Back from the shambles - Brum

[royal67]

I've had time to digest things after my initial anger, this being the second game since i've been visiting from the states after Burton. I don't mind losing, the very first season I became a Reading fan was the year we went down to Division 2 with Carl Asaba up front, we were crap that season and we were crap for many years after. The problem I have is the manner of the defeats. Few observations.

* As callers said on the radio why are you passing it around at the back when you are 2-0 down with 5 minutes to go? The players are either loyal to Stam ( despite BBCRB callers suggestions) or they are taking the mickey out of him, I think its probably the former so I am not convinced he's lost the dressing room. That's at least a positive, although it doesn't count for much with the way we are playing.

* It is evident we do not have the quality of players for this style. You need movement, vision and ability to execute passes. We don't have any of these attributes. Too many times I am seeing us play the ball out to Aluko or Barrow and they are waiting for the ball to roll to them and by the time it reaches them they've been closed down. It should be early and into space to give them half a yard and stretch the opposition. We only managed this a couple of times and after seeing Burton as well as many other games over the last season I am convinced it simply reached them because of the extra zip from the rain on the turf. Most of the time the opposition gets to the player the pass is intended for before the ball does. I watched Wolves shred Bristol City the other day with quality angled passing and through balls we can only dream of here. Sure they have spent 12/15 million on those players but that seems to be the style Stam is aiming for and we just do not have close to the quality to play it. There is no urgency and know-how with movement and no one that is pulling the opposition out of position creating gaps. It is painful to watch other teams simply organize themselves and effectively say "we will soak up the nothing passing and when they get frustrated we'll press and take possession", that's literally all teams need to do.

* On the rare times we do get the wingers into space, Kermogant and the rest of the team are five yards behind play when the ball comes into the box. I don't think he even won a header last night. He's a model professional and along with McShane I have massive respect for them both, but it looks to me their legs have gone and its a question of when they will be phased out. Kermie is usually good at what he does but last night against a physical defence that knew what was coming he was vastly out of his depth. He did well for the shot that went wide but that was about all I can remember.

* Clement/Swift. Too lightweight. Lots of technical ability between them but in the championship you need to be present throughout the game and you need to be decisive and control the tempo, neither did that.

* Defense. Utter shambles, again. We have a knack of giving teams goals out of nowhere and that's the most worrying thing about this team. Both Burton and City's first goals came from absolutely no pressure by the opposition, routine set piece and a throw we failed to clear and twice their players have been first to the ball lashing in. It doesn't matter how we play or how the tempo of the game is, we are easy to score against and we are good to concede at least two a game bar the odd Barnsley game. We have some talented players back there so there is absolutely no excuse why its so consistently awful.

* Stam. No plan B, consistently trying to implement a failing style despite the changing game environments. He's started snapping at the fans and the media now also which is very reminiscent of Rodgers last days at the club. You can't just continue to play the same style when its evident you do not have the players to play it.

Overall last season was last season, the variables are different and despite what people may think we are in a relegation scrap after spending 18 million on new players. Stam does not take all the responsibility for this. All summer most of the fan base were excited to sign a striker to push on, It was a case of when rather than if. When we complained it was getting too close to the deadline some criticised us raising concerns " you are all idiots, its coming, believe in the club, same crap from you guys every season, you aren't real fans bla bla bla". What happened? We signed an outcast from Wolves who has a track record of not being able to hit a barn door. We dumped our money in wingers and completely ignored the most glaringly obvious weakness with our team. We waited right before the window shut and complained the prices were too high, almost as if the recruitment team haven't been following football for the past decade. Utterly farcical and you reap what you sow.

Sign a striker. If Stam goes then at least we will have some firepower for whoever comes in. Goals win you games and we simply do not have any threat up front. It's not just the lack of goals the non existent movement up front will also be changed. We are not too good to go down, we've been made to look awful by three relegation rivals in a row.

Worrying times but its still my club.

A great post. I think that Stam could still take us down in to league 1 due to his tactical inflexibility but I would hope that the players have sufficient pride to at least make a go at staying up. I find it really frustrating seeing the team struggle so much at the moment. The apparent negativity in performances being shown is really destructive and needs to change. Let's hope that giving Stevenage a good thumping restores some self belief before it's too late......

[Hound]

Overall last season was last season, the variables are different and despite what people may think we are in a relegation scrap after spending 18 million on new players. Stam does not take all the responsibility for this. All summer most of the fan base were excited to sign a striker to push on, It was a case of when rather than if. When we complained it was getting too close to the deadline some criticised us raising concerns " you are all idiots, its coming, believe in the club, same crap from you guys every season, you aren't real fans bla bla bla". What happened? We signed an outcast from Wolves who has a track record of not being able to hit a barn door. We dumped our money in wingers and completely ignored the most glaringly obvious weakness with our team. We waited right before the window shut and complained the prices were too high, almost as if the recruitment team haven't been following football for the past decade. Utterly farcical and you reap what you sow.

Sign a striker. If Stam goes then at least we will have some firepower for whoever comes in. Goals win you games and we simply do not have any threat up front. It's not just the lack of goals the non existent movement up front will also be changed. We are not too good to go down, we've been made to look awful by three relegation rivals in a row.

Worrying times but its still my club.

all good points above, and agree with your analysis

re: a striker though - who will come? It wasn't the issue that we didn't try to sign a striker in the summer, and in some cases we were prepared to pay over the odds. I'm really not sure who is going to be jumping over themselves to join us in Jan.

For me, the squad is good enough to compete. We have Barrow, Aluko, McCleary, Bod, Yann, Beerens and Popa. Swift and Clement as no.10s. I don't believe that isn't a strong enough set of players to score enough to at least be mid table. Its a failing of the coaching that it isn't. Even if we had Hemed/Hugill/Oliveira I'm not sure we'd be faring much better

[Maneki Neko]

re: a striker though - who will come? It wasn't the issue that we didn't try to sign a striker in the summer, and in some cases we were prepared to pay over the odds. I'm really not sure who is going to be jumping over themselves to join us in Jan.

if we hadn't bought pointless midfielders and wingers we could have offered twice as much for a strike and probably got one

[Maneki Neko]

I don't mind losing, the very first season I became a Reading fan was the year we went down to Division 2 with Carl Asaba up front

cemented me as a reading fan that season.
loved it. weirdly

[notloyalenuffroyal]

Tbf maybe I am being harsh on GMAC didn't see all his cameo as I left only early for only the second time in my 15 years of season tickets, only other one I left was a home loss to West Ham when Nicky Shorey scored a late consolation free kick if I remember right

Tbf - no you weren't harsh. He was terrible apart from one ball. We entertained ourselves for the last 15 minutes on GMAC watch, seeing if he was going to get his kit dirty in the slightest. His aim seemed to be to keep it as shiny as he could. And crikey, sitting in row H his ridiculously tight shorts were offensive. My sis seemed to enjoy it though.
He would have gone off disappointed as his left sock had some mud on it at the end.

Thought Kelly at least tried hard to make a difference, but then back he came and sat in between Moore and McShane passing it sideways.

Of The other sub, Blackett, didn't really do much wrong and made a bit of a run early in the second half, but moving Bacuna to Joey's "five yard pass, give it away, or hoof it to the opposing goalkeeper" position only meant that Jeremy Corbin or whoever they were singing about, could suddenly walk anywhere he wanted.

"Ball in the testes" was clearly the only interesting moment of the game, Gunter's first attempt to get sent off so he doesn't have to play again soon, before he hoofed it into the away end at the end as the ref had clearly missed the first one. Missed this one too. Unlucky, Chris. You'll have to suffer defeat to Stevenage like the rest of us.

[genome]

League One might be fun, to be fair

[FiNeRaIn]

all good points above, and agree with your analysis

re: a striker though - who will come? It wasn't the issue that we didn't try to sign a striker in the summer, and in some cases we were prepared to pay over the odds. I'm really not sure who is going to be jumping over themselves to join us in Jan.
r

Thats a good point. In the summer we could have attracted a much wider base of players due to the playoff final and the promise of automatic promotion this season. The fact we are now in a relegation battle is going to mean our options are much more limited which is really frustrating. Season loan from the prem would be my choice now.

[Hound]

all good points above, and agree with your analysis

re: a striker though - who will come? It wasn't the issue that we didn't try to sign a striker in the summer, and in some cases we were prepared to pay over the odds. I'm really not sure who is going to be jumping over themselves to join us in Jan.
r

Thats a good point. In the summer we could have attracted a much wider base of players due to the playoff final and the promise of automatic promotion this season. The fact we are now in a relegation battle is going to mean our options are much more limited which is really frustrating. Season loan from the prem would be my choice now.

Yep. Even if we were about 13th I'd back us to be able to maybe bring in Hugill for example. No chance of that now. Loan is the best and only option I reckon. And even that is probably going to be some unproven stab in the dark Chuba Akpom style striker.

[NewCorkSeth]

Thought any team other than Birmingham would have scored more against us. For the second goal first McShane fannys about on the ball and gives it away then Clement does it. Is this the new dimension added to our style of play?!?
Instead of short, quick passing and retaining possession we have decided every 3rd pass should be a long ball forward for Yann to chase (slowly) or a cross field pass to give the opposition time to re-adjust their defensive line?
I thought there was quite a lot of bickering amongst the players too.. Kermie had a go at Barrow for taking a shot and Kelly had a go at Bacuna for not seeing his run into the box. Things might get worse..

[NewCorkSeth]

Anyone else see Fosu liked Bogas tweet about winning. Traitor.

[genome]

Boga looked very good. Left Bacuna for dead for their 2nd

[Hampshire Royal]

I listened to the game on the radio. The only thing more depressing would have been to be there!!

Tim and Mick said something interesting, in that they saw the relationship between Stam and Gourlay as being a partnership, rather than as Chief Exec and manager. This would explain Gourlay's comments about Stam being safe in his job.

[Brum Royal]

Last night was the first game since Birmingham away in August for me.

*First half going forwards I thought was ok in patches. We'd have a couple of quick passes or create an opening and slide a pass through for one of the forwards/wingers to latch on to and that seemed to work in the early stages - Barrow got in behind on the angle and there was another chance where someone (I forget who) got in behind with just the keeper. However, this was offset by a lack of movement off the ball and a lot of time when forward movement on the ball just stopped and the guy turned back and sideways and we lost any sort of momentum and it became pedestrian.

*The system of 4-2-3-1 first half was ok and seemed to sort of work as alluded to above. The main problem being that there was a huge gap between an the 4-2 (almost a back 6 at times) and the 3-1 meant that when we tried to go wide there was nobody to play a 45 degree ball through to to carry the move forward, and so we became more reliant on trying to slide passes between centre back and full back for wingers to get round the back on to, rather than continuing to build the play up the pitch.

*We actually made Stockdale make some decent saves last night (especially first half) - a couple of one on ones, the thundering drive from Gunter, the one he nearly spilled for a tap in - most (all?) of which were at 0-0. Had we scored one or even two of them it would have been a completely different game.

*The passing round the back 4/5 is almost suicidal at times. A couple of near misses on passes that could have allowed the Birmingham forwards in one on one. We never look especially comfortable, or with a ricket coming just around the corner.

*I don't understand why 18 months into Stam's tenure we are still so shambolic defensively. Managed/coached by one of the greatest centre backs of his generation, surely he must be able to pass on some of the Man United/Milan defensive tactics? Yes, we seem to make a lot of individual errors at the back, but that also seems to come from confusion about the system.

*As others have mentioned, the confidence is so frail that after we went 1-0 down the heads dropped, any confidence in the system gleaned from the first part of the first half evaporated and panic set in. We never really looked like creating a lot in the second half, and Blues could have won the game more comfortably in the end. This is one of the most worrying aspect of the performance last night, we just looked beaten after the first goal.

*During the second half last I thought back to the McDermott team of 11/12 - a solid backline, flying wingers, Ledge providing the disruption in the centre of the park, pace and power up top from Long - but also the seemingly more basic and simplistic style that we seemed to play then. Keep it tight at the back, soak up pressure, then hit with oodles of pace on the counter attack, get the ball wide and get the crosses flying in, but most of all a plan that the whole team clearly was invested in, believed in, and a team that was greater than the sum of it's parts. Compare that to the current crop - most seemed confused or stunted by the system Stam wants them to play, little to no cohesion, and arguably more talented individuals in some positions but all playing as individuals. Given the squad we have, I don't think it would be too difficult to forge the team into that McDermott 11/12 style of team, I just don't think we have the manager to do it, and that ultimately is what made my mind up last night, from a previously undecided to a very definite Stam out.

[cp]

I'm sure this had been said many times before, but since I feel strongly about it I'll say it again. Yes a new striker would be wonderful, but no matter how good a striker we have, if we pass the ball around in our own half continuously it won't help. We need to change tactics and get movement forward faster.

Surely Stam (who is fairly intelligent) can see that by doing the same things as we are, we will get the same results. To change the result you've got to change what you do.

[Coppells Lost Coat]

I'm sure this had been said many times before, but since I feel strongly about it I'll say it again. Yes a new striker would be wonderful, but no matter how good a striker we have, if we pass the ball around in our own half continuously it won't help. We need to change tactics and get movement forward faster.

Surely Stam (who is fairly intelligent) can see that by doing the same things as we are, we will get the same results. To change the result you've got to change what you do.

Surely a better more mobile striker would stretch/exploit/disrupt oppositions back line allowing our creative players actually do a job.
Every team we play, play with out fear and tbh it is gettin embarrassing.

[Victor Meldrew]

Anyway, can we talk about how fcuking hilarious it was when Gunter thundered that ball into the Brum player's bollocks?

It was probably the best thing I've seen all season.

That just about sums Gunter up-dead 'ard when he is 40 yards away and when he wellied the ball into the crowd after the game.
It's a shame that he doesn't show the same intensity when the game is going on.
He may not have been the worst last night but he epitomises the team being physically and mentally weak when the going gets tough-the same goes for Aluko and Clement.
As for Joey I have (boringly perhaps) been saying all season that the pub player should not be there-we don't need an immobile defensive midfielder especially when we are at home to the bottom club who hadn't won away all season.

Apologies for the name-dropping but in a conversation with Sir Steve some years ago he said that he set the team up but it was left to the players to use their own intelligence for working things out on the pitch-it strikes me that Stam (as per his interviews) insists on TELLING the players what to do.
This bunch of players appears to be not just weak but thick as well and the manager just isn't getting through to them.
It's time for the manager or the players to go and having spent all that money on new players with lengthy contracts I suspect the owners will go for the option of replacing the manager (if they care for the footballing side of the business) otherwise we are heading back again to the 3rd division.

[RoyalBlue]

Still struggling to get my mind around the claims that last night was evidence of how we miss AAH. Doubt he would have been able to save either of their goals and I suspect that we may have conceded at least one more due to the fact that he does not have the same ability and confidence as Mannone to deal with some of the almost suicidal back passes that we play.

[Brum Royal]

Still struggling to get my mind around the claims that last night was evidence of how we miss AAH. Doubt he would have been able to save either of their goals and I suspect that we may have conceded at least one more due to the fact that he does not have the same ability and confidence as Mannone to deal with some of the almost suicidal back passes that we play.

Agreed. Don't think Mannone did anything wrong last night (or in the other two games I've seen this season) to suggest AAH is the huge loss some people make him out to be. Obviously I'm only basing that on 3 out of 26 league games, but I certainly don't have any major grumbles about VM as a replacement for AAH.

[RoyalBlue]

Anyway, can we talk about how fcuking hilarious it was when Gunter thundered that ball into the Brum player's bollocks?

It was probably the best thing I've seen all season.

That just about sums Gunter up-dead 'ard when he is 40 yards away and when he wellied the ball into the crowd after the game.
It's a shame that he doesn't show the same intensity when the game is going on.
He may not have been the worst last night but he epitomises the team being physically and mentally weak when the going gets tough-the same goes for Aluko and Clement.
As for Joey I have (boringly perhaps) been saying all season that the pub player should not be there-we don't need an immobile defensive midfielder especially when we are at home to the bottom club who hadn't won away all season.

Apologies for the name-dropping but in a conversation with Sir Steve some years ago he said that he set the team up but it was left to the players to use their own intelligence for working things out on the pitch-it strikes me that Stam (as per his interviews) insists on TELLING the players what to do.
.

'As per his interviews'? For the last several interviews he has repeatedly stated that the players need to make their own decisions on the pitch and that too often they have made the wrong ones e.g. 'passing back to Vito rather than hitting it forwards'. For someone who supposedly insists on telling players what to do, he also spends very little time, compared to other managers, shouting and gesturing from the touchline. The most animated he became last night was when he was urging the players to get themselves and the ball forwards. He even stated after the game last night that he was frustrated because Liam Moore had pushed up front and they weren't getting the ball up to him.

[leon]

Still struggling to get my mind around the claims that last night was evidence of how we miss AAH. Doubt he would have been able to save either of their goals and I suspect that we may have conceded at least one more due to the fact that he does not have the same ability and confidence as Mannone to deal with some of the almost suicidal back passes that we play.

I wouldn’t bother - there are far bigger issues to worry about.