Pauno out

[Royal Rother]

An unlucky 2-2 draw against a better side.

What was unlucky about it?

30% possession, playing at home, (possibly as low as 20% after we went 2 goals up) 9 shots to Derby's 16.

That ain't bad luck.

[Sanguine]

Maybe 'free-scoring' isn't quite right, but in what is a relatively low scoring league this season (or looks it to me) we have 29 goals where only seven teams have scored 30 or more. Middlesbrough, in 7th, also have 29 goals. We had a ropey month or so in attack, but broadly speaking scoring goals isn't our issue.

[Millsy]

An unlucky 2-2 draw against a better side.

What was unlucky about it?

30% possession, playing at home, (possibly as low as 20% after we went 2 goals up) 9 shots to Derby's 16.

That ain't bad luck.

Rubbish possession, yes we were awful I won't defend that even if possession is a somewhat useless indicator.

Unlucky only in that normally solid Southwood made an error.

Sanguine - yes exactly for an allegedly woeful team even with our star strikers injured we're sure punching above our weight when it comes to scoring so that's one area noone can ever knock us for. Scoring ain't our problem.

[Snowflake Royal]

An unlucky 2-2 draw against a better side.

What was unlucky about it?

30% possession, playing at home, (possibly as low as 20% after we went 2 goals up) 9 shots to Derby's 16.

That ain't bad luck.

Rubbish possession, yes we were awful I won't defend that even if possession is a somewhat useless indicator.

Unlucky only in that normally solid Southwood made an error.

Sanguine - yes exactly for an allegedly woeful team even with our star strikers injured we're sure punching above our weight when it comes to scoring so that's one area noone can ever knock us for. Scoring ain't our problem.

Shame we've got one of the worst defences in the league to go with our ok attack.

Makes trying to defend a lead pretty stupid.

[Zip]

:| people did't love Stam, they tolerated him whilst we were winning.

2-0 being free scoring.

Indeed. We have scored 27 in 22 games. Far from free-scoring, In Stam’s second season we averaged just slightly over a goal per game. This season is better but not by much and we rarely create many chances in a game. Our goal conversion rate is pretty good considering how little we create.

[Franchise FC]

What was unlucky about it?

30% possession, playing at home, (possibly as low as 20% after we went 2 goals up) 9 shots to Derby's 16.

That ain't bad luck.

Rubbish possession, yes we were awful I won't defend that even if possession is a somewhat useless indicator.

Unlucky only in that normally solid Southwood made an error.

Sanguine - yes exactly for an allegedly woeful team even with our star strikers injured we're sure punching above our weight when it comes to scoring so that's one area noone can ever knock us for. Scoring ain't our problem.

Shame we've got one of the worst defences in the league to go with our ok attack.

Makes trying to defend a lead pretty stupid.

I may be missing something obvious but the fact we couldn’t string two passes together when we had the ball would necessarily demand that, as soon as we lose it, we have to defend. The fact that we gave it away so often in our own half meant that defending was our only real option.
If any of the players had been able to get those two passes together we could’ve got further up the field.

If I’m looking to apportion blame it’s directly at those players that couldn’t keep the ball, often in situations where it was relatively easy to do so.

[Royal Rother]

Rubbish possession, yes we were awful I won't defend that even if possession is a somewhat useless indicator.

Unlucky only in that normally solid Southwood made an error.

Sanguine - yes exactly for an allegedly woeful team even with our star strikers injured we're sure punching above our weight when it comes to scoring so that's one area noone can ever knock us for. Scoring ain't our problem.

Shame we've got one of the worst defences in the league to go with our ok attack.

Makes trying to defend a lead pretty stupid.

I may be missing something obvious but the fact we couldn’t string two passes together when we had the ball would necessarily demand that, as soon as we lose it, we have to defend. The fact that we gave it away so often in our own half meant that defending was our only real option.
If any of the players had been able to get those two passes together we could’ve got further up the field.

If I’m looking to apportion blame it’s directly at those players that couldn’t keep the ball, often in situations where it was relatively easy to do so.

Absolutely. The real culprits on a regular basis are the bloody midfielders who seem incapable of keeping possession when we have been under pressure but have an opportunity to break.

When we’ve been under the cosh it seems like the 1st priority is retain possession at all costs rather than play the ball forward or maybe hope to draw a foul and get a breather - they seem incapable of looking up whilst carrying the ball so end up dithering, get closed down, lose the ball and back comes another attack, just a few seconds after the defence dealt with the last one.

Of course the fact that we invite more and more pressure by retreating means it is not easy to find another Reading player when there is an opportunity to break because they are all in or around their own penalty area.

I don’t think Paunovic has any idea of how to deal with these situations in a positive manner so the players just panic.

[Hound]

Rubbish possession, yes we were awful I won't defend that even if possession is a somewhat useless indicator.

Unlucky only in that normally solid Southwood made an error.

Sanguine - yes exactly for an allegedly woeful team even with our star strikers injured we're sure punching above our weight when it comes to scoring so that's one area noone can ever knock us for. Scoring ain't our problem.

Shame we've got one of the worst defences in the league to go with our ok attack.

Makes trying to defend a lead pretty stupid.

I may be missing something obvious but the fact we couldn’t string two passes together when we had the ball would necessarily demand that, as soon as we lose it, we have to defend. The fact that we gave it away so often in our own half meant that defending was our only real option.
If any of the players had been able to get those two passes together we could’ve got further up the field.

If I’m looking to apportion blame it’s directly at those players that couldn’t keep the ball, often in situations where it was relatively easy to do so.

Don’t totally disagree and one of my main issues with TDB is he loses the ball so often. Halilovic and Swift are better at it but had poor games

Thing is you can change the system to get out. You have one of the best aerial players in the league winning every battle up front - so if we’re struggling to keep possession in defensive midfield - let’s try maybe bring Puscas on for swift and hitting Carroll a bit quicker - have Hoilett and Azeez further forward to pick up scraps (as we did for the first goal)

Worst case at least if we lose possession it’s further forward and can push away from our own box

[URZZZZ]

Shame we've got one of the worst defences in the league to go with our ok attack.

Makes trying to defend a lead pretty stupid.

I may be missing something obvious but the fact we couldn’t string two passes together when we had the ball would necessarily demand that, as soon as we lose it, we have to defend. The fact that we gave it away so often in our own half meant that defending was our only real option.
If any of the players had been able to get those two passes together we could’ve got further up the field.

If I’m looking to apportion blame it’s directly at those players that couldn’t keep the ball, often in situations where it was relatively easy to do so.

Don’t totally disagree and one of my main issues with TDB is he loses the ball so often. Halilovic and Swift are better at it but had poor games

Thing is you can change the system to get out. You have one of the best aerial players in the league winning every battle up front - so if we’re struggling to keep possession in defensive midfield - let’s try maybe bring Puscas on for swift and hitting Carroll a bit quicker - have Hoilett and Azeez further forward to pick up scraps (as we did for the first goal)

Worst case at least if we lose possession it’s further forward and can push away from our own box

Does TDB lose the ball a lot? I’m sure it was you that posted after one game (IIRC Sheffield) about his number of touches in the game being unusually low and that anonymity seems to be the case for a number of games he starts in. Could be wrong mind but I don’t recall giving the ball away as being one of his major faults

[YorkshireRoyal99]

I actually thought the biggest culprits of giving the ball away against Derby were both Swift and Laurent, especially in the 2nd half. Both had far too many touches and ended up giving the ball away cheaply on too many occasions where we just couldn't retain the ball. I think TDB was being asked to do a role that just doesn't suit his skillset, he's definitely someone who needs to be in the forward line but we'd have had no better options in midfield for the game.

I do think it matters on the personnel that was available as well. If either on Rino/Tetek were fit I'd have expected them to have either started or come on which would have made a big difference to the middle of the park and may have meant that TDB could have gone into a more advanced position or out on the left where he could potentially keep hold of the ball.

The frustration for me was, for all the technical players we had on the field against Derby (Swift, TDB, Laurent, Halilovic, Hoilett) we were very naïve when we had the ball and in giving it away. Nobody sought after trying to draw fouls from the opposition often enough to relieve pressure. Whether they aren't being asked to by Pauno or whether they just simply didn't do it, I don't know, but it was very naïve, especially going into the final 10 minutes of a game.

[Snowflake Royal]

I may be missing something obvious but the fact we couldn’t string two passes together when we had the ball would necessarily demand that, as soon as we lose it, we have to defend. The fact that we gave it away so often in our own half meant that defending was our only real option.
If any of the players had been able to get those two passes together we could’ve got further up the field.

If I’m looking to apportion blame it’s directly at those players that couldn’t keep the ball, often in situations where it was relatively easy to do so.

Don’t totally disagree and one of my main issues with TDB is he loses the ball so often. Halilovic and Swift are better at it but had poor games

Thing is you can change the system to get out. You have one of the best aerial players in the league winning every battle up front - so if we’re struggling to keep possession in defensive midfield - let’s try maybe bring Puscas on for swift and hitting Carroll a bit quicker - have Hoilett and Azeez further forward to pick up scraps (as we did for the first goal)

Worst case at least if we lose possession it’s further forward and can push away from our own box

Does TDB lose the ball a lot? I’m sure it was you that posted after one game (IIRC Sheffield) about his number of touches in the game being unusually low and that anonymity seems to be the case for a number of games he starts in. Could be wrong mind but I don’t recall giving the ball away as being one of his major faults

It's a great one from Hound there.

TDB had an 88% pass success off 34 touches, best pass success in the side. Most touches for us was 47.

2 unsuccessful touches (equal Laurent and Azeez, half Swift's), 1 dispossessed (equal Rahman and Araruna).


He's also got the best pass accuracy in the side across the season.

And doesn’t stand out especially on unsuccessful touches or being dispossesed

[Hound]

Don’t totally disagree and one of my main issues with TDB is he loses the ball so often. Halilovic and Swift are better at it but had poor games

Thing is you can change the system to get out. You have one of the best aerial players in the league winning every battle up front - so if we’re struggling to keep possession in defensive midfield - let’s try maybe bring Puscas on for swift and hitting Carroll a bit quicker - have Hoilett and Azeez further forward to pick up scraps (as we did for the first goal)

Worst case at least if we lose possession it’s further forward and can push away from our own box

Does TDB lose the ball a lot? I’m sure it was you that posted after one game (IIRC Sheffield) about his number of touches in the game being unusually low and that anonymity seems to be the case for a number of games he starts in. Could be wrong mind but I don’t recall giving the ball away as being one of his major faults

It's a great one from Hound there.

TDB had an 88% pass success off 34 touches, best pass success in the side. Most touches for us was 47.

2 unsuccessful touches (equal Laurent and Azeez, half Swift's), 1 dispossessed (equal Rahman and Araruna).


He's also got the best pass accuracy in the side across the season.

And doesn’t stand out especially on unsuccessful touches or being dispossesed

well guess you can spin the stats how you like. He is 3rd for being dispossesed and 6th for unsuccessful touch (taking Joao out as such a small amount of mins). And this without getting massively involved in games (15th in tackles, 11th interceptions, 18th fouls, 15th on average passes) - so yeah I think its a reasonable statement

so yes pretty anonymous, but when involved (generally the more defensive role he has I imagine) he loses the ball higher than average in the side. Difficult to lose the ball that often if you only touch it 9 times on the wing as he did in the Sheff utd game

granted Swift loses the ball more than I thought - but thats balanced out by an extremely high key pass ratio

[Snowflake Royal]

[Hound]

?

[Millsy]

?

That's Ian responding intellectually, innit?

[Snowflake Royal]

Sorry, I thought it was a parody with the "you can spin stats how you like" and excusing Swift for worse losing of the ball because of his high 'pass ratio'. When passing isn’t really related to failing to receive the ball or being dispossessed and his pass completion is worse than TDB's.

[Hound]

Sorry, I thought it was a parody with the "you can spin stats how you like" and excusing Swift for worse losing of the ball because of his high 'pass ratio'. When passing isn’t really related to failing to receive the ball or being dispossessed and his pass completion is worse than TDB's.

happy to accept I overestimated Swifts ability to not lose possession. It did suprise me how high it was. And it was key pass rather than pass ratio - you could argue that suggests he is working more in key attacking areas. But admittedly that'd prob be a stretch to prove anything there

But that was a minor aside to my main post anyway

[Snowflake Royal]

Sorry, I thought it was a parody with the "you can spin stats how you like" and excusing Swift for worse losing of the ball because of his high 'pass ratio'. When passing isn’t really related to failing to receive the ball or being dispossessed and his pass completion is worse than TDB's.

happy to accept I overestimated Swifts ability to not lose possession. And it was key pass rather than pass ratio - you could argue that suggests he is working more in key attacking areas. But admittedly that'd prob be a stretch to prove anything there

But that was a minor aside to my main post anyway

I love you Houndy, and I feel bad. I'm sorry.

I kept quiet on pass whatever to start with because I thought it could be a couple of things some in Swift's favour and wasn't sure which

I've got no skin in comparing Swift to TDB, Swift is far superior and they're for different roles imo.

I think TDB is actually quite good. But according to whoscored he's played in 8 different positions for us. Which is absolute madness. He's been very poor in some of his positions. And I think that the most defensive midfielder is not one of his strengths.


Incidentally, Moore has a worse tackles per game than TDB.

[Hound]

I think TDB is actually quite good. But according to whoscored he's played in 8 different positions for us. Which is absolute madness. He's been very poor in some of his positions. And I think that the most defensive midfielder is not one of his strengths.

Incidentally, Moore has a worse tackles per game than TDB.

I do like him as well despite the criticism, and fully agree his performances have been severely hampered by becoming our jack of all trades - just shove him where we have a gap. He isn't a defensive mid or someone who I'd like to have shielding the back 4 imo. His best games have been when he's been driving forward and getting shots in. And often forgotten he is very young - not even 20 I don't think, and in his first full season. So i'm far from saying he is rubbish or anything - just don't feel he has the game (yet) to control a midfield.

Moore - well agree with you he just needs to go really. Best for everyone concerned.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think TDB is actually quite good. But according to whoscored he's played in 8 different positions for us. Which is absolute madness. He's been very poor in some of his positions. And I think that the most defensive midfielder is not one of his strengths.

Incidentally, Moore has a worse tackles per game than TDB.

I do like him as well despite the criticism, and fully agree his performances have been severely hampered by becoming our jack of all trades - just shove him where we have a gap. He isn't a defensive mid or someone who I'd like to have shielding the back 4 imo. His best games have been when he's been driving forward and getting shots in. And often forgotten he is very young - not even 20 I don't think, and in his first full season. So i'm far from saying he is rubbish or anything - just don't feel he has the game (yet) to control a midfield.

Moore - well agree with you he just needs to go really. Best for everyone concerned.

He's not 20!? Wow.

I see our midfield thus:

DM - screening defence - Drinkwater, at a push Rino, maybe Tetek, possibly Swift

CM - Water carrier, lots of defensive work and runs forward where possible - Laurent, TDB, Rinomhota, maybe Tetek

AM - sitting behind the striker - Swift, Ejaria, Hailiovic, maybe TDB