out well. But, this has been a good learning experience for us as fans and a valuable one for the owners. Madejski and Howe should have warned about this as they have experienced it before. But now having experienced this twice, hopefully we will all learn, especially the owners that the McDermott, Coppell, Pardew way, is the Reading way and is the best way.

[Vision]

+1

Damn right. And remember the two games that we lost in our 106 season against Plymouth Argyle at home and Luton Town away. Yes we lost both of those games, but by george, we gave it a right good go in both of those two defeats.

We lost the Plymouth game on the opening day, yet we still all came walking out the ground feeling incredibly optimistic about the season ahead.

So you've just agreed that there is plenty of capability in the squad despite you saying earlier that the players are shit. This doesn't say much about McD motivational skills does it? We haven't given it a real go in half the games since he's been here this season. Ok, we can argue that our season has been over in the league for some time, although certainly not since Brian returned.

One other thing to pick up on that one or two said earlier, the fact Brian has tried a couple of different formations since he's been back doesn't mean that he isn't one dimensional or that he doesn't 'only play one way'.

One of us could go in there tommorow and change a couple of formations about, it doesn't mean we changed the style of football, the tactics or how the team is going to play.

Mr Royally Fcuked Up, listen and understand. You are being a simpleton at the moment.

This is the situation. Yes, we had a group of players who were technically quite good. They weren't brilliant. They weren't as good as the 106 side. No where near it. Not even close. But, they were decent players.

However, they were mentally weak, they lacked resolve, they had motivational problems, some of them lacked fitness (Ola John), some of them lacked confidence (Matej Vydra), some of them were lightweight (Lucas Piazon), some of them were not needed (Alex Fernandez) and most of them didn't care. This situation has come about because of very poor recruitment by the owners and Steve Clarke combined.

Maybe it was the case that Steve Clarke through his toys out of the pram and moaned and said we can't go up unless we buy some players and perhaps the owners said, well we can't be spending 10 to 20 million on players so you will just have to go out and get some quality in on loan. This was knee-jerk, last minute recruiting by Clarke and Reading FC and resulted in the shambles of a squad that we had. They didn't recruit the right people and they didn't join us for the right reasons. This is very important when you are recruiting. Coppell hired players who were hungry, had something to prove, who wanted to get on in life, who wanted to achieve something, who didn't think that they were too good for RFC or too big to be playing at the Madejski Stadium. Clarke on the other hand recruited very badly and got it very wrong.

You cannot possibly blame McDermott for these deep routed motivational problems that were caused by extremely poor, knee jerk, last minute recruiting in the summer by Steve Clark and the owners. They set up the mess. McDermott will fix it. He is a much better manager than Clarke.

The last time the club recruited in a knee jerk fashion was when they backed Tommy Burns with a whole bunch of last minute signings. That was a complete disaster as well.

It's easy to analyse all this in hindsight. At the time, I was excited about the Clarke signings and had high hopes. I really thought it would work out well. But, this has been a good learning experience for us as fans and a valuable one for the owners. Madejski and Howe should have warned about this as they have experienced it before. But now having experienced this twice, hopefully we will all learn, especially the owners that the McDermott, Coppell, Pardew way, is the Reading way and is the best way.

Nothing RF has written, whether I agree with it or not, warrants you acting like such a condescending prick in your response.

[Top Flight]

I apologise Vision you are right. He annoyed me a bit because he has been telling posters to stop riding on McDermott's dick and telling others to get McDermott's dick out of their mouths. So, I got a bit condescending. I apologise. It was wrong.

[No Fixed Abode]

McDermott has undoubtedly proved he can be a successful manager in this division.

Like any manager or player though, it's often a case of being the right man, right place, right time in order to be successful. That means that regardless of his previous success McDermott needs to prove that he's the right man for us next season.

The main reason I was happy with his appointment was that I wanted someone with a bit more loyalty to the club to bring some stability and long term planning back to RFC. Because of that I'm certainly in favour of him getting time to prove he is that right man, and more time than another manager because of his ties to the club.

Pay anyone enough money or someone who is desperate for a job and they'll show you loyalty. It was a good job Reading came back in for BM as he was really on the managerial scrap heap after getting the chop from Reading then having a terrible spell at Leeds.

[floyd__streete]

^ I think I remember reading that BMc was well thought of by Leeds fans

Still, I am sure you know best.

[royalp-we]

BMcD is well thought of at Leeds. I'm sure he also very much enjoyed his stress-free job with the gunners.

Although, I've heard John Terry is desperate for a job.