Switzerland v England

[Row Z Royal]

All well and good doing it in meaningless qualifiers. When has he cut it in the big games?

Fail to win the meaningless qualifiers and there are no big games.

[cmonurz]

^This.

Goalposts have shifted, LRF, you said Rooney had 'never been a productive striker', which is astonishing.

Y21 - Rooney hasn't had 'long lean periods'. He has had one recent lean period, and previously didn't score competitively for three seasons. Outside of that he has scored consistently for England.

Scoring at international level is not easy. As I said before, Owen's record for England, which has rarely come under criticism, is a goal every 2.2 games. Fernando Torres has 26 goals in 81 caps for Spain, Messi has 14 in 51 games.

[sandman]

Not sure that sentence makes much sense, how can you score consistently if you don't score competitively for 3 years and have long lean periods?

Rooney doesn't score as much as we'd like him to for England but a lot of that is because he never really seems to have a proper role. He seems to be chucked up front with no real purpose. He was never going to work with Heskey. Now he can sit deeper, without being worried about Lampard crashing into him, and the benefits are there for all to see

Rooney has a purpose up front but much like his personal life he lacks the discipline to stay where he's supposed to. He charges about all over the place, one minute he's on the edge of the opponents penalty area and the next he's defending next to the corner flag. Whilst his eagerness to defend is admirable he'd be better served to temper that eagerness and defend between the main striker and the midfield.

[LoyalRoyalFan]

^This.

Goalposts have shifted, LRF, you said Rooney had 'never been a productive striker', which is astonishing.

Y21 - Rooney hasn't had 'long lean periods'. He has had one recent lean period, and previously didn't score competitively for three seasons. Outside of that he has scored consistently for England.

Scoring at international level is not easy. As I said before, Owen's record for England, which has rarely come under criticism, is a goal every 2.2 games. Fernando Torres has 26 goals in 81 caps for Spain, Messi has 14 in 51 games.

Rooney in recent months has actually been at his worst. He has never been at the top of his game for England.

[cmonurz]

So World Cup qualification, when he got something like 9 goals in 8 games, wasn't Rooney at his best? He was exceptional for six months or so.

[comeonyouroyals]

All well and good doing it in meaningless qualifiers. When has he cut it in the big games?

When does the rest off the team cut it in big games?
Also Rooney's game isn't just about goals, he is also a creator hence why he needs to be played with a more disciplined striker who can finish, it's that or play a 451 with him as the top man and play to the same style as United.

[rhroyal]

Rooney is definitely our most talented player at club level. He is immense in qualifying. Even when not scoring, he is a useful player in an England shirt. He was not fit enough at 2006. In 2010 the entire team had a shocker and Rooney is included in that. However he's tough in the head, I expect him to bounce back at club level at least and I'm hopeful he's got a big tournament in him one day.

Remember, Messi, Kaka, Drogba and Ronaldo all had subdued world cups too. You can't deny Rooney's talent and work rate, it's just a question of whether he can produce on the big stage one day. He's still only 24; I await 2012 and 2014 with anticipation.

I'd say we could be looking in decent shape after the horror of 2010:

1) Joe Hart - finally a secure no.1 Hopefully his fumbles last night are not a sign of things to come. We don't want another young gk to be struck down by the "England no.1 syndrome" that got Robinson and Carson.

2) Gerrard. 2 good performances with Lampard injured. Time to let him play in the middle with license. I know Lampard is world class at club level, but time to put the team above individuals.

3) Wings. Can Theo Walcott become more consistent? Can be a great player if so. Adam Johnson looks at home in and England shirt. Milner solid backup.

4) Ashley Cole - still one of the world's best left backs.

5) Jagielka - Solid 2 games. Challenge to Terry and Ferdinand at last.

I fell like Phil McNulty was spot on in his BBC article. People have been talking of a new era. Capello needs to usher it in. Lampard, Terry and Ferdinand should not automatically regain their first team spots when younger players are performing. We're without Milner for Montengro. Gerrard should not move back to the left to accommodate Lampard in the middle if we're serious about moving into a new era. Johnson should start.

I feel like we can make a major impact on a tournament soon with a few ifs:

IF we can have a fully fit Rooney at his best

IF Capello is brave enough to blood new young players and give them experience

IF some of the likes of Walcott, Hart, Johnson, Rodwell, Jagielka and others can continue to develop over the next 2-4 years.

Finally, the biggest IF of all:

IFwe can finally shake off the English syndrome of freezing under the pressure and faltering on the big stage.

I'm dubious about the final one; no manager has ever done this. All I would say is that the Golden Generation is coming to an end; they have forever been shackled by pressure and underachievement. Hopefully these younger players won't be so easily fazed. More hope than reason in that argument though.

[Seal]

I still believe the burnout issue is the biggest challenge England have. As the headline in the Standard said last night..."Why can't the World Cup be in September?"

It's wasn't just about freezing on the big stage, it was about basic levels of energy on the pitch. Every single one of our players looked leggy, lethargic and lacking pace. Compare that to the German team who bombed around at a 100 miles an hour.

There are a number of disadvantages the Premier League has over other leagues, which are fundementally detrimental to the England team's chances:

- A league of 20 = too many games
- Cold winters which are tough on the body and muscles
- No winter break
- Highly competitive - in almost every game a team is fighting for something
- High tempo style of football which takes its tool on the body.

We are also unfortunate that the entire England team is picked from this league, so there is no variation in our squad. Indeed, how many foreign players who played in the Premier League last season actually had a good World Cup? I'm not sure I can think of even one.

[Wax Jacket]

one thought is, why allow them time off between the league finishing and the World Cup starting? Milner and Rooney both looked a lot fitter and leaner for pre-season, why not keep them fit right through the interim period

[Big Foot]

Indeed, how many foreign players who played in the Premier League last season actually had a good World Cup? I'm not sure I can think of even one.

Dirk Kuyt?

[Silver Fox]

Tevez?

[Ginger Ninjas]

Anelka?

[rfcjoe]

I'm sure if Lampard was at the WC, he would've done ok.

[Seal]

Tevez is a fair shout.

Kuyt hmmm well you can't tell if he's running or not anyway he's so one paced, but yeah he did get to the final.

Still it's not a compelling list for the "greatest league in the world". Sport magazine had an interesting stat on this point too:-

2010 World Cup Goalscorers:-

La Liga - 29 goals
Bundesliga - 21 goals
Serie A - 16 goals
Prem - 12 goals

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Compared with other nations who have major leagues, England are quite poor on the international level.

[bobbybottler]

Indeed, how many foreign players who played in the Premier League last season actually had a good World Cup? I'm not sure I can think of even one.

De Jong and Heitinga* did pretty well within the scope of their roles.

* I know

[Seal]

Compared with other nations who have major leagues, England are quite poor on the international level.

Despite your attempt to be a smart arse you have completely missed the point. Only 40% of players in the Premier League are English.

Therefore the stat above illustrates that Premier League players, from all nationalities failed to perform at the World Cup, suggesting a potential issue with the demands of the Premier League rather than your killer insight that "England are quite poor"

Cheers for the input though.

[Hoop Blah]

Who did have a good World Cup though?

I wouldn't say Messi or Ronaldo did. A few of the Spanish perhaps, but only really Villa and Iniesta, I'd even go so far to say Xavi wasn't really at his best. Snieder and Van Bommell both did well I guess, but I can't remember many other big name players really excelling.

[Seal]

Good world cups:-

Diego Forlan
Wesley Sneider
Thomas Mueller
David Villa
Bastian Schweinsteiger
Sami Khedira
Arjen Robben
That Nigerian Keeper
Asamoah Gyan (until he missed that penalty)
Gonzalo Higuain

[sheshnu]

Kev Boateng played well from what I saw. Premier League player too, wasn't he? A drop in the footballing ocean though, I agree.