MATCHWATCH : Peterborough United (h)

[Snowflake Royal]

People might grumble about the football on display, but if it gets us winning regularly most will turn up regardless of quality.

And if it doesn't get us winning, we could be playing scintillating stuff and it wouldnt encourage many back.

[West F]

Which I can live with if we build on it. If we have a mix of good performances and piss poor ones, then the objective over the summer is pretty obvious; bring in the right players who can help us bring in the consistency. We just have to be patient and accept it's the start of a long rebuild.

Football fans generally don't have the patience these days. All instant gratification. Fantasy football recruitment. Whereas in real life it's about real people. Who bring with them all their personal baggage. No guarantee any signing will settle into the team long term.

I'm happy to be patient and allow time for a rebuild, just so long as that rebuild isn't based on foundations of 'hoofball'.

This is who he is and has said as much.

He didn’t mention the style of play as being an issue with yesterday’s performance. Choosing instead to praise Peterborough for their endeavours. If this crap continues into the new year, the crowds will dwindle. No amount of fireworks and hotdogs are going to arrest that decline. I will wait until the closing of the January window, to see if Couhig will back his man over what Noel was left with. There will come a point where rattling Dai’s skeleton at us no longer works.

[Millsy]

Saying that we lost the game in the first five minutes is worrying.

Came back to this thread to say exactly this.

You don't win or lose a game in the first 5mins ffs, you do something about it if there's a lapse. 1-0 down at home with almost 90mins to go against a shit side isn't the end of the game and anyoen who thinks it is concerns me.

Havign said that, I wonder if he meant it more in the sense that "the signs were there in the first five minutes" i.e. the players just weren't with it, and that mentality would likely continue.

[Clyde1998]

Gave it a bit of time to think about what we saw last night before posting.

1. Their opening goal was a poor one to concede. Obviously going 1-0 down within the first couple of minutes is always going to be problematic, but the static defending is concerning and Dorsett being left to handle two attackers by himself was never going to work. They were fortunate with how the ball pinged off Williams on to their attacker though.
2. I thought we responded fairly well, at least for the next half hour. Although we didn't create many clear cut chances, we had a few half chances: a couple of headers going wide; Kyerewaa's impressive spin before a wild strike. Arguably our best chance of the first half was when their keeper played the ball directly to Doyle, who's touch was like a trampoline - allowing him to recover. The first half fizzled out, but certainly wasn't anything to be booed off.
3. Our equaliser was similar to the Peterborough opener, in that it was fortunate more than impressive: Ehibhatiomhan's knockdown to Randall Williams being headed back into the box. That said, Kelvin's anticipation was good and he had the peace of mind to lift the ball over their keeper.
4. Thought it was incredibly odd for us to immediately proceed to take him off, given he would've had the confidence boost from scoring. Marriott did okay with what he was provided with; Ritchie hardly did anything.
5. The finish for their second was impressive. Can't really say too much about that. Perhaps their should've been a challenge for the ball when it was initially played long.
6. We didn't do anything much after they scored. I think the only serious chance was O'Connor's right at the end - when he headed straight at the keeper.
7. The concept of playing some balls long isn't necessarily a bad one, but aside from Kyerewaa having a run at a defender (with varying results), it seemed to be our long method of getting the ball forward consistently. Seemed the midfield was completely being bypassed for much of the game, which doesn't make sense when you've got both Wing and Savage playing. We need a mix of routes forward and a viable target man for long balls to be consistently effective. Did very occasionally cause some issues when played into the space in the channels.
8. Don't understand why Rinomhota wasn't brought on. We could've taken Randall Williams off and shifted one of Wing or Savage higher up the park; or simply played Rino as an attacking midfielder. Seems to be a total lack of plan B at the moment - which should've been something to work on in the week without a game.
9. Overall, I didn't think Peterborough were very good, but they got their goals and we didn't really threaten them. Too many flat performances last night once again. The reaction at Bradford will be interesting.

[MR. CYNICAL]

Just a tiny bit more enjoyable than catching your foreskin in your zipper, but at least it wasn`t cold.

And if you missed the Carlisle horror show, this was a pretty good imitation of it.

Yes I missed that thankfully, i decided after last night I`m done with evening games, at least if we lose on a Saturday I can get sloshed and forget it short term.

Yep, I'm thinking the same after encountering a huge stag deer, 2 road closures and a 30 mile detour, hence a horrendous 2 hour journey back to portsmouth.

[leon]

And if you missed the Carlisle horror show, this was a pretty good imitation of it.

Yes I missed that thankfully, i decided after last night I`m done with evening games, at least if we lose on a Saturday I can get sloshed and forget it short term.

Yep, I'm thinking the same after encountering a huge stag deer, 2 road closures and a 30 mile detour, hence a horrendous 2 hour journey back to portsmouth.

conversely I like evening games despite driving in from London - although thankfully I couldnt make Tuesday

[URZZZZ]

Watched the Sky "highlights" and O'Connor just ambled around the pitch looking like he didn't give a shit. I know he isn't the most mobile but really?

He’s up there with the slowest players I’ve ever seen

Which does make you question why he breaks the defensive line so often and charges forward to try to challenge.

Thought he'd been pretty positionally disciplined since returning to the team, but he was absolutely all over the shop last night, and certainly not in a good way.

Any time I think about football, the key thing I come back to is it's simply about building partnerships across the pitch and through the team.

CB with CB
CB with FB
FB with Wing
Wing with FW
FW with FW/AM
CM with CM
CM with every other position.

And our entire team seems to play the game in isolation as if they've never met, let alone trained together.

This. It’s the simple answer when people regurgitate “how did Stam’s team finish 3rd”

Because it was a well balanced squad with strong partnerships through the pitch. We’ve had better individual players since but never a better “team”

[leon]

He’s up there with the slowest players I’ve ever seen

Which does make you question why he breaks the defensive line so often and charges forward to try to challenge.

Thought he'd been pretty positionally disciplined since returning to the team, but he was absolutely all over the shop last night, and certainly not in a good way.

Any time I think about football, the key thing I come back to is it's simply about building partnerships across the pitch and through the team.

CB with CB
CB with FB
FB with Wing
Wing with FW
FW with FW/AM
CM with CM
CM with every other position.

And our entire team seems to play the game in isolation as if they've never met, let alone trained together.

This. It’s the simple answer when people regurgitate “how did Stam’s team finish 3rd”

Because it was a well balanced squad with strong partnerships through the pitch. We’ve had better individual players since but never a better “team”

See constant England failures since 1966.

[URZZZZ]

I think Rinomhota should play when fit. Energy in the middle of the park and ball carrying ability. Surprised he didn't come on yesterday.

I'm sick of Doyle. He's a powderpuff girl. Someone said he was our best player yesterday. I thought he was typically rubbish.

What we really need is someone who can cause problems at AM, but we have no one. And don’t seem to be willing to try any of the wingers there.

So sod it.

Rinomhota, Wing
.........Savage

I’d still be keen to see Kelvin at AM. Not good enough as the lone ST. Doesn’t have enough nous for it. Peterborough’s first goal all came from him not positioning himself to anticipate where the ball would end up (something R Williams pointed out to him at the time)

Marriott does struggle to get into the game but personally thinks he leads the line better and is more likely to score - it’s a problem position though

[URZZZZ]

He’s up there with the slowest players I’ve ever seen

I can take one of the CBs being slow, but I assumed given the plaudits he gained at Lincoln, he must have something else about him. But he seems really quiet, slightly suspect at positioning, not that commanding in the air and utterly atrocious at passing.

We had the farcical sight last night of Wing playing even deeper than normal, laying the ball back to Paudie to lump it forward. To no-one. TBF he wasn't the only one, lost count of the number of apologetic arm raises from players after another misdirected pass.

Really need to see some changes and a positive reaction at Bradford.

At Lincoln O'Connor played in a different system with five across the back, which makes up for his lack of pace.
although you could argue with Wing playing so far back that's what he has here.

He can generally defend his box well - something compatible with Lincoln’s style who look to sit in and contain with little emphasis on “playing out”

It’s another mismatch of player/system if we’re trying to operate with a high line as his lack of pace will expose him every time

It’s up to management to align the squad at their disposal to a system which works best. Something ours have notoriously struggled at!

[Hound]

I think Rinomhota should play when fit. Energy in the middle of the park and ball carrying ability. Surprised he didn't come on yesterday.

I'm sick of Doyle. He's a powderpuff girl. Someone said he was our best player yesterday. I thought he was typically rubbish.

What we really need is someone who can cause problems at AM, but we have no one. And don’t seem to be willing to try any of the wingers there.

So sod it.

Rinomhota, Wing
.........Savage

I’d still be keen to see Kelvin at AM. Not good enough as the lone ST. Doesn’t have enough nous for it. Peterborough’s first goal all came from him not positioning himself to anticipate where the ball would end up (something R Williams pointed out to him at the time)

Marriott does struggle to get into the game but personally thinks he leads the line better and is more likely to score - it’s a problem position though

I’d say it’s a bit harsh to say Kelvin isn’t good enough to play the role. He’s still learning it of course but we’re a much better side with him on the pitch than when he’s not. He seems to have an awful lot asked of him for a young lad playing out of position - expected to full on press constantly , win headers, hold the ball, finish his chances or else he gets laid into. He wouldn’t be here if he could do all that

Marriott can’t lead a line imo. He barely gets a touch playing that role. Never wins a header or any kind of long ball up to him. Just not the sort of player he is

For me if Marriott plays, then yes KE has to play near him. I could see KE at CAM and Marriott at CF being a reasonable option. It’s not far from the standard 4-4-2 big man/little man thing which is a bit old school but might well work ok

[URZZZZ]

I'm sick of Doyle. He's a powderpuff girl. Someone said he was our best player yesterday. I thought he was typically rubbish.

What we really need is someone who can cause problems at AM, but we have no one. And don’t seem to be willing to try any of the wingers there.

So sod it.

Rinomhota, Wing
.........Savage

I’d still be keen to see Kelvin at AM. Not good enough as the lone ST. Doesn’t have enough nous for it. Peterborough’s first goal all came from him not positioning himself to anticipate where the ball would end up (something R Williams pointed out to him at the time)

Marriott does struggle to get into the game but personally thinks he leads the line better and is more likely to score - it’s a problem position though

I’d say it’s a bit harsh to say Kelvin isn’t good enough to play the role. He’s still learning it of course but we’re a much better side with him on the pitch than when he’s not. He seems to have an awful lot asked of him for a young lad playing out of position - expected to full on press constantly , win headers, hold the ball, finish his chances or else he gets laid into. He wouldn’t be here if he could do all that

Marriott can’t lead a line imo. He barely gets a touch playing that role. Never wins a header or any kind of long ball up to him. Just not the sort of player he is

For me if Marriott plays, then yes KE has to play near him. I could see KE at CAM and Marriott at CF being a reasonable option. It’s not far from the standard 4-4-2 big man/little man thing which is a bit old school but might well work ok

I don’t disagree that a lot is asked of him. Being shunted around from a partnership up top to wide left to being a long striker etc etc can’t have helped his development

That being said, I just can’t agree that we’re a much better side with him being on the pitch. Blackpool aside (in which Danny K ran the show) we’ve continued the trend of scoring one goal a game since Marriott’s injury. We still look pretty toothless up top

17 touches on Tuesday (44% pass completion), compared to Marriott’s 9 (100% pass completion). Neither are particularly great in terms of number of touches but 44% is way off the mark

[Hound]

I’d still be keen to see Kelvin at AM. Not good enough as the lone ST. Doesn’t have enough nous for it. Peterborough’s first goal all came from him not positioning himself to anticipate where the ball would end up (something R Williams pointed out to him at the time)

Marriott does struggle to get into the game but personally thinks he leads the line better and is more likely to score - it’s a problem position though

I’d say it’s a bit harsh to say Kelvin isn’t good enough to play the role. He’s still learning it of course but we’re a much better side with him on the pitch than when he’s not. He seems to have an awful lot asked of him for a young lad playing out of position - expected to full on press constantly , win headers, hold the ball, finish his chances or else he gets laid into. He wouldn’t be here if he could do all that

Marriott can’t lead a line imo. He barely gets a touch playing that role. Never wins a header or any kind of long ball up to him. Just not the sort of player he is

For me if Marriott plays, then yes KE has to play near him. I could see KE at CAM and Marriott at CF being a reasonable option. It’s not far from the standard 4-4-2 big man/little man thing which is a bit old school but might well work ok

I don’t disagree that a lot is asked of him. Being shunted around from a partnership up top to wide left to being a long striker etc etc can’t have helped his development

That being said, I just can’t agree that we’re a much better side with him being on the pitch. Blackpool aside (in which Danny K ran the show) we’ve continued the trend of scoring one goal a game since Marriott’s injury. We still look pretty toothless up top

17 touches on Tuesday (44% pass completion), compared to Marriott’s 9 (100% pass completion). Neither are particularly great in terms of number of touches but 44% is way off the mark

Yeah but a percentage of Kelvins touches were where we want them to be - central and near the goal

Just looking at Marriotts - there’s one in the box near the touchline, one central (a ridiculous shot attempt which lost possession) and everything else is out wide and away from goal. Basically safe positions where you don’t want you’re CF

Think KE had a relatively poor game but is still getting touches in the right areas and chances. And it was a decent striker goal as a result of him winning a header from a long ball

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

[URZZZZ]

I’d say it’s a bit harsh to say Kelvin isn’t good enough to play the role. He’s still learning it of course but we’re a much better side with him on the pitch than when he’s not. He seems to have an awful lot asked of him for a young lad playing out of position - expected to full on press constantly , win headers, hold the ball, finish his chances or else he gets laid into. He wouldn’t be here if he could do all that

Marriott can’t lead a line imo. He barely gets a touch playing that role. Never wins a header or any kind of long ball up to him. Just not the sort of player he is

For me if Marriott plays, then yes KE has to play near him. I could see KE at CAM and Marriott at CF being a reasonable option. It’s not far from the standard 4-4-2 big man/little man thing which is a bit old school but might well work ok

I don’t disagree that a lot is asked of him. Being shunted around from a partnership up top to wide left to being a long striker etc etc can’t have helped his development

That being said, I just can’t agree that we’re a much better side with him being on the pitch. Blackpool aside (in which Danny K ran the show) we’ve continued the trend of scoring one goal a game since Marriott’s injury. We still look pretty toothless up top

17 touches on Tuesday (44% pass completion), compared to Marriott’s 9 (100% pass completion). Neither are particularly great in terms of number of touches but 44% is way off the mark

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

[Snowflake Royal]

I think Rinomhota should play when fit. Energy in the middle of the park and ball carrying ability. Surprised he didn't come on yesterday.

I'm sick of Doyle. He's a powderpuff girl. Someone said he was our best player yesterday. I thought he was typically rubbish.

What we really need is someone who can cause problems at AM, but we have no one. And don’t seem to be willing to try any of the wingers there.

So sod it.

Rinomhota, Wing
.........Savage

I’d still be keen to see Kelvin at AM. Not good enough as the lone ST. Doesn’t have enough nous for it. Peterborough’s first goal all came from him not positioning himself to anticipate where the ball would end up (something R Williams pointed out to him at the time)

Marriott does struggle to get into the game but personally thinks he leads the line better and is more likely to score - it’s a problem position though

Don’t think he has the athleticism and press for it.

[Snowflake Royal]

I don’t disagree that a lot is asked of him. Being shunted around from a partnership up top to wide left to being a long striker etc etc can’t have helped his development

That being said, I just can’t agree that we’re a much better side with him being on the pitch. Blackpool aside (in which Danny K ran the show) we’ve continued the trend of scoring one goal a game since Marriott’s injury. We still look pretty toothless up top

17 touches on Tuesday (44% pass completion), compared to Marriott’s 9 (100% pass completion). Neither are particularly great in terms of number of touches but 44% is way off the mark

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

Agree. As for Marriott and Kelvin in a ST-AM or ST-ST pair, it's a very low energy, low press pairing.

[Hound]

I don’t disagree that a lot is asked of him. Being shunted around from a partnership up top to wide left to being a long striker etc etc can’t have helped his development

That being said, I just can’t agree that we’re a much better side with him being on the pitch. Blackpool aside (in which Danny K ran the show) we’ve continued the trend of scoring one goal a game since Marriott’s injury. We still look pretty toothless up top

17 touches on Tuesday (44% pass completion), compared to Marriott’s 9 (100% pass completion). Neither are particularly great in terms of number of touches but 44% is way off the mark

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

I’d say it’s a mix of both. Obvs I agree having a settled back line helps, even if they were pretty useless Tuesday

Being a striker isn’t just about scoring goals nowadays either - KE is decent defensively, and does give an outlet. He isn’t brilliant at it but he’s not as bad as some make out. Marriott doesn’t offer that and therefore the ball keeps coming back and limits the options going forwards

As you say Goal scoring hasn’t changed a lot with/without Marriott and he offers so little else

I think we’re all in agreement we need someone else up top and Marriott on his own isn’t the answer and KE isn’t ready yet to do that role on his own either. I’d still far rather the latter option until January comes round though. Or change the system to accommodate both

[Hound]

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

Agree. As for Marriott and Kelvin in a ST-AM or ST-ST pair, it's a very low energy, low press pairing.

Well Doyle is hardly the second coming of Sadio Mane is he?

I don’t think they are especially low energy tbh. Kelvin presses reasonably well and Marriott probably has it in him if he isn’t doing it on his own. Wouldn’t call him esp low energy either

[Snowflake Royal]

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

Agree. As for Marriott and Kelvin in a ST-AM or ST-ST pair, it's a very low energy, low press pairing.

Well Doyle is hardly the second coming of Sadio Mane is he?

I don’t think they are especially low energy tbh. Kelvin presses reasonably well and Marriott probably has it in him if he isn’t doing it on his own. Wouldn’t call him esp low energy either

Doyle plays like me. At 70% never committing to anything.

[WestYorksRoyal]

And I’ve bored on about this long enough but I don’t think it’s a coincidence our results are dire with Marriott on the pitch (generally when KE isn’t). Not nec his fault, he just isn’t the right player for the system

And do you think the upturn in results is a consequence of replacing Marriott up front or having a more settled backline with the return of Williams + O’Connor?

Because our goals scored has stayed at a relatively flat rate through the season with/without Marriott whereas our goals conceded has improved massively in recent weeks (3 clean sheets in 6 as opposed to 1 in 12 before)

Maybe you think the two are linked somewhat but I personally see the change coming around as a result of having a better defence and not having to rely solely on the likes of Ahmed, Burns etc (I.e. a very inexperienced backline!)

I do agree with you that we’re in need of an attacker or two and that our attack is a bit too small and lightweight but I just don’t think KE solves that problem enough

Agree. As for Marriott and Kelvin in a ST-AM or ST-ST pair, it's a very low energy, low press pairing.

Maybe we should be low press and more compact. I don't think our forward line players are good at it, and it has already been pointed out that O'Connor and Williams aren't suited to a high line.

I know pressing is fashionable, but we haven't recruited the right players to do it