BFTG - Blackburn

[Silver Fox]

You can say that again

[Millsy]

+ I didn't realise it was Swift who assisted for our winner.

1 goal
1 assist.

Perhaps Swift should have been my star man !

[Nameless]

What? No they just accept both bids.. If they oxf*rd around too much Oliveira gets another loan and leaves on a free at the end of next season.

If Oliveira performs well for us and wants to come here they have to accept the agreed upon amount. It doesn't matter if someone offers double the player decides which contract to accept.

If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !

On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.

Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.

Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.

But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid

Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.

[NewCorkSeth]

If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !

On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.

Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.

Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.

But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid

Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.

The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.

[Hendo]

I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?

Exactly this.

Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.

I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.

There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.

I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.

+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.

We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.

[Old Man Andrews]

I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?

Exactly this.

Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.

I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.

There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.

I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.

+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.

We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.

What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?

[Nameless]

I believe there was an interview with Martinez in which he said he hoped to be made second choice at Arsenal next season but had no idea whether they might look at bringing in a new keeper ahead of him. If that looked likely the he would have to move.
Whether he’d consider us a sensible next career step who knows but I think even the possibility depends on what Arsenal do in the summer.

[Ranty McRantface]

Definitely a game of 2 halves.

Some of you have been talking about the strange line up but I really thought Gomes was spot on. With Rino injured and no strong CMs available we we need to help the likes of Kelly and Swift with wide men who are likely to track back wide and centrally. Richards definitely fits that mould and so does Ejaria.

The 1st half was one way traffic until we scored in the 44th minute. Blackburn should have been out of sight. They knew we were light in CM so hunted us in packs causing Swift and Kelly to make hurried passes in the centre.

2nd half Meite came on and bullied their left back. We had a good defensive shape and created more chances. Meite should have scored 2 in the second half and rightly should be feeling pretty embarrassed.

Ratings below

Martinez - 6 Comfortable and made a couple of good saves. 1 dodgy pass but I'll let him off.
Yiadom 7 - Thought he was good today. Got forward when he could defended well. A bit lucky not to get a yellow though.
Miazga 8 - literally bossed it and was my Man of the Match. Confident, strong, assured and commanding.
Moore - 7. 5 I thought he was really good today pretty much the same as Miazga.
Blackett 6 - A couple of hairy moments followed by some good ones but overall he was OK.

Ejaria 5 - Not a fan. He tried hard and he setup Meite for that one on one but apart from that he dallied and lost the ball a few times.

Kelly 5 - Big fan of Kelly but he wasn't great today. He doesn't have the physique to do all the closing down jobs but his passing should have much been better.

Swift 6 - Apart from the goal and assist he was pretty average.

Aluko 5 - He didn't have a great 1st half but in fairness he tracked back and put a shift in.

Richards 6.5 - He was quiet in the 1st half but 2nd half he was everywhere. Thought he should have squared it to swift or Nelson but he did put a big shift in the 2nd half.

Nelson 7.5 - I like him. He is classy, worked hard, scored a great goal and has that extra quality we were missing.

Subs
Meite 6.5 - Made a difference but should have scored 2.
Baker 6 - Not a lot of time to make an impact but he did block Dack twice from a corner where we had like 5 men on the line.
Bod - N/A

[Ascotexgunner]

Exactly this.

Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.

I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.

There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.

I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.

+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.

We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.

What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?

I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.

[Nameless]

On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.

Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.

Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.

But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid

Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.

The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.

First of all our ‘guaranteed’ bid doesn’t guarantee we save anything.
Someone else could under bid us and use the money they save to offer the player more. If they offer more, he’ll go there.
It’s just such a loose and woolly exercise.
I think we see this differently, I’m happy to accept our differences and perhaps move on.....

[Old Man Andrews]

+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.

We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.

What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?

I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.

Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.

[Hound]

I actually like us playing out from the back. Realise I'm in a bit of a minority, but we do it properly now and it creates opportunities. Very little of that horrible Stam ball where we bobbled it slowly from one side of the defence to the other

That fantastic move at the start of the second half after we seemingly had overplayed at the back was a great example of it working well. If you can draw in their midfield into a press, it leaves wide open spaces if you break through. And I'm confident enough in our defence to break the press and defend even if we do lose it.

[Hendo]

What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?

I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.

Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.

LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.

It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.

[Old Man Andrews]

I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.

Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.

LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.

It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.

Which is why no money was made available in January for Emery then.......... They are rich but do not provide significant transfer funds for their managers, haven't since they left Highbury. Keep up. Try not to take things literally either, pretty sure we all know they are a well off club that wasn't the point as you well know. You went for a cheap points score and failed.

[Greatwesternline]

But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid

Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.

The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.

First of all our ‘guaranteed’ bid doesn’t guarantee we save anything.
Someone else could under bid us and use the money they save to offer the player more. If they offer more, he’ll go there.
It’s just such a loose and woolly exercise.
I think we see this differently, I’m happy to accept our differences and perhaps move on.....

Precisely. Oliviera will go where he wants. Money will change hands between every party involved to facilitate and dictate where that final place is.

[URZZZZ]

A typical Jaap Stam 16/17 game. Play poorly, not really creating many chances but pounce as soon as we get one. But as I said after Wednesday, performances are now invalid. It's all about results. Everyone put their necks on the line to win the game, everyone wanted it. That's all you can ask for, and I think that was a big difference between today and the last two, we actually tried to win the game

Few points

1. Martinez, Miazga and Oliveira are quality, they ooze class. Don't like overreacting too much but every game they impress me more and more
2. Baker and Ejaria on the other hand are just not good enough, watched Ejaria three times now and he doesn't offer anything for me
3. We now have a solid back 5, it cannot be altered. Ok, Blackett was poor offensively last night but he still did his job defensively apart from one slice. Centre backs in particular really impress
4. Kelly continues to impress, quietly effective in his role and no coincidence we concede as soon as he goes off
5. Didn't miss our "so called" wingers one bit. Richards offers the same offensively but gives us a bit of balance on the left side, something Barrow and McCleary could only dream of doing
6. Swift blows too hot and cold but two bits of quality from him won us the game so bravo
7. Meite offered an outlet but he's so far from being good enough. Missed two sitters and cost a goal at the other end

Martinez - 7

Yiadom - 7
Moore - 7
Miazga - 7
Blackett - 5

Kelly - 7
Swift - 8

Ejaria - 5
Aluko - 5
Richards - 6

Oliveira - 9 MOM

Meite - 5

[Millsy]

I actually like us playing out from the back. Realise I'm in a bit of a minority, but we do it properly now and it creates opportunities. Very little of that horrible Stam ball where we bobbled it slowly from one side of the defence to the other

That fantastic move at the start of the second half after we seemingly had overplayed at the back was a great example of it working well. If you can draw in their midfield into a press, it leaves wide open spaces if you break through. And I'm confident enough in our defence to break the press and defend even if we do lose it.

Good points.

I am definitely warming to it but it does worry me a lot too. It's a risky game but for the first time I'm beginning to see its merits. It forces the opposition to press and then some quick turns and clever passes and we're bypasssing half of the opposition team. And sometimes a cheeky ball over the top when they're pressing and they get caught out especially with players like Oliveira up front.

[Ascotexgunner]

Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.

LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.

It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.

Which is why no money was made available in January for Emery then.......... They are rich but do not provide significant transfer funds for their managers, haven't since they left Highbury. Keep up. Try not to take things literally either, pretty sure we all know they are a well off club that wasn't the point as you well know. You went for a cheap points score and failed.

No money was made available not because they havnt got any, but because they are right on the FFP limit. Kronke could pump 200 million into the club but it wont mean they can spend it. A couple of years back it was known they had over 250 million in cash and that mountain was growing since they were self sufficient. Their wage bill is one of the highest on the planet and pretty much out of control.
They spent 120 mill on their 2 front men, theres plenty of cash there

[NewCorkSeth]

But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid

Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.

The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.

First of all our ‘guaranteed’ bid doesn’t guarantee we save anything.
Someone else could under bid us and use the money they save to offer the player more. If they offer more, he’ll go there.
It’s just such a loose and woolly exercise.
I think we see this differently, I’m happy to accept our differences and perhaps move on.....

Ok this is going around in circles.

The "option" we have on the loan is most likely a fixed price agreement. Norwich have negotiated with us a fair price that, upon completion of his loan, we (if we want to) can offer. This price is agreed. Norwich have to accept it as technically they have already accepted the bid on completion of the loan. All that this agreement guarantees is an accepted transfer bid.

Other clubs can come in and offer less, more or the same amount for Oliveira. That does not affect our bid. Our bid remains the same. They cannot refuse it in favour of another bid as, as I mentioned above, they have already accepted our bid.

Oliveira is not obligated to come here. Much like the Murray situation if he doesn't want to more to Reading he can say no.

These options are becoming more common in loans. More commonly clubs are demanding that the transfer goes ahead after the loan (apparently the reason Perisic to Arsenal fell apart, as Arsenal didn't want to have to buy him)

In the summer we have a bid already accepted for Oliveira. We would still have to negotiate a contract with him and he can still talk to any other clubs who has a bid accepted for him.

[Vision]

Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.

LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.

It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.

Which is why no money was made available in January for Emery then.......... They are rich but do not provide significant transfer funds for their managers, haven't since they left Highbury. Keep up. Try not to take things literally either, pretty sure we all know they are a well off club that wasn't the point as you well know. You went for a cheap points score and failed.

Lacazette and Aubameyang cost £100m between them so I'm not entirely sure that, as prudent as they undoubtedly are, there won't be money in the pot for a replacement for Cech .

As well as Cech , they'll be freeing up Ramsey's not unsubstantial wages and I suspect it's highly unlikely Ozil will be wearing an Arsenal shirt next season.

Certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that Martinez will still be considered 3rd choice. Of course no guarantee we will get him should he prove his worth here but I think his future lies away from Arsenal tbh.