Transfer deadline day rumours in's and out's

[Zip]

Is this 100% true or one of those things that gets stretched to be the truth?

I would find it very hard to see how that could be enforced - say we agree a deal with Carroll this week but the EFL won't allow us to sign him - possibly a legal argument for constraint of trade of the player as the EFL are essentially saying he must remain unemployed.

BTW what is the definition of a senior player here?

There have been various interpretations of what a senior player is defined as but let’s put it this way we have comfortably more than 16 players who have played a good number of League games.
I guess time will tell over the EFL interpretation especially if Puscas is injured

Reading the EFL site, the 16 man rule doesn't apply to us - as ours is a P&S embargo - those rules apply to the likes of Derby.

Under the terms of our embargo, we are allowed to have a maximum of 24 established players. If I am reading it correctly, link to follow, an established player is a player who has:

Played in a minimum of 5 games at Championship level or higher
Must have been 21 on the 30th June 2021 i.e. Tetek, Bristow & Azeez do not count towards that tally regardless of apps.

If we get to 24 players, then it is a one in/one out situation - this is allegedly where we are.

Would be great to get a breakdown of who are established players are - I think under those rules, we only have 22 but that was just from a quick view of the squad on Transfermarkt (squad list down on club website). Rules do state that the EFL have the final say on each deal, so it may well be that they have taken the view that we have enough given the u21 year old players we've been using and won't sanction any more deals - this is where the conversation with them may be to allow one more free agent in.

Link: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/em ... goes-faqs/

The problem with one in one out is how do we get one out now that the window is closed? I get that we could potentially bring in a free agent if we get one out but I don’t see how anyone can now come in and take a player off us.

[Stranded]

There have been various interpretations of what a senior player is defined as but let’s put it this way we have comfortably more than 16 players who have played a good number of League games.
I guess time will tell over the EFL interpretation especially if Puscas is injured

Reading the EFL site, the 16 man rule doesn't apply to us - as ours is a P&S embargo - those rules apply to the likes of Derby.

Under the terms of our embargo, we are allowed to have a maximum of 24 established players. If I am reading it correctly, link to follow, an established player is a player who has:

Played in a minimum of 5 games at Championship level or higher
Must have been 21 on the 30th June 2021 i.e. Tetek, Bristow & Azeez do not count towards that tally regardless of apps.

If we get to 24 players, then it is a one in/one out situation - this is allegedly where we are.

Would be great to get a breakdown of who are established players are - I think under those rules, we only have 22 but that was just from a quick view of the squad on Transfermarkt (squad list down on club website). Rules do state that the EFL have the final say on each deal, so it may well be that they have taken the view that we have enough given the u21 year old players we've been using and won't sanction any more deals - this is where the conversation with them may be to allow one more free agent in.

Link: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/em ... goes-faqs/

The problem with one in one out is how do we get one out now that the window is closed? I get that we could potentially bring in a free agent if we get one out but I don’t see how anyone can now come in and take a player off us.

Yes, my point is - I don't think we are at 24 so we don't need to get anyone out, we just to persuade the EFL to let us have one in - that was the same before the window closed. I imagine our stiker injuries will form the bulk of the base of the conversations with them.

[Stranded]

Another positive is that we didn't lose anyone on deadline day. I assume we can now look at extending the contracts of those players who's deals are up next summer but keeping within the 8.5k limit? Not sure we'll get many takers

I don't believe we have to drop players down to 8.5k if they already play for us. Each contract extension would need to be ratified by the EFL however.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

If we get andy Carroll I'm never going to another game and we may aswell say hello to league one.

Awful player

*sigh.

I thought with a bit of time away from HNA you might develop some sense. What was i thinking!

Who the oxf*rd are you? Never ever seen you on here before

Ah is this your other personality? I've been on here for years although I'm not a "volume poster" like yourself. I prefer quality over quantity.

[Snowflake Royal]

We've somehow turned into retirement home reject fc

Couldn't be less underwhelming to see scott dann and drinkwater if I tried. Reminds me of keown and Ferdinand

I agree…it’s not good scouting, it smacks of desperation to me.

Hoilett, Rahman & Halilovic I can understand…needed bodies in those positions.

But we’ve focused on strengthening our strongest position on the field…where’s the sense in that?!

We now have 7 central mids…Drinkwater, TDB, Laurent, Rino, Tetek, Swift & Ejaria.

So we’ve reverted back to the issue we had before we trimmed the squad last season.

And we’ve strengthened a slow central deFence, with an even older, slower defender.

Plus we haven’t resolved the biggest issue in the lack of goals.

Long season ahead

2 of those don't play in CM and 1 probably was only going to be getting a handful of minutes off the bench anyway and might be better suited to a loan this season to get some meaningful game time. I'd rather have bodies in than rely in Laurent and Rino playing nearly every minute for 2x seasons in a row.

Curious which one you think other than Ejaria. Who may be played on the wing, but certainly isn't a winger.

TDB?

Looked ok on the left, then gash on the right, but essentially another direct running central midfielder imo.

[Zip]

Reading the EFL site, the 16 man rule doesn't apply to us - as ours is a P&S embargo - those rules apply to the likes of Derby.

Under the terms of our embargo, we are allowed to have a maximum of 24 established players. If I am reading it correctly, link to follow, an established player is a player who has:

Played in a minimum of 5 games at Championship level or higher
Must have been 21 on the 30th June 2021 i.e. Tetek, Bristow & Azeez do not count towards that tally regardless of apps.

If we get to 24 players, then it is a one in/one out situation - this is allegedly where we are.

Would be great to get a breakdown of who are established players are - I think under those rules, we only have 22 but that was just from a quick view of the squad on Transfermarkt (squad list down on club website). Rules do state that the EFL have the final say on each deal, so it may well be that they have taken the view that we have enough given the u21 year old players we've been using and won't sanction any more deals - this is where the conversation with them may be to allow one more free agent in.

Link: https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/em ... goes-faqs/

The problem with one in one out is how do we get one out now that the window is closed? I get that we could potentially bring in a free agent if we get one out but I don’t see how anyone can now come in and take a player off us.

Yes, my point is - I don't think we are at 24 so we don't need to get anyone out, we just to persuade the EFL to let us have one in - that was the same before the window closed. I imagine our stiker injuries will form the bulk of the base of the conversations with them.

I guess we will find out in the coming days if they consider us to be at 24 or not (assuming it is 24 and not 16).

[Simmops]

*sigh.

I thought with a bit of time away from HNA you might develop some sense. What was i thinking!

Who the oxf*rd are you? Never ever seen you on here before

Ah is this your other personality? I've been on here for years although I'm not a "volume poster" like yourself. I prefer quality over quantity.

What?

[Hendo]

I agree…it’s not good scouting, it smacks of desperation to me.

Hoilett, Rahman & Halilovic I can understand…needed bodies in those positions.

But we’ve focused on strengthening our strongest position on the field…where’s the sense in that?!

We now have 7 central mids…Drinkwater, TDB, Laurent, Rino, Tetek, Swift & Ejaria.

So we’ve reverted back to the issue we had before we trimmed the squad last season.

And we’ve strengthened a slow central deFence, with an even older, slower defender.

Plus we haven’t resolved the biggest issue in the lack of goals.

Long season ahead

2 of those don't play in CM and 1 probably was only going to be getting a handful of minutes off the bench anyway and might be better suited to a loan this season to get some meaningful game time. I'd rather have bodies in than rely in Laurent and Rino playing nearly every minute for 2x seasons in a row.

Curious which one you think other than Ejaria. Who may be played on the wing, but certainly isn't a winger.

TDB?

Looked ok on the left, then gash on the right, but essentially another direct running central midfielder imo.

Don't think I mentioned anyone as playing on the wing?

Drinkwater, TDB, Laurent & Rino - core CMs
Tetek - back-up/would like to see him go on loan for playing time
Swift & Ejaria - both play much further forward than CM and with Ejaria playing mostly out wide, although I would like to see him through the middle.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

Who the oxf*rd are you? Never ever seen you on here before

Ah is this your other personality? I've been on here for years although I'm not a "volume poster" like yourself. I prefer quality over quantity.

What?

Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.

[Simmops]

Ah is this your other personality? I've been on here for years although I'm not a "volume poster" like yourself. I prefer quality over quantity.

What?

Sorry have I lost you somewhere? I didn't think I was speaking Swahili but I can dumb things down a bit if you like?
Basically you asked who I was. I have been posting on HNA for over a decade. Last season I barely logged in tbh, but I'm fairly regular otherwise. We've had discussions before. That's how I know what an enigma you are.

I have literally no idea who you are and have never ever spoken to you before. I don't know why you're called me names either.

[Stranded]

The problem with one in one out is how do we get one out now that the window is closed? I get that we could potentially bring in a free agent if we get one out but I don’t see how anyone can now come in and take a player off us.

Yes, my point is - I don't think we are at 24 so we don't need to get anyone out, we just to persuade the EFL to let us have one in - that was the same before the window closed. I imagine our stiker injuries will form the bulk of the base of the conversations with them.

I guess we will find out in the coming days if they consider us to be at 24 or not (assuming it is 24 and not 16).

It is 24, read the link I added - we are under a P&S embargo - 16 applies to a different embargo i.e. the one Derby are under. We are fully at the behest of the EFL and their whims, which is our own fault.

The section of interest on the EFL site is: In relation to Profit & Sustainability rule breaches, under what circumstances would a Championship Club operate under an Embargo?

[Zip]

Yes, my point is - I don't think we are at 24 so we don't need to get anyone out, we just to persuade the EFL to let us have one in - that was the same before the window closed. I imagine our stiker injuries will form the bulk of the base of the conversations with them.

I guess we will find out in the coming days if they consider us to be at 24 or not (assuming it is 24 and not 16).

It is 24, read the link I added - we are under a P&S embargo - 16 applies to a different embargo i.e. the one Derby are under. We are fully at the behest of the EFL and their whims, which is our own fault.

The section of interest on the EFL site is: In relation to Profit & Sustainability rule breaches, under what circumstances would a Championship Club operate under an Embargo?

Ok I was just reading something on this last night (May have been Jonathan Low) where it inferred the figure was 16. If its 24 it does beg the question why we couldn’t sign a striker yesterday without moving a player on. Again the senior player definition would need to be clarified.

[paultheroyal]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

[NathStPaul]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

[Donny Ironside]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

And risk paying compensation? Will not happen.

This is all so very complex and annoying.

[NathStPaul]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

And risk paying compensation? Will not happen.

This is all so very complex and annoying.

Well it would be a case of Puscas for example getting an offer from abroad and the buying club not wanting to spend any money. We release Puscas by cancelling his contract and he then signs for the other club on a free. It is similar to what Willian just did with Arsenal. It is very rare a player would ever agree to it though, extremely unlikely to happen in our case.

[Stranded]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

This is the text that affects us is below:

In relation to Profit & Sustainability rule breaches, under what circumstances would a Championship Club operate under an Embargo?

If a Club fails to provide the required information in relation to Profit & Sustainability rules, then they will be subject to an Embargo.
Clubs that don’t forecast to breach the Upper Loss Threshold within their submissions – but only on the basis of future receipts – will also be subject to an Embargo.
Clubs that breach the Upper Loss Threshold will also be subject to an Embargo.
A Club is under Embargo in relation to a Profit & Sustainability rule breach, is there any circumstances under which that Club can register players?

Each individual case will be determined by the EFL, though considerations will be given in the circumstances of:

Re-engagement with currently registered players
Signing an Emergency Loan Goalkeeper
Academy players
The Club having less than 24 Established Players
Established Player (Championship Clubs) - A player aged 21 or over as at the 30 June immediately prior to the commencement of the season in which the Club is subject to the Embargo and who has been named in the starting XI on a total of at least five occasions*.

*in EFL League, EFL Cup, EFL Trophy, FA Cup or equivalent competitions for any Club in any equivalent League to the Championship or higher.

How is the number of players these Clubs can acquire managed?

If the Club has 24 or more Established Players they can only sign new players on a one in one out basis, though this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual Club and will be determined by the League.
Where a Club has less than 24 Established Players they can register players up to the 24 limit, though again this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual Club and will be determined by the League.

The last paragraph is key - if we are at 24 - then it is one in one out. If we are under 24 established players (we seem to have 22 or 23) then we can bring in 1 more (i.e. the striker) but "this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual club and will be determined by the League".

So in short, it looks like we can bring 1 more in, and probably worked to that belief but the EFL have allegedly said that no, you now have to get rid of one to bring one in. Which is their right.

[Stranded]

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

And risk paying compensation? Will not happen.

This is all so very complex and annoying.

Well it would be a case of Puscas for example getting an offer from abroad and the buying club not wanting to spend any money. We release Puscas by cancelling his contract and he then signs for the other club on a free. It is similar to what Willian just did with Arsenal. It is very rare a player would ever agree to it though, extremely unlikely to happen in our case.

That only works if the destination league still has an open window, if closed there even as a free agent the player couldn't sign as his registration was cancelled outside of the window i.e. he couldn't be registered until the window reopens.

[Donny Ironside]

To clarify - can we still get free agents in? Are we under any type of player quota still?

There are some quality strikers still out there.

We have to get one out before one can come in apparently. With the window closed that is impossible now. Only way we can do it is if we mutually terminate a contact I would have thought.

This is the text that affects us is below:

In relation to Profit & Sustainability rule breaches, under what circumstances would a Championship Club operate under an Embargo?

If a Club fails to provide the required information in relation to Profit & Sustainability rules, then they will be subject to an Embargo.
Clubs that don’t forecast to breach the Upper Loss Threshold within their submissions – but only on the basis of future receipts – will also be subject to an Embargo.
Clubs that breach the Upper Loss Threshold will also be subject to an Embargo.
A Club is under Embargo in relation to a Profit & Sustainability rule breach, is there any circumstances under which that Club can register players?

Each individual case will be determined by the EFL, though considerations will be given in the circumstances of:

Re-engagement with currently registered players
Signing an Emergency Loan Goalkeeper
Academy players
The Club having less than 24 Established Players
Established Player (Championship Clubs) - A player aged 21 or over as at the 30 June immediately prior to the commencement of the season in which the Club is subject to the Embargo and who has been named in the starting XI on a total of at least five occasions*.

*in EFL League, EFL Cup, EFL Trophy, FA Cup or equivalent competitions for any Club in any equivalent League to the Championship or higher.

How is the number of players these Clubs can acquire managed?

If the Club has 24 or more Established Players they can only sign new players on a one in one out basis, though this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual Club and will be determined by the League.
Where a Club has less than 24 Established Players they can register players up to the 24 limit, though again this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual Club and will be determined by the League.

The last paragraph is key - if we are at 24 - then it is one in one out. If we are under 24 established players (we seem to have 22 or 23) then we can bring in 1 more (i.e. the striker) but "this will be dependent upon the circumstances of the individual club and will be determined by the League".

So in short, it looks like we can bring 1 more in, and probably worked to that belief but the EFL have allegedly said that no, you now have to get rid of one to bring one in. Which is their right.

I was about to say about emergency loan players but reading that it seems only Goalkeepers are allowed for that criteria.

I find it extremely ridiculous that a player could play 5 EFL Trophy nothing games and be "established".

[Snowflake Royal]

2 of those don't play in CM and 1 probably was only going to be getting a handful of minutes off the bench anyway and might be better suited to a loan this season to get some meaningful game time. I'd rather have bodies in than rely in Laurent and Rino playing nearly every minute for 2x seasons in a row.

Curious which one you think other than Ejaria. Who may be played on the wing, but certainly isn't a winger.

TDB?

Looked ok on the left, then gash on the right, but essentially another direct running central midfielder imo.

Don't think I mentioned anyone as playing on the wing?

Drinkwater, TDB, Laurent & Rino - core CMs
Tetek - back-up/would like to see him go on loan for playing time
Swift & Ejaria - both play much further forward than CM and with Ejaria playing mostly out wide, although I would like to see him through the middle.

Assumed that's what you meant, rather than just an attacking central midfielder.