The Non - League thread

[Wax Jacket]

I was just wondering - my initial reaction was that half the people you see at NL matches often crop up doing some washing up etc.

but I can fully believe the VAT line too

[Royalist]

Seems Windsor are getting closer and closer to having the side that cheated us taxpayers back together. I suppose it's within the rules but it doesn't make it right. Perhaps 'reformed' sides or whatever they are called shouldn't be allowed promotion for up to 3 years allowing them to spend whatever money they have on the facilities. Seems to me the same mistakes will be made and not a whole lot has been learnt.

[Royal Rother]

Massive big yawn.

[Royalist]

Take your fan blinkers off Rother. This is more about the general health of non-league football rather than one club. Clubs at non league levels have no real incentive to not spend if all the punishment is a drop of a league or two, In Windsors case 2 leagues but if they spent within their means they should of been comfortable in league above, so what's to stop boom and bust clubs? I'm sure at least 50% of clubs are being kept afloat by money being pumped into them. It cannot last forever and i'm sure more clubs will go bust

[Alan Partridge]

Seems Windsor are getting closer and closer to having the side that cheated us taxpayers back together. I suppose it's within the rules but it doesn't make it right. Perhaps 'reformed' sides or whatever they are called shouldn't be allowed promotion for up to 3 years allowing them to spend whatever money they have on the facilities. Seems to me the same mistakes will be made and not a whole lot has been learnt.

Agree totally with this. Didcot beat Windsor twice last year and the 6 points they lost when Windsor folded ended up sending Didcot down, they could if Windsor win promotion this season end up in the same league next year. Something doesn't sit right with me about that.

Diddy by trying to run their club properly get done by that points deduction out of nothing of their own fault, Windsor start again with no penalties and 1 year later are in the same division.

[Royal Rother]

Take your fan blinkers off Rother. This is more about the general health of non-league football rather than one club. Clubs at non league levels have no real incentive to not spend if all the punishment is a drop of a league or two, In Windsors case 2 leagues but if they spent within their means they should of been comfortable in league above, so what's to stop boom and bust clubs? I'm sure at least 50% of clubs are being kept afloat by money being pumped into them. It cannot last forever and i'm sure more clubs will go bust

Windsor & Eton went bust due to Peter Simpson's incompetence and stupidity in chasing a dream and losing any semblance of control over the finances of the club.

Kevin Stott then came in and, having manfully tried to put together a rescue plan with no help whatsoever from a ridicuolously unhelpful Simpson who continued to tell his stories to the fans which were boring, irrelevant and bollocks, formed a new club with a vision for self sustainability. He was very very clear right the way through that whole process that the only way a club like Windsor could possibly survive whilst achieving was if other streams of income were developed separate from the football activities. If he felt that couldn't be achieved he wouldn't have got involved because he had zero intention of being a benefactor to a football club. Absolutely crystal clear about that.

He has spent an enormous amount of time and energy trying to put those building blocks in place to move the plans forward but, as he knew from the outset, dealing with the Crown takes a very very long time and their part of the arrangements have to be rubber-stamped before further investment can be made in those projects.

In the meantime he brought in the manager of his choice, Keith Scott, and that manager has put together a competitive team on a small budget. He has many contacts in the game but has brought in 4 players who were part of his promotion winning side from 2 years ago - they did a job for him then, they have a good relationship with him so it stands to reason he'd be chatting to them wherever he is manager. Why you would raise that as a negative is beyond me.

I just don't get what you have against Kevin Stott and Keith Scott. It's illogical and, frankly, it's childish. Neither of them were to blame for the demise of the old club. Neither were any of the 4 players who are back playing at Stag Meadow.

It is unfortunate what happened to AFC Totton the season we went up by 1 point, having run the club on an unsustainable budget; it is unfortunate what happened to Didcot last year when losing the points won against W&E meant they got relegated. Very unfortunate and you won't a Windsor fan who doesn't have sympathy for those clubs and their supporters, but this is a NEW club, with NEW money, a NEW committee and a NEW approach.

The bottom line here is that the fans would have been happy whatever league they put us into - we just want a team to watch on a Saturday afternoon.

[Red]

The bottom line here is that the fans would have been happy whatever league they put us into - we just want a team to watch on a Saturday afternoon.

Quite, I don't suppose you got many glory hunters at Stag Meadow afterall.

[Tredder]

I just don't get what you have against Kevin Stott and Keith Scott. It's illogical and, frankly, it's childish. Neither of them were to blame for the demise of the old club. Neither were any of the 4 players who are back playing at Stag Meadow.

The bottom line here is that the fans would have been happy whatever league they put us into - we just want a team to watch on a Saturday afternoon.

It's a name, a brand, a club, it doesn't matter who owns it, what steps they have made, who is the manager etc.. the club were at fault, someone installed a new owner, a chairman, and irrespective of pipe dreams, it failed.

Quick fix success merchants don''t belong in football, at any level, every club should be sustainable and work within it's financial restraints, maybe something the league should look at, upper limit wage bills, transfer fees capped at a certain level, then increased as they go up the pyramid.

The 6 points lost by Didcot, subsequently relegating them, could have out them out of business, through no fault of their own, and as AP states, for them to be playing Windsor within 2 seasons, seems wrong.

[Royal Rother]

It is a different, name, a different brand and a different club.

This is NOT like yer Portsmouths, carrying on as if nothing much happened. The old club based at Stag Meadow went out of existence and if it hadn't been for Kevin Stott coming forward with a vision and no little energy (plus a bucket load of patience and a healthy bank balance to fund things in Year 1) there might have been no more football in Windsor for the forseeable future. Would that have benefitted anybody? I suppose it might have given some people cause for celebration but in reality I don't think so.

As I said before, Windsor fans would have been happy whatever league we were put into but the blazers made their decision and everyone lives with it.

Not much more I can say about Didcot - if we play them next season it might seem wrong to some - to most it'll just be another fixture. people do move on much quicker in non-league football. Grudges are few and far between it seems to me.

[Terminal Boardom]

Take your fan blinkers off Rother. This is more about the general health of non-league football rather than one club. Clubs at non league levels have no real incentive to not spend if all the punishment is a drop of a league or two, In Windsors case 2 leagues but if they spent within their means they should of been comfortable in league above, so what's to stop boom and bust clubs? I'm sure at least 50% of clubs are being kept afloat by money being pumped into them. It cannot last forever and i'm sure more clubs will go bust

So you are fully au fait with how Windsor FC is run, managed and financed. You are also fully conversant with how much money comes into, and goes out of the club. Added to that, you are obviously aware as to what the playing budget is. I don't know what the budget is and I don't want to know as it is not my area. Also your original post, which RR bit, alluded little to non-league football in general but more as an attack on what Kevin Stott is doing. But I do agree with your last comment. No-one in their right mind would suggest otherwise. That is why Kevin and others are doing everything they can to ensure that Windsor FC becomes self sustainable and that there is a legacy in place for many years to come. Just what is it about that that you have a problem with?

Didcot beat Windsor twice last year and the 6 points they lost when Windsor folded ended up sending Didcot down, they could if Windsor win promotion this season end up in the same league next year. Something doesn't sit right with me about that.

Diddy by trying to run their club properly get done by that points deduction out of nothing of their own fault, Windsor start again with no penalties and 1 year later are in the same division.

AP, I fully sympathise and empathise with your opinion and what happened to Didcot Town last season.

Royalist, have you been keeping an eye on attendances at Stag Meadow this season? In W&E's championship season, the average was 175. The current average is 187 after 9 league games. Why do you think that is? It certainly isn't because we are in a league where we gain more away supporters.

I have got faith and confidence in what Kevin is doing and trying to do. There is a group of players at Stag Meadow who love the club, the place and the fans. The supporters are attending games, both home and away and in good numbers. Just what is so wrong with that?

[Hoop Blah]

....but this is a NEW club, with NEW money, a NEW committee and a NEW approach.

It's not really though is it? It's largely the same fans watching what they see as their same old club at the same old ground (and with the same manager to boot). It's effectively the same club and you really can't deny that can you?

If they were a brand new club with no existing infrastructure then I don't think they'd have been accepted straight into the CCL for a start, let alone CCL Prem.

I don't think there's a lot more that could be done in the circumstances (apart from perhaps making the new club start a little further down the pyramid), but you have to accept the criticism and potential ill-feeling towards a club who'd recklessness (whoever was in charge) has cost other clubs dearly.

RR, I'm sure you're usually one who is all for clubs like Portsmouth, Leeds and Leicester carrying the can for their owners actions. It seems a little ironic that you're defending this position now it's your club who's getting the flak.

[Terminal Boardom]

Back to football on the pitch. Windsor have a tough task tomorrow away to South Park. They gave us a bit of a run around in our first league fixture and they have also reached the 4th Round of the FA Vase. They are certainly one of the best teams I have seen this season and also one of the friendliest which is why I am really looking forward to the game.

[Svlad Cjelli]

There's a sub-committee of the FA which decides the appropriate League in which each new (or reformed) club should start playing - contrary to popular opinion, it's not a case of "start at the bottom" for everyone.

Perhaps it ought to be "start at the bottom" for everyone, but the argument is that an "AFC Portsmouth" (or equivalent), potentially playing at Fratton Park and taking 1,000 or so to each away game, would be wholly inappropriate playing the likes of Sandhurst Town or Binfield etc - hence starting at the appropriate level.

[Royal Rother]

....but this is a NEW club, with NEW money, a NEW committee and a NEW approach.

It's not really though is it? It's largely the same fans watching what they see as their same old club at the same old ground (and with the same manager to boot). It's effectively the same club and you really can't deny that can you?

If they were a brand new club with no existing infrastructure then I don't think they'd have been accepted straight into the CCL for a start, let alone CCL Prem.

I don't think there's a lot more that could be done in the circumstances (apart from perhaps making the new club start a little further down the pyramid), but you have to accept the criticism and potential ill-feeling towards a club who'd recklessness (whoever was in charge) has cost other clubs dearly.

RR, I'm sure you're usually one who is all for clubs like Portsmouth, Leeds and Leicester carrying the can for their owners actions. It seems a little ironic that you're defending this position now it's your club who's getting the flak.

I don't think you get it. I'm defending nothing. Yes I want clubs to carry the can for their owners' actions which is exactly what happened at Windsor.

The new club at Stag Meadow was placed into a League 2 Steps lower than the one the old club finished in. It could, and arguably should, have been more. I'd be more than happy if that happened to every professional club who went into administration.

[Alan Partridge]

I think there is still a fair amount of bitterness at DTFC about it all, especially with the supporters but it's not really Windsor's fault, they don't make the rules. It would have cost Didcot a hell of a lot of money, instead of having Weymouth, Leamington and the like who bring 150 of their own fans Diddy are playing North Leigh and Thatcham who don't have 150 between them. It's also lost numbers on their home crowds as well as any of their better players have left, only 1 player is on the books this year that was there last year.

I think it should be a rule throughout football that if you enter administration or reform a club that you can't be promoted for x amount of seasons, I think 2 would suffice rather than 3 personally. I think after 2 seasons the club should be able to prove it's long standing solvency to the league authorities to say look we made mistakes last time but this is a new club and this is how we are going to do it. There needs to be a lot tougher punishments for clubs that basically cheat to win success. They either get bailed out ala Portsmouth/Argyle or reform like Rushden or in this case Windsor, drop a couple of leagues and start all over again and to hell with everyone else trying to live by the rules. It encourages boom and bust football too much for my liking. Not being promoted for a couple of years like I say then allows the club time to rebuild, prove their solvency whilst also offering them no reward. They are relgated 2 divisions and are staying there at least for a couple of years.

[Hoop Blah]

....but this is a NEW club, with NEW money, a NEW committee and a NEW approach.

It's not really though is it? It's largely the same fans watching what they see as their same old club at the same old ground (and with the same manager to boot). It's effectively the same club and you really can't deny that can you?

If they were a brand new club with no existing infrastructure then I don't think they'd have been accepted straight into the CCL for a start, let alone CCL Prem.

I don't think there's a lot more that could be done in the circumstances (apart from perhaps making the new club start a little further down the pyramid), but you have to accept the criticism and potential ill-feeling towards a club who'd recklessness (whoever was in charge) has cost other clubs dearly.

RR, I'm sure you're usually one who is all for clubs like Portsmouth, Leeds and Leicester carrying the can for their owners actions. It seems a little ironic that you're defending this position now it's your club who's getting the flak.

I don't think you get it. I'm defending nothing. Yes I want clubs to carry the can for their owners' actions which is exactly what happened at Windsor.

The new club at Stag Meadow was placed into a League 2 Steps lower than the one the old club finished in. It could, and arguably should, have been more. I'd be more than happy if that happened to every professional club who went into administration.

You want to re-read your post then if you're not trying to defend anything as it certainly comes across as defending the process, especially when you state it's a NEW club. It's not, it's just a re-invention of it once the previous incarnation went tits up.

Dirk, my understanding is that the leagues accepting a club still decide whether that club can enter it's structure. That could well be wrong though.

[Royal Rother]

I think there is still a fair amount of bitterness at DTFC about it all, especially with the supporters but it's not really Windsor's fault, they don't make the rules. It would have cost Didcot a hell of a lot of money, instead of having Weymouth, Leamington and the like who bring 150 of their own fans Diddy are playing North Leigh and Thatcham who don't have 150 between them. It's also lost numbers on their home crowds as well as any of their better players have left, only 1 player is on the books this year that was there last year.

I think it should be a rule throughout football that if you enter administration or reform a club that you can't be promoted for x amount of seasons, I think 2 would suffice rather than 3 personally. I think after 2 seasons the club should be able to prove it's long standing solvency to the league authorities to say look we made mistakes last time but this is a new club and this is how we are going to do it. There needs to be a lot tougher punishments for clubs that basically cheat to win success. They either get bailed out ala Portsmouth/Argyle or reform like Rushden or in this case Windsor, drop a couple of leagues and start all over again and to hell with everyone else trying to live by the rules. It encourages boom and bust football too much for my liking. Not being promoted for a couple of years like I say then allows the club time to rebuild, prove their solvency whilst also offering them no reward. They are relgated 2 divisions and are staying there at least for a couple of years.

I don't disagree with that fundamentally.

But it would make it far less attractive to a new owner putting himself and his money on the line if there was no prospect of promotion in the 1st 2 seasons. Because his is a long-term plan I suspect Kevin Stott would probably have got involved anyway, but many wouldn't.

[Hoop Blah]

Perhaps then clubs might not be so willing to risk going bust then.

Surely part of the problem is that the rewards on offer outweigh the risks and so they do it. If the fans, committee's and owners knew that the consequences were greater they may just think things through a bit more and not 'cheat' so much.

[Alan Partridge]

I think there is still a fair amount of bitterness at DTFC about it all, especially with the supporters but it's not really Windsor's fault, they don't make the rules. It would have cost Didcot a hell of a lot of money, instead of having Weymouth, Leamington and the like who bring 150 of their own fans Diddy are playing North Leigh and Thatcham who don't have 150 between them. It's also lost numbers on their home crowds as well as any of their better players have left, only 1 player is on the books this year that was there last year.

I think it should be a rule throughout football that if you enter administration or reform a club that you can't be promoted for x amount of seasons, I think 2 would suffice rather than 3 personally. I think after 2 seasons the club should be able to prove it's long standing solvency to the league authorities to say look we made mistakes last time but this is a new club and this is how we are going to do it. There needs to be a lot tougher punishments for clubs that basically cheat to win success. They either get bailed out ala Portsmouth/Argyle or reform like Rushden or in this case Windsor, drop a couple of leagues and start all over again and to hell with everyone else trying to live by the rules. It encourages boom and bust football too much for my liking. Not being promoted for a couple of years like I say then allows the club time to rebuild, prove their solvency whilst also offering them no reward. They are relgated 2 divisions and are staying there at least for a couple of years.

I don't disagree with that fundamentally.

But it would make it far less attractive to a new owner putting himself and his money on the line if there was no prospect of promotion in the 1st 2 seasons. Because his is a long-term plan I suspect Kevin Stott would probably have got involved anyway, but many wouldn't.

Tough, basically.

If a person or consortium(hopefully fan run or involved at least) have the clubs honest good intentions at heart then you'd like to think they'd get involved in the club to give you 'a team to watch on a Saturday afternoon' that may be 2 levels, 3 levels or 4 levels down on the previous club but there will be a club there, ran honestly and to whatever budget it can afford and sustain.If that rule stops another fly by night pillock buying a club only to make it go to the wall 3 years later then all the better.

[Royal Rother]

You want to re-read your post then if you're not trying to defend anything as it certainly comes across as defending the process, especially when you state it's a NEW club. It's not, it's just a re-invention of it once the previous incarnation went tits up.

Still somewhat confused here.

I haven't supported or defended a process, merely explained the thinking and rationale behind the formation of the NEW club. But having put himself in the firing line I will certainly defend Kevin Stott's right to appoint the manager of his choice, and that manager's right to put a team together of HIS choosing.

There are a few people like Royalist who wanted to see the club reform on park pitches with local youngsters donning the red and green and resent the fact that Keith Scott (who, for whatever reason, they just don't like) was brought back in. Fair enough, I have no problem with the park-football vision but I really think it's time to move on from that viewpoint as we are are where we are.

There are some ex Windsor & Eton supporters who dislike Scott so much they won't come back to Stag Meadow whilst he is around (it appears to be personal rather than anything rational or football related) but, as TB pointed out, crowds are up despite being in a lower league so, although it's a very slow process, the new club is obviously making SOME progress.

Seems a good time to mention again that the home game (top of the table clash) against Egham on 27th December is a 1pm KO, and FREE ENTRY to everyone.

Now that'll bump the average crowd up!!