BFTG - Blackburn

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Scared to shit out me in one incident in the 2nd half when he played 2 short passes to players with Blackburn all over them, we got away with it but it had a quite a few hearts fluttering.

That's kind of the point in the way Gomes wants us to play. Take educated risks, trust players and draw the opposition in to create space, we aren't there with it yet but when we are it will be very hard to defend. We got it right at the start of the 2nd half last night and bar a defender flinging himself at the ball in desperation we would have been on for goal of the season.

Yep made the same point earlier in the thread

The philosophy is to bring the oppo midfielders into the press and then break past them. How quickly we went from our own area into a brilliant attacking position shows how it can work on that occasion. And the more you do it, the more the opposition don't know whether to press or hang back, creating even more gaps to exploit. I think it always looks more risky than it is at times - is probably no worse than hoofing a ball to the oppo CB's forehead to power back into your own half

It's not a case of 'getting away with it', you accept the risk to create yourself an opportunity. It was shit under Stam because rather than look to exploit the space, we kept possession for the sake of it.

We missed the high energy of Rino last night. Instead we had the likes of Kelly and Swift not really covering the ground needed to make space available for themselves or others. Gomes made the mistake thinking Kelly / Swift could do this in Rino absence.

[Maneki Neko]

What a likeable bloke he is BUT this is still Stam/Clementball

I actually like us playing out from the back. Realise I'm in a bit of a minority, but we do it properly now and it creates opportunities. Very little of that horrible Stam ball where we bobbled it slowly from one side of the defence to the other

That fantastic move at the start of the second half after we seemingly had overplayed at the back was a great example of it working well. If you can draw in their midfield into a press, it leaves wide open spaces if you break through. And I'm confident enough in our defence to break the press and defend even if we do lose it.

agree with the latter, not the former

it seems quite different to me.one was aimless.one is not
stam ball was passing it around at the back without the quick breaks once we drew them out.


& its very hard to do either without decent defenders/goalkeeper

[Hendo]

Does anyone know what happened to the person that collapsed towards the end of the game all the stewards were running up there?

Was just down by me, didn't see it but it took the stewards a fair amount of time to react and it was only when people were shouting/whistling/waving did they notice.

There was a guy being helped down the stairs, so I think it might've just been a fall, rather than anything more serious. It was cleared before I started to make my way down from AA.

[Stranded]

That's kind of the point in the way Gomes wants us to play. Take educated risks, trust players and draw the opposition in to create space, we aren't there with it yet but when we are it will be very hard to defend. We got it right at the start of the 2nd half last night and bar a defender flinging himself at the ball in desperation we would have been on for goal of the season.

Yep made the same point earlier in the thread

The philosophy is to bring the oppo midfielders into the press and then break past them. How quickly we went from our own area into a brilliant attacking position shows how it can work on that occasion. And the more you do it, the more the opposition don't know whether to press or hang back, creating even more gaps to exploit. I think it always looks more risky than it is at times - is probably no worse than hoofing a ball to the oppo CB's forehead to power back into your own half

It's not a case of 'getting away with it', you accept the risk to create yourself an opportunity. It was shit under Stam because rather than look to exploit the space, we kept possession for the sake of it.

We missed the high energy of Rino last night. Instead we had the likes of Kelly and Swift not really covering the ground needed to make space available for themselves or others. Gomes made the mistake thinking Kelly / Swift could do this in Rino absence.

Disagree he made a mistake as not really sure what other options he had for CM - last night perhaps showed the benefit of Bacuna who fulfilled a similar role.

[Millsy]

Well you think it’s a ‘smart’ system, so we probably disagree there !
I don’t know if you are right or wrong and unless we get sight of the contracts I guess we can’t be sure.
I think the system you have explained is somewhat pointless and you’ve not really highlighted any benefits for the potential buying club.
As I said while ago , not sure where else this debate goes. I’m sure we both hope the loan players are successful and any we think can do a long term job decide they want to stay, whether or not we have an ‘option’ on them.

How can there be no benefits for the buying club? I'm confused. To exaggerate the point to demonstrate: isn't it obvious that if Oliveira scores 50 goals his price would rocket and even if we wanted him at the end of the season we wouldn't afford his £30million price tag. But as a price for, let's say £5mill, has already been agreed we're laughing! How can that not be a beneficial to us!? Of course others may come in and offer the £30million and he may end up going elsewhere, but there's a chance he may prefer our contract so we may then get him. If he ends up being shit anyway like Vydra we won't want him anyway so it doesn't matter. Like everything in business it's a punt. A bit like a fixed rate vs a variable mortgage. It's such an obvious potential benefit to a buying club I wonder if I'm missing something....

Thank you. I felt like I was going insane there for a minute.

Phew, same here!

[Millsy]

How can there be no benefits for the buying club? I'm confused. To exaggerate the point to demonstrate: isn't it obvious that if Oliveira scores 50 goals his price would rocket and even if we wanted him at the end of the season we wouldn't afford his £30million price tag. But as a price for, let's say £5mill, has already been agreed we're laughing! How can that not be a beneficial to us!? Of course others may come in and offer the £30million and he may end up going elsewhere, but there's a chance he may prefer our contract so we may then get him. If he ends up being shit anyway like Vydra we won't want him anyway so it doesn't matter. Like everything in business it's a punt. A bit like a fixed rate vs a variable mortgage. It's such an obvious potential benefit to a buying club I wonder if I'm missing something....

Thank you. I felt like I was going insane there for a minute.

No, I’ll admit to playing a bit of the devil’s advocate ...
I’m still not wholly convinced and agree 100% it’s a punt which will probably pay somerimes and not others
Still think it all hangs on the player and gives them massive control.

Fair play mate, devil's advocate is great for a discussion board, generates good chat. I do it all the time.

I've certainly learnt something through this, cheers to all involved.

[Nameless]

Thank you. I felt like I was going insane there for a minute.

No, I’ll admit to playing a bit of the devil’s advocate ...
I’m still not wholly convinced and agree 100% it’s a punt which will probably pay somerimes and not others
Still think it all hangs on the player and gives them massive control.

Fair play mate, devil's advocate is great for a discussion board, generates good chat. I do it all the time.

I've certainly learnt something through this, cheers to all involved.

Yep, definitely feel more educated and grateful to Seth and Stranded for sharing their insights.
Sorry if anyone felt I was on the windup !

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Yep made the same point earlier in the thread

The philosophy is to bring the oppo midfielders into the press and then break past them. How quickly we went from our own area into a brilliant attacking position shows how it can work on that occasion. And the more you do it, the more the opposition don't know whether to press or hang back, creating even more gaps to exploit. I think it always looks more risky than it is at times - is probably no worse than hoofing a ball to the oppo CB's forehead to power back into your own half

It's not a case of 'getting away with it', you accept the risk to create yourself an opportunity. It was shit under Stam because rather than look to exploit the space, we kept possession for the sake of it.

We missed the high energy of Rino last night. Instead we had the likes of Kelly and Swift not really covering the ground needed to make space available for themselves or others. Gomes made the mistake thinking Kelly / Swift could do this in Rino absence.

Disagree he made a mistake as not really sure what other options he had for CM - last night perhaps showed the benefit of Bacuna who fulfilled a similar role.

I agree he didn't have many other options other than starting Baker instead of either Swift or Kelly - which I think would have worked better.
Playing out from the back requires the constant movement in front of them, relentless running to open the spaces across the midfield. This is why Bacuna and Rino midfield worked and a Swift Kelly does not and never really has with out the high energy player in the middle, we lost Williams and both Kelly and Swift suffered since.
Rino has the energy, drive and tempo to keep making space for everyone. Kelly and Swift in the CM position does not.
What i'm getting at is Kelly and Swift is not a partnership to have in the middle.

[3points]

guy sat behind me last night kept saying how much a donkey Miazga was and that he is so slow. At one point even resorted to braying noises at which point i had to turn around and glare at him. Obviously a) wasn't a regular and b) not a Reading fan judging by most of his comments

Didn't think Maizga put a foot wrong again last night

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

WE WERE BRILLIANT

And last but not least for me: Martinez. Possibly the best keeper I've seen play for Reading. For me even better than USA.

You are trippin'! he's decent I'll grant you that, but AAH in his pomp was better. Are you old enough to remember Shakka?

[Jagermesiter1871]

Am I the only one who thought Meite was utter shit and could have cost us the game by missing two sitters and losing his man for the goal?

No I posted this and was widely ridiculed. He's just not very good at football and doesn't have even a modicum of natural intution. Did anyone actually expect him to finish those chances yesterday? I'd fancy Moore to finish them.. more.

[Hendo]

WE WERE BRILLIANT

And last but not least for me: Martinez. Possibly the best keeper I've seen play for Reading. For me even better than USA.

You are trippin'! he's decent I'll grant you that, but AAH in his pomp was better.

LOL.

He could pull a world class save out of nowhere but Martinez is by far the better all round 'keeper.

[Nameless]

Am I the only one who thought Meite was utter shit and could have cost us the game by missing two sitters and losing his man for the goal?

No I posted this and was widely ridiculed. He's just not very good at football and doesn't have even a modicum of natural intution. Did anyone actually expect him to finish those chances yesterday? I'd fancy Moore to finish them.. more.

The run that saw him drag his shot wide was pure natural intuition though.
Part of his effectiveness though is he’s so raw. Hard to defend against a player who isn’t sure what he’s going to do. He gave their defence plenty of problems.
He proved earlier in the season he CAN Finish chances but his problem is consistency.

[biff]

Oliveira has a touch of the Kitsons about him. Been warned by a few Nodge fans that he'll soon lose interest and become a hindrance though. Hopefully just bitterness talking.

[windermereROYAL]

guy sat behind me last night kept saying how much a donkey Miazga was and that he is so slow. At one point even resorted to braying noises at which point i had to turn around and glare at him. Obviously a) wasn't a regular and b) not a Reading fan judging by most of his comments

Didn't think Maizga put a foot wrong again last night

Everybody sees things differently, you only have to look at this forum to see that, personally I think he`s a very good signing.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Just watched the highlights. I've given Ejaria some stick, but fantastic ball through to Meite for that chance he should've buried. God knows how we managed to keep that corner out at the end. Blackburn's corners were probs the most dangerous I've seen this seen - a touch of the Morten Gamst Pedersens.

[Ascotexgunner]

Dare I ask but what has that done to the Gomes v Clement % win comparison?

Clement 6 in 28. Gomes 2 in 9, so Jose is slightly ahead.

Thank you .....

[Denver Royal]

Dare I ask but what has that done to the Gomes v Clement % win comparison?

At a guess, more likely to be keyed on after Sheff Utd on Sat.

Gomes made the mistake thinking Kelly / Swift could do this in Rino absence.

Don’t know he was thinking that. Maybe he knew they couldn’t, but didn’t fancy his other options.
(Btw, Eza, played 4 games, hard for me to bank on him for much at this point).

guy sat behind me last night kept saying how much a donkey Miazga was and that he is so slow. At one point even resorted to braying noises at which point i had to turn around and glare at him. Obviously a) wasn't a regular and b) not a Reading fan judging by most of his comments

Miazga moves ok for a big guy, and he’s looked pretty fit to me. Scope for improvement, of course.

Eja needs a lot more coaching (assuming he’s willing to take it on board).
Oliveira…wonder what Bod and Meite must be thinking when they watch him.
(Oliveira’s contract chat interesting, would be better in his thread for reference, rather than a random game thread, but good chat).
Martinez, have to think some of criticism is born of disliking concept of playing out from back. Not used to it, don’t understand it, don’t like it, never will, etc. Thus, keying on 1 pass that will go astray.
As in most Champ games, in a game like that you can’t carry any one and passengers stick out. See Aluko.

[Ascotexgunner]

guy sat behind me last night kept saying how much a donkey Miazga was and that he is so slow. At one point even resorted to braying noises at which point i had to turn around and glare at him. Obviously a) wasn't a regular and b) not a Reading fan judging by most of his comments

Didn't think Maizga put a foot wrong again last night

Everybody sees things differently, you only have to look at this forum to see that, personally I think he`s a very good signing.

He is an excellent signing. He is a no nonsense defender who does a job rather than try to look pretty on the ball.
He and Martinez are the reasons Id say that have changed our fortunes at the back. Their a good unit....

[Nameless]

Hard to understand criticism of regarding pace. Several times last night he got into foot races with one of their forwards (shortish guy) who was pretty rapid. Kept pace with him and looked fairly comfortable.