New embargo incoming

[Greatwesternline]

Also important to remember that under Pauno we were top of the league after 10 games and had a squad that should have been well capable of sealing promotion.

Had that happened....i suspect Dai would have thrown a lot more money at a PL starting 11, and we would all be singing his praises.

Its funny how things turn out. The night Swift came back from injury and we pummelled Bournemouth 3-1 (last minute consolation for them) i thought, we are going to go up automatically.

Swift got injured again shortly after, Joao went off the boil, missed an open goal, and then really went off the boil. And the club has been falling every since.

[Brogue]

.

[Stranded]

PAYE gets paid on the 22nd of each month. Given yesterday was the 22nd, its been at least a month since Reading didnt pay their PAYE.

HMRC wouldnt have told the EFL about a late payment yesterday, they would have waited till the day after to see if funds had cleared i.e. today.

Therefore Reading's infraction relates, at the very best, to May's PAYE cut off, which is based on April's monthly wages.

Soooo...anyone who thinks this might have been a mistake, read this and understand it: For 31 days and counting now, Reading has not paid its PAYE.

Looking at Regulation 17 - it suggests that that is up to the club to inform the EFL that the payment has been made. If the club is in debt to the HRMC for 30 day in a 12 month period, the club will not be allowed to spend a penny on player for the next 3 windows. Not saying that limit has been breached but if so, then we will not be able to pay a fee until Jan '25 at the very earliest.

[Greatwesternline]

Slight amendment to the charge - now Regulation 17: HMRC Reporting.

This is actually good news. Its possible they've missed the deadline for reporting real time information employer payment summary which falls on the 19th of the month. Would be a bit surprised at HMRC being that quick though.

But either way, not reporting is better than not paying, obviously.

[WestYorksRoyal]

Slight amendment to the charge - now Regulation 17: HMRC Reporting.

Significant tweak. Reporting issues not in the same league as failing to pay PAYE.

[Stranded]

Here is what we have broken:

The club are obligated to tell the league within 2 working days of the default - we will remain in embargo until any debt is cleared with HMRC - signings will need to be approved by the EFL and cannot be for a fee.

If it is HMRC who have advised the EFL, then we will be subject to further penalty decided by the independent committee.

So hopefully, the club have owned up and are working to sort it

17 HMRC REPORTING

17.1 Current HMRC Debt. Any Club which has not within 28 (twenty-eight) days of the relevant Due Date paid to HMRC the amounts due to be paid to HMRC to discharge:

17.1.1 the Club’s full liability for PAYE & NIC due in respect of any and all employees or former employees of the Club for the immediately preceding payment period; and/or

17.1.2 the Club’s full liability for PAYE & NIC which becomes due as a result of an assessment issued by HMRC, subject to clause 17.8 below,

(each a ‘Default Event’) shall report the Default Event to The League within 2 working days of the Default Event.

17.2 Reporting Default Events. When a Club reports a Default Event to The League it shall at the same time provide to The League details of any and all amounts due to HMRC from the Club in respect of PAYE & NIC, together with the periods to which they relate.

17 .3 Consequences of a Default Event. Without prejudice to the general position (pursuant to Regulation 44 .4) that all registrations must be approved by The League and subject to Regulation 17.3A, a Club which is subject to a Default Event shall be subject to a registration embargo such that it shall not be permitted to register any Player with that Club without the prior written consent of The League for the period that the Club is subject to a Default Event.

17.3A Regulation 17.3 will not apply where a Club suffers a Default Event due to the failure to discharge a COVID PAYE Liability and has entered into a Time to Pay Agreement and is compliant with the terms of that Time To Pay Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where a Club defaults on the terms of a Time to Pay Agreement, and such default results in all outstanding amounts becoming due to HMRC immediately, the Club shall remain subject to a Default Event until such time as the outstanding amounts are paid or included within any other Time to Pay Agreement.

17.4 Failure to Notify a Default Event. A Club which fails to report a Default Event shall be guilty of misconduct and shall be referred to a Disciplinary Commission in accordance with Section 7 of these Regulations.

17.5 Provision of Authority. Each Club shall provide to The League, not later than 31 May prior to the commencement of a Season, (and in any event within seven days of any request for a further authority from The League), an original, irrevocable authority (which shall not be time constrained) in the form prescribed by The League and signed by a director and the company secretary of the Club, addressed to HMRC authorising HMRC to provide to The League information relating to amounts of PAYE & NIC payable, paid and overdue from the Club to HMRC from time to time including, by way of example and without limitation, the amount of Arrears (if any), the existence of and current position in respect of any Time to Pay Agreement and if a Club suffers a Default Event (‘Authority’). The League shall be entitled to forward the Authority to HMRC without having to seek the consent of the Club.

17.6 The Board shall have the power to suspend any Club which, not later than 31 May prior to the Commencement of the following Season (including, for the avoidance of doubt, those Clubs entering The League by way of promotion from the National League or relegation from the Premier League for the following Season) or within seven days of a request, fails to provide to The League the Authority in the required form. A suspended Club shall not play in:

17.6.1 any League Match;

17.6.2 any Football Association Cup Match;

17.6.3 any EFL Cup Match;

17.6.4 any EFL Trophy Match; and/or

17.6.5 any other match conducted or controlled by The League and in which it would otherwise be eligible to compete.

17.7 For the purposes of the League Competition, the Board shall have the power to determine how the cancellation of a League Match caused by the suspension of one of the Clubs, which should have participated in it, shall be treated.

17.8 Disputed Amounts. Any amounts which HMRC claims to be due to it, for example by way of an assessment, but which have been formally contested by the Club shall not be considered as due to HMRC for the purposes of this Regulation 17 until such time as a final determination is made on HMRC’s claim.

17.9 Information provided by a Club and/or HMRC in relation to any Arrears shall only be made available to senior members of The League’s staff and the independent Chairman (as described in Article 17.1.1) and shall not be disclosed to the Board generally, provided always that The League shall be entitled to report the happening of a Default Event to the Board for the purposes of enforcing Regulation 17.3 (Consequences of a Default Event).

[Royal_jimmy]

Many clubs have been through these situations and survived... the majority did, in fact.

We now are actually starting to see some concrete things wrong from reliable sources rather than people wetting the bed over things taking a bit of time, lack of statements no one should be looking for anyway and some empty twitter rumours.

There's still no reason for the hystrionics though. Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

I wanted Dai out a year ago, but I know what you mean!

[Royal_jimmy]

Many clubs have been through these situations and survived... the majority did, in fact.

We now are actually starting to see some concrete things wrong from reliable sources rather than people wetting the bed over things taking a bit of time, lack of statements no one should be looking for anyway and some empty twitter rumours.

There's still no reason for the hystrionics though. Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Moment of maximum risk is also moment of opportunity. If he's had enough, hopefully there is a suitable buyer out there. But of course, it could be another crook, or worse yet it could all fall through.

Even if we find a good, competent, well intentioned, wealthy buyer (I.e., best outcome), events of this summer + administration could mean a hefty points deduction and rebuilding from L2. But I'd take that outcome right now to be honest.

Me too, rather L2 if it means we still have a club. We'll bounce back if we drop there

[Lower West]

I wanted Dai out a year ago, but I know what you mean!

Some of us saw the writing on the wall long before....... viewing the football club through a business lens rather than sporting one provided a very different perspective.

[Hound]

Tbh would still like to see something come out of the club before deciding we’ll be in admin/relegated etc

There are clearly cash flow issues. Whether this is administrative (obvs still appalling) or an inability or refusal to pay is entirely different

Couple of days ago it was said that Selles is going to join.

Dai is a useless incompetent clown but one this he has always done is funded the team. It’s quite a big jump from that to suddenly going awol. Not saying that hasn’t happened mind you

[Orion1871]

Here is what we have broken:

The club are obligated to tell the league within 2 working days of the default - we will remain in embargo until any debt is cleared with HMRC - signings will need to be approved by the EFL and cannot be for a fee.

If it is HMRC who have advised the EFL, then we will be subject to further penalty decided by the independent committee.

So hopefully, the club have owned up and are working to sort it

17 HMRC REPORTING

17.1 Current HMRC Debt. Any Club which has not within 28 (twenty-eight) days of the relevant Due Date paid to HMRC the amounts due to be paid to HMRC to discharge:

17.1.1 the Club’s full liability for PAYE & NIC due in respect of any and all employees or former employees of the Club for the immediately preceding payment period; and/or

17.1.2 the Club’s full liability for PAYE & NIC which becomes due as a result of an assessment issued by HMRC, subject to clause 17.8 below,

(each a ‘Default Event’) shall report the Default Event to The League within 2 working days of the Default Event.

17.2 Reporting Default Events. When a Club reports a Default Event to The League it shall at the same time provide to The League details of any and all amounts due to HMRC from the Club in respect of PAYE & NIC, together with the periods to which they relate.

17 .3 Consequences of a Default Event. Without prejudice to the general position (pursuant to Regulation 44 .4) that all registrations must be approved by The League and subject to Regulation 17.3A, a Club which is subject to a Default Event shall be subject to a registration embargo such that it shall not be permitted to register any Player with that Club without the prior written consent of The League for the period that the Club is subject to a Default Event.

17.3A Regulation 17.3 will not apply where a Club suffers a Default Event due to the failure to discharge a COVID PAYE Liability and has entered into a Time to Pay Agreement and is compliant with the terms of that Time To Pay Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, where a Club defaults on the terms of a Time to Pay Agreement, and such default results in all outstanding amounts becoming due to HMRC immediately, the Club shall remain subject to a Default Event until such time as the outstanding amounts are paid or included within any other Time to Pay Agreement.

17.4 Failure to Notify a Default Event. A Club which fails to report a Default Event shall be guilty of misconduct and shall be referred to a Disciplinary Commission in accordance with Section 7 of these Regulations.

17.5 Provision of Authority. Each Club shall provide to The League, not later than 31 May prior to the commencement of a Season, (and in any event within seven days of any request for a further authority from The League), an original, irrevocable authority (which shall not be time constrained) in the form prescribed by The League and signed by a director and the company secretary of the Club, addressed to HMRC authorising HMRC to provide to The League information relating to amounts of PAYE & NIC payable, paid and overdue from the Club to HMRC from time to time including, by way of example and without limitation, the amount of Arrears (if any), the existence of and current position in respect of any Time to Pay Agreement and if a Club suffers a Default Event (‘Authority’). The League shall be entitled to forward the Authority to HMRC without having to seek the consent of the Club.

17.6 The Board shall have the power to suspend any Club which, not later than 31 May prior to the Commencement of the following Season (including, for the avoidance of doubt, those Clubs entering The League by way of promotion from the National League or relegation from the Premier League for the following Season) or within seven days of a request, fails to provide to The League the Authority in the required form. A suspended Club shall not play in:

17.6.1 any League Match;

17.6.2 any Football Association Cup Match;

17.6.3 any EFL Cup Match;

17.6.4 any EFL Trophy Match; and/or

17.6.5 any other match conducted or controlled by The League and in which it would otherwise be eligible to compete.

17.7 For the purposes of the League Competition, the Board shall have the power to determine how the cancellation of a League Match caused by the suspension of one of the Clubs, which should have participated in it, shall be treated.

17.8 Disputed Amounts. Any amounts which HMRC claims to be due to it, for example by way of an assessment, but which have been formally contested by the Club shall not be considered as due to HMRC for the purposes of this Regulation 17 until such time as a final determination is made on HMRC’s claim.

17.9 Information provided by a Club and/or HMRC in relation to any Arrears shall only be made available to senior members of The League’s staff and the independent Chairman (as described in Article 17.1.1) and shall not be disclosed to the Board generally, provided always that The League shall be entitled to report the happening of a Default Event to the Board for the purposes of enforcing Regulation 17.3 (Consequences of a Default Event).

Please can they do us a favour and suspend us from the Pizza Trophy even if this is all sorted out.

[Snowflake Royal]

Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Yeah...like you were a lone voice raising concerns in a sea of happy voices.

Never said I was. But I've been getting dogs abuse for questioning him for years. So forgive me for being less than charitable to people only just waking up.

[Snowflake Royal]

Anger is now starting to turn to emotion. When is someone going to hold the EFL accountable? The Premier League had already told Dai to do one after failing their FAPPT, but then the EFL totally ignore the fact he'd owned to Football Club's already and both no longer exist due to his financial mismanagement. Perhaps all FAPPT's need to be conducted by a independant regulatory body and not the PL and EFL. Something has to be done soon, this can't keep happening to Clubs.

The FAPPT is not there to pick up on the shenanigans that we are seeing now. It's more about making sure he wasn't a massive paedo or got his money from ill-gotten gains. The EFL have done nothing wrong they are just applying the law to which every club has signed up to.

The EFL FAPPT clearly needs to change though. Providing evidence you have a significant amount of money behind you shouldn't be enough to buy a Football Club. Clearly the current 'test' is not fit for purpose!

On what legal basis are you saying the FL stop purchases?

[RoyalBlue]

The FAPPT is not there to pick up on the shenanigans that we are seeing now. It's more about making sure he wasn't a massive paedo or got his money from ill-gotten gains. The EFL have done nothing wrong they are just applying the law to which every club has signed up to.

The EFL FAPPT clearly needs to change though. Providing evidence you have a significant amount of money behind you shouldn't be enough to buy a Football Club. Clearly the current 'test' is not fit for purpose!

On what legal basis are you saying the FL stop purchases?

They are not required to allow teams to compete in their leagues and competitions. So not much incentive to buy a club if you're told they won't let it play in their competitions under your ownership.

[tmesis]

The EFL FAPPT clearly needs to change though. Providing evidence you have a significant amount of money behind you shouldn't be enough to buy a Football Club. Clearly the current 'test' is not fit for purpose!

On what legal basis are you saying the FL stop purchases?

They are not required to allow teams to compete in their leagues and competitions. So not much incentive to buy a club if you're told they won't let it play in their competitions under your ownership.

As the al-Jazeera expose around the dodgy people who brokered the Zingarevich takeover showed, the League's powers are limited because all these owners really need to do is threaten legal action, and the League pretty much have to give in. They don't have the financial clout to stop anything if it's not absolutely watertight.

[Sutekh]

Perhaps one thing that should be insisted on is that owners MUST be residenced in the UK for at least 6 months in every year and that owner checks become annual affairs like account audits.

[Hound]

Nice to see people are finally catching up with how shit an owner Dai is though. A few years slow, but hey ho.

Yeah...like you were a lone voice raising concerns in a sea of happy voices.

Never said I was. But I've been getting dogs abuse for questioning him for years. So forgive me for being less than charitable to people only just waking up.

Don’t think you were getting dogs abuse just because of that tbf

[WestYorksRoyal]

Perhaps one thing that should be insisted on is that owners MUST be residenced in the UK for at least 6 months in every year and that owner checks become annual affairs like account audits.

Is there a way football clubs can be treated like cultural assets? We'd need some sort of legislation. For example, you can't just tear down a listed property even if you own it. There should be laws that allows the authorities to create a compulsory sale order or something like that. These clubs have historic value in their communities and it's ridiculous that once a bad owner gets in there is nothing the regulators can do.

Chelsea and Abrahmovic was an extraordinary set of circumstances. Why not extend the power to do it for failing to pay wages etc. Would obviously be the nuclear option, but just knowing the threat was there would bring owners to heel.

[Elm Park Kid]

Perhaps one thing that should be insisted on is that owners MUST be residenced in the UK for at least 6 months in every year and that owner checks become annual affairs like account audits.

Is there a way football clubs can be treated like cultural assets? We'd need some sort of legislation. For example, you can't just tear down a listed property even if you own it. There should be laws that allows the authorities to create a compulsory sale order or something like that. These clubs have historic value in their communities and it's ridiculous that once a bad owner gets in there is nothing the regulators can do.

Chelsea and Abrahmovic was an extraordinary set of circumstances. Why not extend the power to do it for failing to pay wages etc. Would obviously be the nuclear option, but just knowing the threat was there would bring owners to heel.

There are plans to bring in an independent regulator for football who would have some powers to control the way that football clubs operate and increase safeguards against a bad owner.

But, at the end of the day governments are loathed to directly meddle too much in football. For one, the PL has be a fantastic success story overall, driven primarily by following commercial business practices. Two - FIFA bans governments from interfering too much in national football set ups. And three, it risk creating political time bombs if governments are see as responsible for the welfare of individual football clubs. MPs could lose their seats if they were seen to not interfere enough/in the right way.

The best thing to do in terms of safeguarding clubs would be the German approach of fan ownership. But then the German league has stagnated for decades, one club completely dominating and others being unable to raise the finances needed to compete. And they themselves are looking to move away from their existing model.

[Elm Park Kid]

Perhaps one thing that should be insisted on is that owners MUST be residenced in the UK for at least 6 months in every year and that owner checks become annual affairs like account audits.

I might be wrong, but I think that every club that has gone under in the UK had a British owner.