BFTG - Ipshit H

[NewCorkSeth]

Also, seeing just 15 wins in 62 games over almost 15 months, makes it utterly clear how little the fault is Clement’s

What's the breakdown of that?

Clement owns 25 league games of the 63 played since the start of last season.

In those 25 games Reading are averaging a whopping 0.96 ppg and an average of 1.12 goals scored v 1.68 goals conceded per game

How does that compare to Stam's 38 game season?

That, I would love to know. Snowy? You got answers?

[Snowball]

Well, first, Stam "inherited a side" that had just finished third

Clement inherited a side that had plummeted and looked odds-on for relegation

Stam's 38 games yielded 39 points=39/38 which is 1.026 ppg

But that doesn't tell the true story

The 18 games up to his sacking yielded just 9 points at half a point a game, 11 defeats, 6 draws, ONE win

If you add the 19th game (a draw) you discover


19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

It is hardly fair to compare Clement to the season we were third, or the first 19 games last season.

Clearly the team had imploded/something was seriously wrong by the time Stam was sacked

Clement took over a side that had averaged 0.53 ppg for the previous 19 games

That side managed exactly 1.0 ppg in the eight-game run-in

[BarryWhiteRFC]

Well, first, Stam "inherited a side" that had just finished third

Clement inherited a side that had plummeted and looked odds-on for relegation

Stam's 38 games yielded 39 points=39/38 which is 1.026 ppg

But that doesn't tell the true story

The 18 games up to his sacking yielded just 9 points at half a point a game, 11 defeats, 6 draws, ONE win

If you add the 19th game (a draw) you discover


19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

It is hardly fair to compare Clement to the season we were third, or the first 19 games last season.

Clearly the team had imploded/something was seriously wrong by the time Stam was sacked

Clement took over a side that had averaged 0.53 ppg for the previous 19 games

That side managed exactly 1.0 ppg in the eight-game run-in

I'd like to say I really enjoy reading Snowballs stats. I don't take them as gospel providing the whole truth, but it gives me another view. I say don't listen to the haters and just carry on doing what you're doing. Some people, myself included, get some insight perusing them (just try to stay away from insulting people, make stat love, not stat war).

[NewCorkSeth]

Well, first, Stam "inherited a side" that had just finished third

Clement inherited a side that had plummeted and looked odds-on for relegation

Stam's 38 games yielded 39 points=39/38 which is 1.026 ppg

But that doesn't tell the true story

The 18 games up to his sacking yielded just 9 points at half a point a game, 11 defeats, 6 draws, ONE win

If you add the 19th game (a draw) you discover


19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

It is hardly fair to compare Clement to the season we were third, or the first 19 games last season.

Clearly the team had imploded/something was seriously wrong by the time Stam was sacked

Clement took over a side that had averaged 0.53 ppg for the previous 19 games

That side managed exactly 1.0 ppg in the eight-game run-in

Am I being thick here or was Stams total season 1ppg?

Edit: sorry I'm shit at mental math and you even said what his total ppg was.

[Sutekh]

Well, first, Stam "inherited a side" that had just finished third

Clement inherited a side that had plummeted and looked odds-on for relegation

Stam's 38 games yielded 39 points=39/38 which is 1.026 ppg

But that doesn't tell the true story

The 18 games up to his sacking yielded just 9 points at half a point a game, 11 defeats, 6 draws, ONE win

If you add the 19th game (a draw) you discover


19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

It is hardly fair to compare Clement to the season we were third, or the first 19 games last season.

Clearly the team had imploded/something was seriously wrong by the time Stam was sacked

Clement took over a side that had averaged 0.53 ppg for the previous 19 games

That side managed exactly 1.0 ppg in the eight-game run-in

I'd like to say I really enjoy reading Snowballs stats. I don't take them as gospel providing the whole truth, but it gives me another view. I say don't listen to the haters and just carry on doing what you're doing. Some people, myself included, get some insight perusing them (just try to stay away from insulting people, make stat love, not stat war).

With hindsight you can probably say it all started almost a year ago with the second half performance at home to Cardiff when Reading threw away 2 point unnecessarily, after that it just collapsed into the long trail of generally inept performances and dreadful results that PC is still trying to avert even now.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Well, first, Stam "inherited a side" that had just finished third

Clement inherited a side that had plummeted and looked odds-on for relegation

Stam's 38 games yielded 39 points=39/38 which is 1.026 ppg

But that doesn't tell the true story

The 18 games up to his sacking yielded just 9 points at half a point a game, 11 defeats, 6 draws, ONE win

If you add the 19th game (a draw) you discover


19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

It is hardly fair to compare Clement to the season we were third, or the first 19 games last season.

Clearly the team had imploded/something was seriously wrong by the time Stam was sacked

Clement took over a side that had averaged 0.53 ppg for the previous 19 games

That side managed exactly 1.0 ppg in the eight-game run-in

I'd like to say I really enjoy reading Snowballs stats. I don't take them as gospel providing the whole truth, but it gives me another view. I say don't listen to the haters and just carry on doing what you're doing. Some people, myself included, get some insight perusing them (just try to stay away from insulting people, make stat love, not stat war).

With hindsight you can probably say it all started almost a year ago with the second half performance at home to Cardiff when Reading threw away 2 point unnecessarily, after that it just collapsed into the long trail of generally inept performances and dreadful results that PC is still trying to avert even now.

Yep. We were above Fulham (or would've gone above them with a win) at the time, and on a good run. Everything went to shit after that. It's all Lee Tomlin's fault.

[Hound]

Yeah it’s weird how much that Cardiff equaliser seemed to change things. We played well for 80 mins in that game and looked like we might even make a bit of a push for the POs

I actually didn’t realise we had as many points as that after 19 games, and that without a decent striker (Bod on and off)

Complete collapse after that

[Snowball]

With hindsight you can probably say it all started almost a year ago with the second half performance at home to Cardiff when Reading threw away 2 point unnecessarily, after that it just collapsed into the long trail of generally inept performances and dreadful results that PC is still trying to avert even now.

Not arguing whether this is right or wrong, but surely there must have been other factors?

Do sides really go "half a season" looking like they might make the Play-Offs (70) then play so badly second half that they are the worst performing club in the league?

(In the above I know it's 2 x 19 game batches, not 2 x 23 but the principle still applies)

How fragile and pathetic must the squad be if dropping two points can "cause" a run of 10 points in 19 games?

[Snowflake Royal]

Fine margins innit. We had a squad full of vulnerabilities and even when we finished third games were usually won by fine margins. Took very little to tip us into failing to win points and once there, withno Kermie to save us, confidence fell apart.

Performance is so strongly linked to belief, confidence and happiness.

[Forbury Lion]

With hindsight you can probably say it all started almost a year ago with the second half performance at home to Cardiff when Reading threw away 2 point unnecessarily, after that it just collapsed into the long trail of generally inept performances and dreadful results that PC is still trying to avert even now.

Not arguing whether this is right or wrong, but surely there must have been other factors?

Do sides really go "half a season" looking like they might make the Play-Offs (70) then play so badly second half that they are the worst performing club in the league?

(In the above I know it's 2 x 19 game batches, not 2 x 23 but the principle still applies)

How fragile and pathetic must the squad be if dropping two points can "cause" a run of 10 points in 19 games?

Maybe the managers inability to motivate the players into bouncing back was a factor?

[Forbury Lion]

19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

Good stats.
Stam inherited a good side and made them into a crap side.
Clement inherited a crap side and has made them into a less crap side. I dare say Clement would have had a much better start to his Reading career if he had inherited the side Stam started with and had the same funds available to spend

[NewCorkSeth]

19 Games P19 W8 D5 L06 = 29 points @= 1.53 points a game, equivalent of a 70-point season FIRST 19
19 Games P19 W1 D7 L11 = 10 points @= 0.53 points a game, equivalent of a 24-point season LAST 19

Good stats.
Stam inherited a good side and made them into a crap side.
Clement inherited a crap side and has made them into a less crap side. I dare say Clement would have had a much better start to his Reading career if he had inherited the side Stam started with and had the same funds available to spend

What? Stam inherited a side that finished 17th?

[Hound]

Stam inherited a pretty atrocious side tbh. The had to sell 2 of its better players immediately

The side’s collapse was almost as baffling as his own inability to do something about it

[NewCorkSeth]

Stam inherited a pretty atrocious side tbh. The had to sell 2 of its better players immediately

The side’s collapse was almost as baffling as his own inability to do something about it

I don't think the collapse was that baffling. He didn't have anything in his back pocket tactically speaking and had no idea, it seems, how to lift the teams morale. He was just too inexperienced in the end and the championship is a tough league to crack. Still deserves every credit for what he achieved and tried to introduce.

[Snowball]

Stam inherited a pretty atrocious side tbh. The had to sell 2 of its better players immediately

The side’s collapse was almost as baffling as his own inability to do something about it

Atrocious enough to finish third and get 0-0 at Wembley in the PO Final?

I always felt it was a "false third" but even if that WAS a reasonable view
the side had to be high mid-table, surely?

[Hendo]

With hindsight you can probably say it all started almost a year ago with the second half performance at home to Cardiff when Reading threw away 2 point unnecessarily, after that it just collapsed into the long trail of generally inept performances and dreadful results that PC is still trying to avert even now.

Not arguing whether this is right or wrong, but surely there must have been other factors?

Do sides really go "half a season" looking like they might make the Play-Offs (70) then play so badly second half that they are the worst performing club in the league?

(In the above I know it's 2 x 19 game batches, not 2 x 23 but the principle still applies)

How fragile and pathetic must the squad be if dropping two points can "cause" a run of 10 points in 19 games?

Maybe the managers inability to motivate the players into bouncing back was a factor?

Not to quite the same degree but in Coppell's last season we had an absolute shocker at home in the second half of that season.

[NewCorkSeth]

Stam inherited a pretty atrocious side tbh. The had to sell 2 of its better players immediately

The side’s collapse was almost as baffling as his own inability to do something about it

Atrocious enough to finish third and get 0-0 at Wembley in the PO Final?

I always felt it was a "false third" but even if that WAS a reasonable view
the side had to be high mid-table, surely?

They finished 3rd in part due to his influence, certain new signings and his tactics. I don't think many managers appointed at the same time in a parallel universe would have achieved similar results.

[Snowflake Royal]

Stam did a decent job first season, with decent signings and massively benefited from McDermott's signing of Kermorgant.

He took over a side that had been plagued by useless loanees who didn't give a toss and built something around the solid core. But his side was always incredibly fragile and vulnerable.

He also had the same issue as Rodgers, he had an ethos and he wasn't prepared to compromise it, and he wasn't capable of communicating it to limited players low on form and confidence.

The side Clement inherited was much more damaged and less capable of recovery than Stam. He couldn't just wave good bye to most of the problem players because they were loanees and build around a solid core.

Clement had no midfield spine, oxf*rd all upfront and one fit proper full back and piss all on the wings except Barrow.

Stam's issues were less widespread.

[NewCorkSeth]

Stam did a decent job first season, with decent signings and massively benefited from McDermott's signing of Kermorgant.

He took over a side that had been plagued by useless loanees who didn't give a toss and built something around the solid core. But his side was always incredibly fragile and vulnerable.

He also had the same issue as Rodgers, he had an ethos and he wasn't prepared to compromise it, and he wasn't capable of communicating it to limited players low on form and confidence.

The side Clement inherited was much more damaged and less capable of recovery than Stam. He couldn't just wave good bye to most of the problem players because they were loanees and build around a solid core.

Clement had no midfield spine, oxf*rd all upfront and one fit proper full back and piss all on the wings except Barrow.

Stam's issues were less widespread.

Just one note: Stam did benefit from the signing of Kermorgant but he certainly got the most out of him. We had all written Kermie off after his games under McDermott.

[Lower West]

Atrocious enough to finish third and get 0-0 at Wembley in the PO Final?

Neither semi final or the final suggested that the team had any calibre. Remind me how many chances we created and goals were scored in 270 minutes of football.