Ghana v Uruguay

[Flyingkiwi]

There you go AP. Kraut shows Saurez how it's done WITHOUT cheating!

[Dirk Gently]

If Ghana had scored that penalty, would you be calling Suarez a cheat?

He knew he was trading his participation in the game for a small chance of keeping his team in the game - and because of the ineptitude of Ghana that small chance came off. But them's the rules....

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

If Ghana had scored that penalty, would you be calling Suarez a cheat?

Yes. The difference would be that he'd have received a fitting punishment for his cheating, rather than being carried shoulder high across the pitch as the hero.

He knew he was trading his participation in the game for a small chance of keeping his team in the game

Yep. He traded missing precisely 1 second of playing time in the match. Big sacrifice.

- and because of the ineptitude of Ghana that small chance came off. But them's the rules....

Indeed. And there are penalties that seem far too harsh a punishment for the offence, which is the other side of the coin.

[Flyingkiwi]

Dirk...

He cheated.

Yes he traded his participation for that small chance that Ghana would miss and, luckily for him and Uruguay, they did but that doesn't change the fact that he deliberately broke the rules and that is cheating!

[handbags_harris]

Ok, let's put a different angle on this. Where does professionalism end and cheating start?

[Sarah Star]

He took one for the team. As someone else said on here, one man's cheating is another man's cunning. Suarez may have deliberately played the rules (if not by them) and took the resulting punishment rather than concede a goal. That doesn't mean he knew Ghana would miss the penalty and I personally think it was an instinctive movement at the time rather than deliberate.

The fact that he's now revelling in his new-found hero status in the media for this is something separate that I wouldn't like to see go unpunished... and yes, I think he cheated in the game, but he has been punished for that - unlike Thierry Henry.

[Boston Royal]

By that logic AP, someone in prison is not a criminal because he got caught.

Suarez broke the rules (In the same situation, yes, most of us would have) and he knew what was coming. It was DELIBERATE. In my view, it doesn't really matter if you get caught or not. If you deliberately break the rules to give your team/try to give your team an unfair advantage, your punishment SHOULD be harsher (not a fan of the penalty goal/try scenario as it leaves too much up in the air). When Roy Keane deliberately kicked Alf Inge Haaland he was sent off. Does that mean that he is NOT a psychotic, cheating thug? After all; he was punished for it.

^This

I fully agree that it's hard to claim Suarez didn't cheat because he was punished, or because the rules allow deliberate handball if you accept the punishment of a red card and a penalty. The laws of the game are not a "exchange rate". Their spirit is not to say that it's fine to trade a handball or professional foul for a red card and a penalty. Otherwise, if you're the last defender, it'd be fine to rugby tackle the striker / punch him in the face to trade a certain goal for a penalty. I recall Keith Branagan did a deliberate handball outside the box for Bolton (around 1996 I think) in the last minute to stop a sure equalizer.

Similarly, I don't think there's anything in the rules to stop Materazzi insulting Zidane's sister to try to get him sent off, or taunting Danny Mills after his kid died to try to get him sent off, but that's still cheating.

The ends don't justify the means.

[Rex]

Ok, let's put a different angle on this. Where does professionalism end and cheating start?

One and the same but from opposing viewpoints.

[Sarah Star]

Similarly, I don't think there's anything in the rules to stop Materazzi insulting Zidane's sister to try to get him sent off, or taunting Danny Mills after his kid died to try to get him sent off, but that's still cheating.

Is it still cheating if there's nothing in the rules about it? I'm not so sure myself - particularly in the cases you mention. It's just not a very nice thing to do in any situation.

[SLAMMED]

My definition of cheating is breaking the rules to gain an advantage, which he clearly did to stop them scoring.

[Baines]

It's obviously cheating, but football incorpor8s quite a large degree of cheating in the average game in any event.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

It's obviously cheating, but football incorpor8s quite a large degree of cheating in the average game in any event.

to be frank, I don't think the issue of whether he cheated or not, or how you define cheating, is such an issue. There's no doubting what he did or why he did it, or even the fact that a lot of other players might well have done the same thing.

The problem (some) people have with it is that the punishment was too soft for the crime.

The other issue is that it seems totally wrong to have someone who committed a serious act of cheating to be hailed as a hero for that act.

[Boston Royal]

Similarly, I don't think there's anything in the rules to stop Materazzi insulting Zidane's sister to try to get him sent off, or taunting Danny Mills after his kid died to try to get him sent off, but that's still cheating.

Is it still cheating if there's nothing in the rules about it? I'm not so sure myself - particularly in the cases you mention. It's just not a very nice thing to do in any situation.

Fair point. I think you're right that "cheating" is probably defined as something against the rules, and if it's not breaking any rule, it's not cheating as you say. It is still worthy of reproach. I also agree with your earlier point that what's bad isn't so much the act but how he behaved afterwards. Many of us might have acted the same way in the situation, but it doesn't mean it's right. If I found $1,000 in the street I might not be able to repress the instinct to pick it up, but I probably wouldn't be happy with myself afterwards for doing so.

[Boston Royal]

The problem (some) people have with it is that the punishment was too soft for the crime.

Spot on. He knew that the red card meant nothing so close to the end of the game, and took advantage of the light punishment to cheat. If you're terminally ill with one month to live (the equivalent of 88th minute of a football game), it would be equally unjust to take advantage of the fact that the punishment of life imprisonment is soft for you, and murder anyone who's hassling your family and commit robbery to provide for them (the equivalent of taking one for the team). You'll pay the penalty set by the law and so will be following the "rules of the game" in a way, but I don't think anyone would agree it's right.

[leon]

this is all so much hypocritical boll*cks. Adrian Williams did exactly the same thing in 1994 and you twats weren't calling for his head on a plate were you. get a grip for f*ck's sake

[Flyingkiwi]

this is all so much hypocritical boll*cks. Adrian Williams did exactly the same thing in 1994 and you twats weren't calling for his head on a plate were you. get a grip for f*ck's sake

Oh For God Sake!!!

Nobody is being hypocritical here and I don't recall anyone calling for Saurez to be decapitated. The discussion was whether or not he cheated and, in my view, he did. So did Adrian Williams, so did anyone else that has done something similar and the claimed their actions had been "the best save in the world cup so far" as he has. Furthermore, most people have said that, in a similar situation, they would do the same (but perhaps not crow about it) so thanks for your input.

[royal tee]

this is all so much hypocritical boll*cks. Adrian Williams did exactly the same thing in 1994 and you twats weren't calling for his head on a plate were you. get a grip for f*ck's sake

Oh For God Sake!!!

Nobody is being hypocritical here and I don't recall anyone calling for Saurez to be decapitated. The discussion was whether or not he cheated and, in my view, he did. So did Adrian Williams, so did anyone else that has done something similar and the claimed their actions had been "the best save in the world cup so far" as he has. Furthermore, most people have said that, in a similar situation, they would do the same (but perhaps not crow about it) so thanks for your input.

Any player who has ever committed a foul has 'cheated' so that's going to be every player who has ever played football.

[Maguire]

"Cheating" is pretty emotive language. He didn't cheat, he committed an offence under the laws of the game and got punished for it. Or else you presumably you think shirt-pulling, climbing on a defenders shoulders, or any kind of foul is "cheating".

Cheating to me is trying to break the rules without any punishment or to deliberately try to insitgate a misapplication of the rules - diving for example, or play-acting after getting brushed in the face by the end of someone's little finger.

Suarez's comments afterwards may not have done him any credit, but the offence itself was understandable and dealt with appropriately - penalty, red card, suspension, done.

[brendywendy]

if i were playing at any level, and my team mate didnt hand ball a definite goal to stop it id be asking questions
but that still doesnt make it right, and in clear cut cases such as that i see no reason why they cant introduce a penalty goal rule in future

[Nick Shorey my Lord!]

Suarez's comments afterwards may not have done him any credit, but the offence itself was understandable and dealt with appropriately - penalty, red card, suspension, done.

This ^^^

Case closed.