Foreigners for England

[papereyes]

Arteta-Cholmondely-Warner

[Hoop Blah]

...I'd say that a fluent English-speaking and honourary Liverpudlian Arteta qualifies more for England than James Harper does for Ghana.

Which is why Harper said no to playing for Ghana isn't it?

Just because the rule always it doesn't make it right.

The likes of Hargreaves are English through ancestry though, even if he was brought up elsewhere, so a totally different kettle of fish to Almuaia or Arteta.

Personally it would make supporting the England team less appealing if we included these 'mercenary' type players.

[TBM]

...I'd say that a fluent English-speaking and honourary Liverpudlian Arteta qualifies more for England than James Harper does for Ghana.

Which is why Harper said no to playing for Ghana isn't it?

Just because the rule always it doesn't make it right.

The likes of Hargreaves are English through ancestry though, even if he was brought up elsewhere, so a totally different kettle of fish to Almuaia or Arteta.

Personally it would make supporting the England team less appealing if we included these 'mercenary' type players.

and having a coach who can barely speak English is ok?

Personally i dont think it would matter who plays as its the team you are supporting, not the players.

[brendywendy]

do we really put so much store in imaginary boundary lines drawn on a map any more? or even blood ties?

if i have an irish grandparent but live in england all my life am i really irish, if i am the child of a british soldier who lives their whole life in germany can i not play for germany?

[Hoop Blah]

I'd rather see all countries employ their own coaching staff too to be honest.

The team should be made up of players from the country though. All these fake paddies and non-krauts etc just make a mockery of it in my book.

[papereyes]

if i am the child of a british soldier who lives their whole life in germany can i not play for germany?

A bit like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Hunt

for example?

(I thought both his parents were British but am now slightly educated)

EDIT - slight google and TA DA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Holtby
I knew there was one.

I also thought one of the States players had a similar background.

wrt the 'non-krauts', I actually think most of them are, well, German.

[Hoop Blah]

do we really put so much store in imaginary boundary lines drawn on a map any more? or even blood ties?

if i have an irish grandparent but live in england all my life am i really irish, if i am the child of a british soldier who lives their whole life in germany can i not play for germany?

Both of those are slightly different to a player moving here in the early or mid twenties then playing for England after they've been here for a few years.

If you lived you're whole life in Germany, ie since birth, then you'd be German by birth and well us upbringing so I wouldn't see that as strange at all.

The grandparent rule is a little bit of a tricky one as it depends on how you were brought up. I know plenty of 'Irish' and 'Scottish' through Grandparent links who have been brought up in very Irish and Scottish households and therefore don't see themselves as English (or not in a sporting sense). For those kind of situations I'd say it's fine and makes a lot of sense too.

[Hoop Blah]

wrt the 'non-krauts', I actually think most of them are, well, German.

I know, I was more answering it with the idea that they weren't (as that's the perception). I think most of them would pass my test of krautness if I had to judge their eligability.

[brendywendy]

so someone could have a german gran, a dutch grandad, a french nan, and a portuguese grandad, be born in sierra leone, and live most of their life in russia, and get to play for any one of those countries?
doesnt sound like much of a system

[Hoop Blah]

so someone could have a german gran, a dutch grandad, a french nan, and a portuguese grandad, be born in sierra leone, and live most of their life in russia, and get to play for any one of those countries?
doesnt sound like much of a system

Apart from the Russia part (I never agreed with most of their lives) I don't see why not, although I'm not in total agreement with the Grandparent rule, but it's the place to draw the line as it directly affects the parents 'breeding'.

[bakerlou]

English born and bred only?

Not sure that's alwasys been the case, but generally I'd much rather see the England team made up of 'genuine' Englishmen than assimilated foreigners whose only connection is that a club over here has employed them for long enough to be eligible.

John Barnes? Terry Butcher? Le Tiss? Le Saux?

[prostak]

Podolski, Klose and Trochowski are a very different kettle to Cacau.

My hunch was that all three came from families that were German before the 1930s/1940s.
They were certainly not naturalised relatively late in their careers.

I know Klose and Poldi are from Silesia, and I'm sure I don't need to educate you about the recent history of that state, papereyes. Had to look up Trochowski - he's from the Polish bit of Pomerania, though obviously national identity was a little blurred in that area, regardless of which city was ruling it at the time. In any case, he and Klose definitely seem to feel more German than Polish, and that's all I'm bothered about.
Poldi is a different case, though. I believe his mother wrote to the PZPN, begging them to take a look at her son who had been making an impact in FC Koln's youth teams. They rebuffed her request, explaining they had better options available. To judge that, consider this - Poland's main attacking hope in recent years has been Ebi Smolarek. Ebi scored one goal in all of 2009. Against San Marino. In a 10-0 win. Ebi is named after Eusebio.

Anyway - England should swallow their pride and give a game to anyone willing to join in with the mess of a national side. Given the problem you seem to have in persuading English-born players to turn out, surely you can't refuse someone who wants to go to the extent of changing nationality for the honour?

[papereyes]

so someone could have a german gran, a dutch grandad, a french nan, and a portuguese grandad, be born in sierra leone, and live most of their life in russia, and get to play for any one of those countries?
doesnt sound like much of a system

What else would you suggest?

[Royal With Cheese]

so someone could have a german gran, a dutch grandad, a french nan, and a portuguese grandad, be born in sierra leone, and live most of their life in russia, and get to play for any one of those countries?
doesnt sound like much of a system

What else would you suggest?

Rock paper scissors. That's what Jack Charlton used.

[cmonurz]

I'm of the same opinion on football as I am cricket. Ideally, for me, someone should be eligible to play for the country of their birth, or that of their parents, and no further back. That said, the rules iz the rules, and if we can 'assimilate' the likes of Arteta or Di Canio or Cudicini, and they want to play for England, and it would be of benefit to the national team, then we should go ahead and do it.

[Wax Jacket]

not that cut and dried though is it - say you're born in country A and your family moves to country B when you're aged one and it's all you know, you grow up a face-painted splastic and speak the language of country B better than you do of the one where you and your parents are born?

[cmonurz]

It has to be cut and dried for sport, or at least it should be. Otherwise where do you draw the line? What if the family doesn't move when the kid is 1, but when the kid is 5? But that child becomes equally 'splasticated'?

[soggy biscuit]

You are born in Jersey (meaning you choose your home nation), your mum is French, your dad is German, your grandparents are Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch & Russian, you spend your youth growing up in Argentina and have citizenship there but you go to live in Brazil for 5 years having never reprisented any country.

So in this situation you can choose from 12 countries?

[cmonurz]

That is, as I understand it, the current situation.

[soggy biscuit]

That is, as I understand it, the current situation.

Challenge, what scenario would you be able to choose from the most countries?

My guess would be mine above but swap one of them for somewhere like Guadalupe as that doubles up (Guadalupe or France). Being born on Jersey means you can also play for Gibralter so I guess that makes 14 countries.