Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

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leon
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by leon » 31 Mar 2019 14:05

Snowflake Royal People who run on the pitch aren't making rational decisions.

It's like trying to use life sentences to prevent crimes of passion. It doesn't factor in most offenders thinking when it happens.

They're already facing bans, fines and potentially prison. Why would they care about a club being deducted points.

The problem gets solved by tackling society, not with threats and punishments for someone not actually committing the offence.


Clubs that can’t control fans should be deducted points. Disincentive effect of deductions is a bonus.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 14:12

leon
Snowflake Royal People who run on the pitch aren't making rational decisions.

It's like trying to use life sentences to prevent crimes of passion. It doesn't factor in most offenders thinking when it happens.

They're already facing bans, fines and potentially prison. Why would they care about a club being deducted points.

The problem gets solved by tackling society, not with threats and punishments for someone not actually committing the offence.


Clubs that can’t control fans should be deducted points. Disincentive effect of deductions is a bonus.


Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify and prevent individuals? In terms of pitch invasions - back to the days of unsafe mesh fences? Triple the steward numbers for every game? And how the oxf*rd do you prevent someone shouting something? Gag all fans?

By all means penalise a lack of response or education effort. Don't penalise for the one off actions of a few individuals.

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leon
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by leon » 31 Mar 2019 14:17

Snowflake Royal
leon
Snowflake Royal People who run on the pitch aren't making rational decisions.

It's like trying to use life sentences to prevent crimes of passion. It doesn't factor in most offenders thinking when it happens.

They're already facing bans, fines and potentially prison. Why would they care about a club being deducted points.

The problem gets solved by tackling society, not with threats and punishments for someone not actually committing the offence.


Clubs that can’t control fans should be deducted points. Disincentive effect of deductions is a bonus.


Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify and prevent individuals? In terms of pitch invasions - back to the days of unsafe mesh fences? Triple the steward numbers for every game? And how the oxf*rd do you prevent someone shouting something? Gag all fans?

By all means penalise a lack of response or education effort. Don't penalise for the one off actions of a few individuals.


Yes. More stewards, bans and education.

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe.

Really not that controversial.

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Snowflake Royal
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 14:36

A ban doesn't prevent the offence you're deducting points for though. Nor does it stop a different individual.

Education is great, but again, football clubs can't be held to account for society and some people are beyond education helping.

Stewards are additional cost disproportionate to the issue.

This all comes back to my central point that you sanction clubs for their behaviour. Not incidents caused by others. Sanction for their inaction to a problem, not to the problem itself.

Sanction clubs for not banning individuals guilty of an offence. Sanction clubs not issuing suspensions to crowd sections where issues are widespread. Sanction clubs for not running out reach programs. Don't sanction them where they're doing that and It hasn't stopped all problems.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by stealthpapes » 31 Mar 2019 16:24

Snowflake Royal
leon
Snowflake Royal People who run on the pitch aren't making rational decisions.

It's like trying to use life sentences to prevent crimes of passion. It doesn't factor in most offenders thinking when it happens.

They're already facing bans, fines and potentially prison. Why would they care about a club being deducted points.

The problem gets solved by tackling society, not with threats and punishments for someone not actually committing the offence.


Clubs that can’t control fans should be deducted points. Disincentive effect of deductions is a bonus.


Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify ... individuals?.


Is this one a joke?

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe. If they fail in this, then they should be punished.

More stewards. Effective and appropriate bans.

Not that controversial.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 17:07

stealthpapes
Snowflake Royal
leon
Clubs that can’t control fans should be deducted points. Disincentive effect of deductions is a bonus.


Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify ... individuals?.


Is this one a joke?

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe. If they fail in this, then they should be punished.

More stewards. Effective and appropriate bans.

Not that controversial.

Yeah, you've snipped a rather crucial bit there that completely changes the meaning of what I was saying.

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leon
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by leon » 31 Mar 2019 18:54

Snowflake Royal
stealthpapes
Snowflake Royal
Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify ... individuals?.


Is this one a joke?

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe. If they fail in this, then they should be punished.

More stewards. Effective and appropriate bans.

Not that controversial.

Yeah, you've snipped a rather crucial bit there that completely changes the meaning of what I was saying.


Not really. This was entirely my point. They are responsible. If they fail they get punished.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Snowflake Royal » 31 Mar 2019 19:30

I think we're talking at crossed purposes and if you think that snip doesn't alter the meaning of what I said, you haven't understood it in the first place.

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leon
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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by leon » 02 Apr 2019 12:08

Snowflake Royal I think we're talking at crossed purposes and if you think that snip doesn't alter the meaning of what I said, you haven't understood it in the first place.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 03 Apr 2019 10:42

So Moises Kean is subjected all game to monkey noises from Cagliari fans - he responds by scoring twice, and celebrating in front of those Cagliari fans. And then he gets support from his team-mates, right?

Well, no. He's had one player support him, Blaise Matuidi, who is also black. And Juventus captain Leo Bonucci says that Kean must share the blame for the abuse for inflaming the Cagliari fans. Bonnuci is a disgrace. He shouldn't wear a Juventus shirt again.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Hoop Blah » 03 Apr 2019 11:50

Sanguine So Moises Kean is subjected all game to monkey noises from Cagliari fans - he responds by scoring twice, and celebrating in front of those Cagliari fans. And then he gets support from his team-mates, right?

Well, no. He's had one player support him, Blaise Matuidi, who is also black. And Juventus captain Leo Bonucci says that Kean must share the blame for the abuse for inflaming the Cagliari fans. Bonnuci is a disgrace. He shouldn't wear a Juventus shirt again.



Rather bizarre from Bonnuci, but I think the manager echoed those views as well according to the little bit i heard on SSN this morning.

They didn't seem to suggest he'd been abused throughout the game though so it made it sound like the abuse only started after he celebrated in front of them. That sounded odd to me, and even if that was the timeline, it still doesn't justify the abuse or the comments from his inside his own team.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Old Man Andrews » 03 Apr 2019 11:53

Their point was it wasn't wise for Kean to inflame the situation. Sanguine once again bringing the dramatics to the board........

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Winston Biscuit » 03 Apr 2019 12:06

His surname is pronounced 'ken' btw. Just so you read it right in your heads.


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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 03 Apr 2019 12:08

Old Man Andrews Their point was it wasn't wise for Kean to inflame the situation. Sanguine once again bringing the dramatics to the board........


Bonucci specifically blamed Kean for the fact that he received racist abuse, however you want to dress it up.

And standing with ones arms outstretched isn't 'inflaming the situation'. You don't become racist because a black man is stood in front of you.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Old Man Andrews » 03 Apr 2019 12:11

“Kean knows that when he scores a goal, he has to focus on celebrating with his teammates. He knows he could’ve done something differently too,”

But yeah lets say Bonucci shouldn't play for Juventus again :roll:

You know exactly what he means but you are choosing to ignore it because it suits your dramatic nature. He is essentially saying ignore them and don't encourge more abuse. In your world he is making excuses for racism which isn't slightly true.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Sanguine » 03 Apr 2019 12:15

Old Man Andrews “Kean knows that when he scores a goal, he has to focus on celebrating with his teammates. He knows he could’ve done something differently too,”

But yeah lets say Bonucci shouldn't play for Juventus again :roll:

You know exactly what he means but you are choosing to ignore it because it suits your dramatic nature. He is essentially saying ignore them and don't encourge more abuse. In your world he is making excuses for racism which isn't slightly true.


He was speaking in response to a question about the racism Kean had received.

“There were racist jeers after the goal, Blaise heard it and was angered. I think the blame is 50-50, because Moise shouldn’t have done that and the Curva should not have reacted that way.

“We are professionals, we have to set the example and not provoke anyone.”


That's the bit you didn't quote. The blame for the racist jeers is apparently 50/50. The fans only became racist because Kean stood in front of them, apparently.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by stealthpapes » 03 Apr 2019 16:41

Snowflake Royal
stealthpapes
Snowflake Royal
Repeat offenders / large crowds fair enough


But how do clubs identify ... individuals?.


Is this one a joke?

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe. If they fail in this, then they should be punished.

More stewards. Effective and appropriate bans.

Not that controversial.

Yeah, you've snipped a rather crucial bit there that completely changes the meaning of what I was saying.


But how do clubs identify and prevent individuals?


I don't think it's at all unfair to focus on the first point.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by The Enfield Royal71 » 03 Apr 2019 18:22

Bonucci should be sacked for the disgusting behaviour. We need to clamp down on this now, it is 2019 ffs.

You could clearly hear the booing and chants, they even did it last year to Matuidi aswell.

Not to mention this "Cagliari captain Luca Ceppitelli went over to supporters behind the goal in an attempt to stop the monkey chants but it continued." before he scored.

Juventus, bonucci and their disgusting manager should be banned and kicked out for 1 year. Italy is a disgusting racist country, I saw it myself with my eyes on my honeymoon when a black guy was trying to get some food in the airport and the dickhead servers were being rude and not serving him. I gave them a pizza my mind, said stop being oxf*rd racist dickheads and got him a sandwiche and walked off flicking the bird and calling them italian melts and said they should be on the menu, and called the other one mario the plumber.

I like standing up for the man and sticking it to racist twats.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Snowflake Royal » 03 Apr 2019 19:44

stealthpapes
Snowflake Royal
stealthpapes
Is this one a joke?

Clubs have a responsibility to keep fans and players safe. If they fail in this, then they should be punished.

More stewards. Effective and appropriate bans.

Not that controversial.

Yeah, you've snipped a rather crucial bit there that completely changes the meaning of what I was saying.


But how do clubs identify and prevent individuals?


I don't think it's at all unfair to focus on the first point.

It's not two separate points. How do you identify that someone is going to chant racist abuse and prevent them from doing so.

Obviously you can identify them once they've done it. But I'm arguing against clubs being punished for things they can't foresee and prevent. I'm all in favour of penalizing clubs who fail to act on incidents or prevent repeat offences by the same people.

But that's obvious until you snip the sentence in half and change the meaning.

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Re: Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

by Whore Jackie » 05 Apr 2019 12:58

Wayne Hennessey cleared by the FA of racist gesture allegation. :shock:

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