Gomes after 10 League Games

[Zip]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

[Snowball]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

Forget which player it was, but one said that the team had lacked the confidence
to push on when 1-0 up and tended to drop deeper, giving the opposition the
opportunity to pile forward. He said that's natural when you're a team struggling
at the bottom.

If we get a good start next season, hopefully we will go for those second and third goals.

A few times recently we have been pegged back or gone behind, thrown everything at
another goal and got one. Maybe we should be more attack-minded!

[Snowflake Royal]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

It's interesting though that on one hand people are raving about how much difference the loanees have made and on the other hand saying Clement was too shit to have done any better.

I rather think that if Clement had got the same loanees (certainly possible) we'd have continued to improve under him (there was clear if slight improvement).

Of course, Gomes has done brilliantly, so I very much doubt we'd have got as many good results as recently, but I also don't think we'd have had that five game collapse like we did under Marshall and before Gomes could effect change.

In fact, as Denver likes to bring up regularly people (me included) said that no one would do better than Clement with the same squad... clearly Gomes has done very well, but until he could start bringing in the loanees his record was P3, W0, D1, L2, F1, A5, GD -4, Pts 1, ppg 0.33... which is obviously too few to make a proper sample and unfair to judge someone so early, but it does suggest that it was accurate that not much more than Clement managed could be achieved with that group of players. Especially adding in the three Marshall results that make it
P6, W0, D2, L4, F2, A9, GD -7, Pts 2, Ppg 0.33


We'll never know if Clement would have got the same loanees, or got as much out of them or improved performances from others. And we're happy with Gomes. But I do think Clement is dismissed too easily and without much evidence.

[From Despair To Where?]

You want evidence? Well, I'd certainly give some weight to what Liam Moore has to say on the issue: Clement struggling to get his ideas across, Gomes being clearer in his instructions and his ability to ship out the negative influences.

Also, Gomes just seems a more positive personality, a much better motivator and on the face of it, has invested so much more emotionally than Clement ever did.

I can imagine that having a big influence on how well the players are performing.

[Hound]

It’s all speculation of course, but it would have been interesting to see how Clement got on with Howe backing rather than the dreadful Gourlay

Certainly from some of the noise coming out, Clement wasn’t the answer long term. But I also think he was a little unlucky to be sacked when he was. The injuries to Eza, Bod, Meite and Baldock really hit what he was trying to do

Now whether I’d still back saying it was a mistake to sack him when we did - no probably not. Gomes has certainly invigorated both the team and the club.

[Zip]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

It's interesting though that on one hand people are raving about how much difference the loanees have made and on the other hand saying Clement was too shit to have done any better.

I rather think that if Clement had got the same loanees (certainly possible) we'd have continued to improve under him (there was clear if slight improvement).

Of course, Gomes has done brilliantly, so I very much doubt we'd have got as many good results as recently, but I also don't think we'd have had that five game collapse like we did under Marshall and before Gomes could effect change.

In fact, as Denver likes to bring up regularly people (me included) said that no one would do better than Clement with the same squad... clearly Gomes has done very well, but until he could start bringing in the loanees his record was P3, W0, D1, L2, F1, A5, GD -4, Pts 1, ppg 0.33... which is obviously too few to make a proper sample and unfair to judge someone so early, but it does suggest that it was accurate that not much more than Clement managed could be achieved with that group of players. Especially adding in the three Marshall results that make it
P6, W0, D2, L4, F2, A9, GD -7, Pts 2, Ppg 0.33


We'll never know if Clement would have got the same loanees, or got as much out of them or improved performances from others. And we're happy with Gomes. But I do think Clement is dismissed too easily and without much evidence.

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

[Zip]

You want evidence? Well, I'd certainly give some weight to what Liam Moore has to say on the issue: Clement struggling to get his ideas across, Gomes being clearer in his instructions and his ability to ship out the negative influences.

Also, Gomes just seems a more positive personality, a much better motivator and on the face of it, has invested so much more emotionally than Clement ever did.

I can imagine that having a big influence on how well the players are performing.

+1

[Snowflake Royal]

You want evidence? Well, I'd certainly give some weight to what Liam Moore has to say on the issue: Clement struggling to get his ideas across, Gomes being clearer in his instructions and his ability to ship out the negative influences.

Also, Gomes just seems a more positive personality, a much better motivator and on the face of it, has invested so much more emotionally than Clement ever did.

I can imagine that having a big influence on how well the players are performing.

It was pretty clear Clement had already identified much the same players to shift, but you can't do it in November. Undoubtedly Gomes has done better with the likes of Barrow and Swift, but also regressed for a while with Meite and has binned Kelly entirely.

I come back to the point though, that it's widely hailed on here that the loanees have changed our season far more than any of the (clear) improvements in the squad Gomes inherited.

Completely agree Gomes is much more upbeat and engaging. But this is his dream opportunity, so hardly surprising.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

Isn't the issue what the manager actually does - given the (until recently) structure, the DoF would have been responsible for player recruitment.

Clement and Gomes are therefore tasked with getting the best with what they have, via coaching, team tactics and player motivation.

Seems to me that the key differentiator is Gomes seems to know how to communicate and motivate a team.

There's a fair bit of anecdotal evidence that PC struggled in this area (see YK interview on TTE, various Twitter feuds...)

If this turns out to be the case, with a half decent squad, a confident a motivated team and some luck, who knows where it could take us

[Snowflake Royal]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

It's interesting though that on one hand people are raving about how much difference the loanees have made and on the other hand saying Clement was too shit to have done any better.

I rather think that if Clement had got the same loanees (certainly possible) we'd have continued to improve under him (there was clear if slight improvement).

Of course, Gomes has done brilliantly, so I very much doubt we'd have got as many good results as recently, but I also don't think we'd have had that five game collapse like we did under Marshall and before Gomes could effect change.

In fact, as Denver likes to bring up regularly people (me included) said that no one would do better than Clement with the same squad... clearly Gomes has done very well, but until he could start bringing in the loanees his record was P3, W0, D1, L2, F1, A5, GD -4, Pts 1, ppg 0.33... which is obviously too few to make a proper sample and unfair to judge someone so early, but it does suggest that it was accurate that not much more than Clement managed could be achieved with that group of players. Especially adding in the three Marshall results that make it
P6, W0, D2, L4, F2, A9, GD -7, Pts 2, Ppg 0.33


We'll never know if Clement would have got the same loanees, or got as much out of them or improved performances from others. And we're happy with Gomes. But I do think Clement is dismissed too easily and without much evidence.

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Yes, although the thought behind almost all the summer signings was good. And we know managers these days are rarely the ones really driving the detail of those signings. We also know that Gourlay was an absolute shambles...

As Hound said, what could Clement have done with a January backed by Howe... what would the summer signings have been like with Howe not Gourlay?

I just think that Clement is unnecessarily demonised. No doubt Gomes is good and we're in a better place. But like Adkins, Clement got shafted by the management structure in place and that's not really reflected in attitudes towards him from most our fans.


Anyway, it just occurred to me that for all the undeniable improvement we've had under Gomes, we were actually worse without Clement whilst the squad was unchanged. Which I thought was interesting*

[Zip]

It's interesting though that on one hand people are raving about how much difference the loanees have made and on the other hand saying Clement was too shit to have done any better.

I rather think that if Clement had got the same loanees (certainly possible) we'd have continued to improve under him (there was clear if slight improvement).

Of course, Gomes has done brilliantly, so I very much doubt we'd have got as many good results as recently, but I also don't think we'd have had that five game collapse like we did under Marshall and before Gomes could effect change.

In fact, as Denver likes to bring up regularly people (me included) said that no one would do better than Clement with the same squad... clearly Gomes has done very well, but until he could start bringing in the loanees his record was P3, W0, D1, L2, F1, A5, GD -4, Pts 1, ppg 0.33... which is obviously too few to make a proper sample and unfair to judge someone so early, but it does suggest that it was accurate that not much more than Clement managed could be achieved with that group of players. Especially adding in the three Marshall results that make it
P6, W0, D2, L4, F2, A9, GD -7, Pts 2, Ppg 0.33


We'll never know if Clement would have got the same loanees, or got as much out of them or improved performances from others. And we're happy with Gomes. But I do think Clement is dismissed too easily and without much evidence.

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Yes, although the thought behind almost all the summer signings was good. And we know managers these days are rarely the ones really driving the detail of those signings. We also know that Gourlay was an absolute shambles...

As Hound said, what could Clement have done with a January backed by Howe... what would the summer signings have been like with Howe not Gourlay?

I just think that Clement is unnecessarily demonised. No doubt Gomes is good and we're in a better place. But like Adkins, Clement got shafted by the management structure in place and that's not really reflected in attitudes towards him from most our fans.


Anyway, it just occurred to me that for all the undeniable improvement we've had under Gomes, we were actually worse without Clement whilst the squad was unchanged. Which I thought was interesting*

Clement wasn’t demonised though. A lot of us liked him and hoped he could turn it around. Fully agree with the Gourlay point. He did Clement no favours but what was the first thing Howe did? He got rid of Clement.
Adkins absolutely got shafted.

[Lower West]

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Gomes hasn't signed anybody yet. Strip the 6 loanees out of the squad plus the payers that are likely to leave. There's a major rebuilding job to be done in the summer. Perhaps Gomes buys won't work out either. Neither will there be huge suns of money available. Then we'll be far from having an established side. No guarantees that next season is going to be an easy ride of mid table mediocrity.

[Snowflake Royal]

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Yes, although the thought behind almost all the summer signings was good. And we know managers these days are rarely the ones really driving the detail of those signings. We also know that Gourlay was an absolute shambles...

As Hound said, what could Clement have done with a January backed by Howe... what would the summer signings have been like with Howe not Gourlay?

I just think that Clement is unnecessarily demonised. No doubt Gomes is good and we're in a better place. But like Adkins, Clement got shafted by the management structure in place and that's not really reflected in attitudes towards him from most our fans.


Anyway, it just occurred to me that for all the undeniable improvement we've had under Gomes, we were actually worse without Clement whilst the squad was unchanged. Which I thought was interesting*

Clement wasn’t demonised though. A lot of us liked him and hoped he could turn it around. Fully agree with the Gourlay point. He did Clement no favours but what was the first thing Howe did? He got rid of Clement.
Adkins absolutely got shafted.

Yeah, I can understand Howe's clean sweep approach, and it's working so far. And I know a fair few of us liked Clement, i just think he's got more than his fair share of excessive critics.

Hey ho.

[Hound]

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Gomes hasn't signed anybody yet. Strip the 6 loanees out of the squad plus the payers that are likely to leave. There's a major rebuilding job to be done in the summer. Perhaps Gomes buys won't work out either. Neither will there be huge suns of money available. Then we'll be far from having an established side. No guarantees that next season is going to be an easy ride of mid table mediocrity.

But the recruitment team has signed players. It’s the same group. Gomes will be another voice to input but the loan players from Jan will very much be the type of player going forward you’d think

I do think if we stay up we’ll be pretty optimistic for the new season. Mid table at worst

[Lower West]

I have to disagree Ian. Just look at the summer 2018 signings under Clement. They were awful. It’s more than that though. Gomes has managed to integrate these loanees into the squad. They have bought into Gomes and what he is doing. The existing players have done so too and Moore has confirmed this to be so.

Gomes hasn't signed anybody yet. Strip the 6 loanees out of the squad plus the payers that are likely to leave. There's a major rebuilding job to be done in the summer. Perhaps Gomes buys won't work out either. Neither will there be huge suns of money available. Then we'll be far from having an established side. No guarantees that next season is going to be an easy ride of mid table mediocrity.

But the recruitment team has signed players. It’s the same group. Gomes will be another voice to input but the loan players from Jan will very much be the type of player going forward you’d think

I do think if we stay up we’ll be pretty optimistic for the new season. Mid table at worst

Players signed don't work out for a whole variety of reasons. Nothing to do with their technical ability either. If we resort to season long loans. Then Gomes & Co will have shown themselves to be a positive influence on players development. Hopefully putting us in good stead for players from the top premiership academies. I'm expecting greater reliance on home grown players filling the bench.

[Hound]

Yep agree

[paultheroyal]

Under Clement we couldn’t average more than a point per game. After a slow start Gomes has done brilliantly. In our last 17 games we have picked up 25 points. We would not have been in this position had Clement remained in charge.

The only slight criticism I can think of is that we are taking the lead in the vast majority of matches under Gomes but have been pegged back in a fair few of them. So something to work on and if that can be improved this team can fly under him.

It's interesting though that on one hand people are raving about how much difference the loanees have made and on the other hand saying Clement was too shit to have done any better.

I rather think that if Clement had got the same loanees (certainly possible) we'd have continued to improve under him (there was clear if slight improvement).

Of course, Gomes has done brilliantly, so I very much doubt we'd have got as many good results as recently, but I also don't think we'd have had that five game collapse like we did under Marshall and before Gomes could effect ochange.

In fact, as Denver likes to bring up regularly people (me included) said that no one would do better than Clement with the same squad... clearly Gomes has done very well, but until he could start bringing in the loanees his record was P3, W0, D1, L2, F1, A5, GD -4, Pts 1, ppg 0.33... which is obviously too few to make a proper sample and unfair to judge someone so early, but it does suggest that it was accurate that not much more than Clement managed could be achieved with that group of players. Especially adding in the three Marshall results that make it
P6, W0, D2, L4, F2, A9, GD -7, Pts 2, Ppg 0.33


We'll never know if Clement would have got the same loanees, or got as much out of them or improved performances from others. And we're happy with Gomes. But I do think Clement is dismissed too easily and without much evidence.

Sound bites coming out from the players is all you need to know about Clement. He was shit, tactically inept and failed to manage individuals, resulting in poor performances.

[sandman]

Personally thought Kermorgant sounded like a spoiled twat in his interview. Nowhere near as genuine as Moore was.

Gomes greatest weapon is the way he speaks. He has a romantic turn of phrase that can easily charm people and means he can get away with some things that others may not.

An example is when he says "our process". It's something he says a lot, especially after a loss, but no one really picks up on it as they might if he was using phrases like "fine margins" as someone who grew up with English as their first language.

[Ranty McRantface]

You want evidence? Well, I'd certainly give some weight to what Liam Moore has to say on the issue: Clement struggling to get his ideas across, Gomes being clearer in his instructions and his ability to ship out the negative influences.

Also, Gomes just seems a more positive personality, a much better motivator and on the face of it, has invested so much more emotionally than Clement ever did.

I can imagine that having a big influence on how well the players are performing.

It was pretty clear Clement had already identified much the same players to shift, but you can't do it in November. Undoubtedly Gomes has done better with the likes of Barrow and Swift, but also regressed for a while with Meite and has binned Kelly entirely.

I come back to the point though, that it's widely hailed on here that the loanees have changed our season far more than any of the (clear) improvements in the squad Gomes inherited.

Completely agree Gomes is much more upbeat and engaging. But this is his dream opportunity, so hardly surprising.

What. Clement had the summer to get rid of the negative dross but chose to invest in experience. Those investments (except Yiadom) have been shite or hardly played. If Liam Moore is saying Gomes can get his instructions across better then I doubt it would bode well for future team performances if they don't fully know what to do. Sorry, but when you're captain and best player comes out to tell you just how much better Gomes is, which is backed up by results, then I see no reason to believe Clement would have turned things around.

[Snowflake Royal]

Technically McShane is captain still.

As for getting rid of the dross, plenty of it is still here, several of those gone either nearly went in the summer or were injured so couldn't go anywhere.

We were showing small results improvements under Clement. That's just a fact. It's in the numbers.