BFTG - Stokies

[John Madejski's Wallet]

We had the paciest team in ages out there yesterday and so rarely utilised it

[sandman]

Well put it this way, we all know the championship officiating isn't the best but I don't subscribe to the view that some people hold that the refs are biased and give us nothing. Yeah it wasn't brilliant but it's the norm at this level. Until some form of VAR comes in (which is light years away at this level) we just have to accept it.

Do we? After every game the manager of both clubs get to write a small comment about the referee. This is the same referee that Steve Clarke said shouldn't referee at this level again and that was three years ago.

What are the people we have in charge of the game doing about these guys? Who assesses them and how? Seems to me that they are former refs who aren't going to go against the old boys club.

Yes, it's a tough job but they need to improve.

Yeah but sometimes the players don't help with their blatant cheating and diving. If VAR isn't available I would like to see a fourth (if he's not separating the dugouts) or even a fifth official being allowed to give input. I would agree that the linesman at this level are f*cking useless in most cases. They have the easier job as well.

Refs dont help themselves with diving either to be fair. Why should players stay on their feet if referees don't reward honesty?

[Snowflake Royal]

He can tell the players on the pitch to track the runner. He doesn’t need to bring someone on but make clear the players on the pitch need to be doing their share of the dirty work.

What on earth makes you think he doesn't make that clear before the game let alone during.

Swift started in the Chelsea Academy. He's had some of the best coaching available to English football. You think it's Clement's fault he's a lazy waster? You think Clement shouting instructions from the sideline is going to have any effect on the ponce? Clement spent half the game outside his technical area shouting instructions.

Then it’s simple. Swift should not be playing. Clement selected him. We have a huge squad. He could have given Clement a start.

Swift is not usually that bad. We had no one else except Meyler who has been terrible. Pelle has done very little to suggest he's up to it and we don't even know if he's fit.

There need to be viable alternatives for your criticism to be valid. We didn't even have a senior defender to bring on.

It's not Clement's fault we have huge squad of injured mediocrity. It will be if he stays and nothing changes into next season.

Just because Swift was a disgrace doesn't mean the alternatives wouldn't have been worse. You can't assume they're better just because you can't see them failing. It's that muddled thinking that has put us where we are.

Oh anyone would be better than Adkins / McDermott / Clement. 7th, 17th, 19th, 3rd, 20th, 21st.

[Hound]

Ducks are one of the other species that have been shown to have homosexual tendencies

Anyway, poor attempts at trying to be offensive. typical informant behaviour. Now kindly fcuk off again.

[sandman]

[leon]

I critiqued his failures going forward. Apart from being caught upfield once in the first half he was fine defensively. He is first and foremost a defender.

Who was nowhere near his man (ince) when he scored.

I wonder what Clement's instructions were.
Last Tuesday Leeds exposed our left flank so what did Stoke do right from the off?
Swift was wandering all over the place-there is now way that he was told to stay on the left.

Interestingly somebody pointed out on the radio in the Saints game that it is easy for a team to go hell for leather when they are losing (Man Utd 2 goals down) as, logically,they have nothing to lose.
A braver side does so before going behind-we are one of those sides IMHO-we did the same v Ipswich as we did yesterday by going 4-2-4 with two wingers and 2 central strikers.

Unfortunately we don't have Sidwell and Harper so we always seem to have to go with at least 3 in midfield.
It could be that Clement will see that we don't have the defensive players to keep many sides out so will go with how we finished the game and just hope that we score more than the opposition.
That is possibly the way that we might win games-draws and defeats will see us relegated.

BTW, Dellor said that Stoke should have had a free-kick in the lead up to our equaliser so the ref wasn't all bad.

We aren't half a weak side though-this wasn't the very physical Stoke of old and yet our playerswon so few of the 50/50 challenges and spent far too much time on the deck protesting rather than getting on with the game.

Agree with most of this and as leon says it was obvious before kick off our left flank was going to be weak. As you say Swift popped up all over the place so presumably had some kind of floating role but it didn’t work. Baldock definitely committed a foul with a shove allowing us to win the ball back and counter for the equaliser. So although the ref didn’t give us much he let us off with that one.

One of our biggest failings is an ability to counter attack quickly. On the few occasions that we do we look dangerous.

Yep. We’re playing against a high pressing team so with little movement in midfield to receive the out ball we struggle to break quickly and get penned in.

[Zip]

What on earth makes you think he doesn't make that clear before the game let alone during.

Swift started in the Chelsea Academy. He's had some of the best coaching available to English football. You think it's Clement's fault he's a lazy waster? You think Clement shouting instructions from the sideline is going to have any effect on the ponce? Clement spent half the game outside his technical area shouting instructions.

Then it’s simple. Swift should not be playing. Clement selected him. We have a huge squad. He could have given Clement a start.

Swift is not usually that bad. We had no one else except Meyler who has been terrible. Pelle has done very little to suggest he's up to it and we don't even know if he's fit.

There need to be viable alternatives for your criticism to be valid. We didn't even have a senior defender to bring on.

It's not Clement's fault we have huge squad of injured mediocrity. It will be if he stays and nothing changes into next season.

Just because Swift was a disgrace doesn't mean the alternatives wouldn't have been worse. You can't assume they're better just because you can't see them failing. It's that muddled thinking that has put us where we are.

Oh anyone would be better than Adkins / McDermott / Clement. 7th, 17th, 19th, 3rd, 20th, 21st.

Clement is fit. Difficult to see how he could be any worse than Swift was as he became invisible in the second half.

[Royal_jimmy]

I was quite surprised Clement started Loader and McNulty. Thought it'd be lightweight vs Stoke's physical team but they did ok. McNulty desperately needed that goal, I still question his attributes to be adequate at this level though.

I'd love to see us try Loader and Meite/Bod up front with Baldock and McNulty coming on from the bench. Serviced by Rinomhota and Bacuna. Think both of those 2 work really well.

Swift needs benching. He's been poor for weeks now and probably needs a rest.

[tidus_mi2]

I suppose a positive I can take is that we aren't losing as much any more and we haven't lost at home for 2 months now. If we can turn draws into wins we'll start climbing the league, easier said than done I suppose.

[Maneki Neko]

baby steps, in the right direction.
and at last a bit of grit and heart

[Stranded]

The most important factor that you all missing out on is that peace reigns over the Stranded household following this draw, given the way Stoke born Mrs S celebrated their 2nd, things could have got messy.

[NewCorkSeth]

I'm a little late to the party but I love giving my unsolicited opinion.

I thought we did very well. Stoke were superior in most positions but approached the game like a preseason friendly. We showed a lot of tenacity and desire which is rare but seems to be becoming less rare.

Jaakkola - 7 - He's doing really well. His instinct for positioning that I praised in the last game was strong again this game. His kicking is still poor.
Yiadom - 7 - Suffered again from our high WB tactics but coped much better. He attacks so well. Classy player.
Ilori - 5 - Thought he was poor. Not many of his passes came off for him. Played Afobe onside for their equaliser.
Blackett - 5 - Poor as well. I was surprised how poorly our CBs coped considering they are both adequate at this level.
Gunter - 6 - I think he did well in attack but suffered from a lack of support from this in front of him. Played high but was slow to run back.
Rinomhota - 7 - Legend. Chuck him a 4 year contract.
Bacuna - 5 - Thought he was shite.. bad at tackling and poor passing.
Swift - 10 - MOTM - Incredible. He is a god amongst men. Didn't put a foot wrong.
McCleary - 5 - Poor. 1 good cross in the first half. Was probably demoralised by constantly being fouled and nothing called for him.
McNulty - 7 - Nice goal. Happy for him. Still 4th choice.
Loader - 6 - Gets an extra point because I like him xoxo.

Meite, Barrow and Baldock all get a 7. They changed the game. Baldock put in a real shift and showed what we have been missing on the left. Barrow scored and hopefully will get some confidence back. Meite was close to being our best player. Great instinct.

[Dave the rave]

The usual escape goating ^

Decent enough game from him today...but if you are ‘that way inclined’ probably not.

Can't believe this went unnoticed so......amended for you.

[URZZZZ]

I'm a little late to the party but I love giving my unsolicited opinion.

I thought we did very well. Stoke were superior in most positions but approached the game like a preseason friendly. We showed a lot of tenacity and desire which is rare but seems to be becoming less rare.

Jaakkola - 7 - He's doing really well. His instinct for positioning that I praised in the last game was strong again this game. His kicking is still poor.
Yiadom - 7 - Suffered again from our high WB tactics but coped much better. He attacks so well. Classy player.
Ilori - 5 - Thought he was poor. Not many of his passes came off for him. Played Afobe onside for their equaliser.
Blackett - 5 - Poor as well. I was surprised how poorly our CBs coped considering they are both adequate at this level.
Gunter - 6 - I think he did well in attack but suffered from a lack of support from this in front of him. Played high but was slow to run back.
Rinomhota - 7 - Legend. Chuck him a 4 year contract.
Bacuna - 5 - Thought he was shite.. bad at tackling and poor passing.
Swift - 10 - MOTM - Incredible. He is a god amongst men. Didn't put a foot wrong.
McCleary - 5 - Poor. 1 good cross in the first half. Was probably demoralised by constantly being fouled and nothing called for him.
McNulty - 7 - Nice goal. Happy for him. Still 4th choice.
Loader - 6 - Gets an extra point because I like him xoxo.

Meite, Barrow and Baldock all get a 7. They changed the game. Baldock put in a real shift and showed what we have been missing on the left. Barrow scored and hopefully will get some confidence back. Meite was close to being our best player. Great instinct.

Not having a dig or anything but it's interesting how you rated Blackett and Ilori the same when everyone else put Blackett quite considerably higher than Ilori. That pass from Ilori summed him up as a player unfortunately, taking out a few games at the start of the season and Leeds he's been really poor again this season. Must admit, I was quite concerned when I saw the CB partnership, neither exactly strike you with confidence

[NewCorkSeth]

I'm a little late to the party but I love giving my unsolicited opinion.

I thought we did very well. Stoke were superior in most positions but approached the game like a preseason friendly. We showed a lot of tenacity and desire which is rare but seems to be becoming less rare.

Jaakkola - 7 - He's doing really well. His instinct for positioning that I praised in the last game was strong again this game. His kicking is still poor.
Yiadom - 7 - Suffered again from our high WB tactics but coped much better. He attacks so well. Classy player.
Ilori - 5 - Thought he was poor. Not many of his passes came off for him. Played Afobe onside for their equaliser.
Blackett - 5 - Poor as well. I was surprised how poorly our CBs coped considering they are both adequate at this level.
Gunter - 6 - I think he did well in attack but suffered from a lack of support from this in front of him. Played high but was slow to run back.
Rinomhota - 7 - Legend. Chuck him a 4 year contract.
Bacuna - 5 - Thought he was shite.. bad at tackling and poor passing.
Swift - 10 - MOTM - Incredible. He is a god amongst men. Didn't put a foot wrong.
McCleary - 5 - Poor. 1 good cross in the first half. Was probably demoralised by constantly being fouled and nothing called for him.
McNulty - 7 - Nice goal. Happy for him. Still 4th choice.
Loader - 6 - Gets an extra point because I like him xoxo.

Meite, Barrow and Baldock all get a 7. They changed the game. Baldock put in a real shift and showed what we have been missing on the left. Barrow scored and hopefully will get some confidence back. Meite was close to being our best player. Great instinct.

Not having a dig or anything but it's interesting how you rated Blackett and Ilori the same when everyone else put Blackett quite considerably higher than Ilori. That pass from Ilori summed him up as a player unfortunately, taking out a few games at the start of the season and Leeds he's been really poor again this season. Must admit, I was quite concerned when I saw the CB partnership, neither exactly strike you with confidence

Thought Blackett was worse save a few obvious errors from Ilori. At least Ilori won some aerials and tackles. Blackett did less and less successfully than Ilori. And I like Blackett by the way. This isn't a case of escapegoating.

[Hound]

I'm a little late to the party but I love giving my unsolicited opinion.

I thought we did very well. Stoke were superior in most positions but approached the game like a preseason friendly. We showed a lot of tenacity and desire which is rare but seems to be becoming less rare.

Jaakkola - 7 - He's doing really well. His instinct for positioning that I praised in the last game was strong again this game. His kicking is still poor.
Yiadom - 7 - Suffered again from our high WB tactics but coped much better. He attacks so well. Classy player.
Ilori - 5 - Thought he was poor. Not many of his passes came off for him. Played Afobe onside for their equaliser.
Blackett - 5 - Poor as well. I was surprised how poorly our CBs coped considering they are both adequate at this level.
Gunter - 6 - I think he did well in attack but suffered from a lack of support from this in front of him. Played high but was slow to run back.
Rinomhota - 7 - Legend. Chuck him a 4 year contract.
Bacuna - 5 - Thought he was shite.. bad at tackling and poor passing.
Swift - 10 - MOTM - Incredible. He is a god amongst men. Didn't put a foot wrong.
McCleary - 5 - Poor. 1 good cross in the first half. Was probably demoralised by constantly being fouled and nothing called for him.
McNulty - 7 - Nice goal. Happy for him. Still 4th choice.
Loader - 6 - Gets an extra point because I like him xoxo.

Meite, Barrow and Baldock all get a 7. They changed the game. Baldock put in a real shift and showed what we have been missing on the left. Barrow scored and hopefully will get some confidence back. Meite was close to being our best player. Great instinct.

Not having a dig or anything but it's interesting how you rated Blackett and Ilori the same when everyone else put Blackett quite considerably higher than Ilori. That pass from Ilori summed him up as a player unfortunately, taking out a few games at the start of the season and Leeds he's been really poor again this season. Must admit, I was quite concerned when I saw the CB partnership, neither exactly strike you with confidence

Would say the opposite with Ilori. Except Brum and Stoke he has been pretty good this season. Better than Moore imo

[Snowflake Royal]

Hi Seth.

I enjoy how you're so in love with Swift that when he's atrocious you have to give him a joke mark instead of being honest and admitting he was poor.

[Lower West]

I'm a little late to the party but I love giving my unsolicited opinion.

I thought we did very well. Stoke were superior in most positions but approached the game like a preseason friendly. We showed a lot of tenacity and desire which is rare but seems to be becoming less rare.

Jaakkola - 7 - He's doing really well. His instinct for positioning that I praised in the last game was strong again this game. His kicking is still poor.
Yiadom - 7 - Suffered again from our high WB tactics but coped much better. He attacks so well. Classy player.
Ilori - 5 - Thought he was poor. Not many of his passes came off for him. Played Afobe onside for their equaliser.
Blackett - 5 - Poor as well. I was surprised how poorly our CBs coped considering they are both adequate at this level.
Gunter - 6 - I think he did well in attack but suffered from a lack of support from this in front of him. Played high but was slow to run back.
Rinomhota - 7 - Legend. Chuck him a 4 year contract.
Bacuna - 5 - Thought he was shite.. bad at tackling and poor passing.
Swift - 10 - MOTM - Incredible. He is a god amongst men. Didn't put a foot wrong.
McCleary - 5 - Poor. 1 good cross in the first half. Was probably demoralised by constantly being fouled and nothing called for him.
McNulty - 7 - Nice goal. Happy for him. Still 4th choice.
Loader - 6 - Gets an extra point because I like him xoxo.

Meite, Barrow and Baldock all get a 7. They changed the game. Baldock put in a real shift and showed what we have been missing on the left. Barrow scored and hopefully will get some confidence back. Meite was close to being our best player. Great instinct.

Not having a dig or anything but it's interesting how you rated Blackett and Ilori the same when everyone else put Blackett quite considerably higher than Ilori. That pass from Ilori summed him up as a player unfortunately, taking out a few games at the start of the season and Leeds he's been really poor again this season. Must admit, I was quite concerned when I saw the CB partnership, neither exactly strike you with confidence

Thought Blackett was worse save a few obvious errors from Ilori. At least Ilori won some aerials and tackles. Blackett did less and less successfully than Ilori. And I like Blackett by the way. This isn't a case of escapegoating.

What alternatives were there? As a new partnership was better than I expected prematch. We are still lacking that key DM. Until then the central pairing who ever they be will remain exposed.

[NewCorkSeth]

Hi Seth.

I enjoy how you're so in love with Swift that when he's atrocious you have to give him a joke mark instead of being honest and admitting he was poor.

Hey bro. I refuse to mark him seriously while he is being played out of position. You may note I was openly critical of him in my last BFTG. I am not avoiding criticising him. He was poor. The worst player we had on the pitch? No. But did he contribute to our defenders issues? A bit yes. Did he do a poor job linking midfield to attack? Yes certainly.

He doesn't fit the tactic unless he is part of the central 2. (I saw it as a Christmas tree formation - I might be mistaken) Playing him in the same position as Bacuna or Rinomhota will guarantee poor performances. It's too deep.

How are you btw? Any news? Gossip?

[NewCorkSeth]

Not having a dig or anything but it's interesting how you rated Blackett and Ilori the same when everyone else put Blackett quite considerably higher than Ilori. That pass from Ilori summed him up as a player unfortunately, taking out a few games at the start of the season and Leeds he's been really poor again this season. Must admit, I was quite concerned when I saw the CB partnership, neither exactly strike you with confidence

Thought Blackett was worse save a few obvious errors from Ilori. At least Ilori won some aerials and tackles. Blackett did less and less successfully than Ilori. And I like Blackett by the way. This isn't a case of escapegoating.

What alternatives were there? As a new partnership was better than I expected prematch. We are still lacking that key DM. Until then the central pairing who ever they be will remain exposed.

Oh there was none! And honestly I thought Blackett would be better as a CB than a LB.
I just thought, on the whole, both were poor throughout the game but Ilori was the architect of his poor performance. Blackett didn't seem to be able to cope with the opposition.