Can England Win the Next World Cup?

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

I think if Soggy had actually watched the program, he'd get the point much better.


We pay a manager over £6m a year, we've thrown so much at the problem, yet there seems to be something rotten. This program did a pretty good job exploring and understanding those problems.

Just want to say it again though. I love you Jose...

[prostak]

Kev's a battering ram. He's got the highest number of fouls in the league, by some distance if memory serves, and his main job is to intimidate opposition defences while more talented players score. The reason for that high number of scoring chances created is down to Megson's style of play. Knock it long to the big man, who out-muscles his marker to flick it on for Elmander/Klasnic/Lee.
I hope this is the dawning of a tactical shift by England, playing like Meggo-era Bolton. I would LOL out loud, o yes I would.

[cmonurz]

Well to be fair to Bolton/Davies, if it works, it works. Peter Crouch is linking brilliantly with Van Der Vaart at Spurs, I think he has set up four of the Dutchman's goals with dinked headers across goal.

[prostak]

It didn't really work. That's why Megson got sacked.

[cmonurz]

Well the chances were created, it might have worked if it was Rooney or Defoe on the end of them, and not Jonathan Elmander.

[prostak]

Perhaps. I'm just not convinced Davies is the 'missing piece' for the English. He's probably better than Heskey at that role, agreed. But if Bolton consider themselves above that sort of anti-football, I find it amusing that Capello has decided that's the best he can aim for with the players at his disposal.

O, and it's Johan. He's not that bad anymore, either.

[papereyes]

Didn't see this but the programme title made me lol. When people realise that the EPL is not the best league, England is no where near the best team and players like Frank Lampard not the best in the world then expectations will come down to realistic levels.

I wonder if Croatia would have a programme on with the same name.

Croatia will also never win the World Cup, but have a population approaching 12 times smaller than that of England.

I read Soccernomics over my stay here and there's some interesting manipulations of the stats. Like England actually relatively overperform compared to their relative size and economy - we just forget that places like Germany are both bigger and richer. And one I've argued against in the past - that the qualifications for 'bad' and 'good' final tournaments are almost the same.

Someone mentioned Spain - I would imagine that the relative isolation of the Franco regime would also have played against them (and Portugal to some extent).

[papereyes]

Perhaps. I'm just not convinced Davies is the 'missing piece' for the English. He's probably better than Heskey at that role, agreed. But if Bolton consider themselves above that sort of anti-football, I find it amusing that Capello has decided that's the best he can aim for with the players at his disposal.

I'm not sure playing increasingly 'English' football will turn around several decades of real success playing 'English' football.

[Seal]

I thought it was really poorly executed and argued actually. It's easy to make a programme like that look good when you chuck in some behind the scenes footage, an interview with Mourinho plus talking heads from various other big names.

They listed loads of potential challenges facing England - lack of winter break, youth development, over competitive coaching etc etc, but didn't really evaluate the importance of each one, or consider how they were connected. Then at the end of the programme Lineker summed up by saying it was all about the "yoof", and that's why we don't win.

Really Gary? Seemed like a really lazy argument to me, not based on all the facts that had just been presented to you. Didn't everyone just say that a winter break was key? That this was the best generation of players in a long time and they still couldn't do it. How is the next generation going to win the world cup if they still arrived burnt out and carrying injuries because we refuse to change are structure?

How if the answer is youth - what's your solution? You cite the Barcelona example (which is a private club) and then talk to Trevor Brooking who runs the FA programme. So who's responsibility is it? The Clubs? The FA? Did Barca win Spain the World Cup or was it the Spanish FA's youth development programme.

Classic flaky TV in my book. Poor.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Didn't see this but the programme title made me lol. When people realise that the EPL is not the best league, England is no where near the best team and players like Frank Lampard not the best in the world then expectations will come down to realistic levels.

I wonder if Croatia would have a programme on with the same name.

Croatia will also never win the World Cup, but have a population approaching 12 times smaller than that of England.

I read Soccernomics over my stay here and there's some interesting manipulations of the stats. Like England actually relatively overperform compared to their relative size and economy - we just forget that places like Germany are both bigger and richer.

When Germany was just "West Germany" the population wasn't much bigger than England.

The problem isn't just about the number of wins. It's just that 66 seems more of a "blip", helped by home advantage, that makes our record look more respectable than it is.

How many times have we made it to a semi-final in a major tourament after all?

The answer is just 4, and two of those were as hosts.

Compare that to Portugal (5), France (9), Spain (5), Italy (10), Germany (19), Holland (10) and the remarkable thing isn't that we've only won one world cup. It's that we even managed the one.

We need to stop making excuses for our failure. Yes a winter break etc would help, but the most basic reason why we struggle to do better isn't down to bad managers or being tired, it's that we just aren't good enough.

[PlasticRoyale]

Kev's a battering ram. He's got the highest number of fouls in the league, by some distance if memory serves, and his main job is to intimidate opposition defences while more talented players score. The reason for that high number of scoring chances created is down to Megson's style of play. Knock it long to the big man, who out-muscles his marker to flick it on for Elmander/Klasnic/Lee.
I hope this is the dawning of a tactical shift by England, playing like Meggo-era Bolton. I would LOL out loud, o yes I would.

I heard on the radio that he has collected more yellow cards than goals

[Archie's penalty]

TTIUWP(olls).

[PEARCEY]

I think the next WC Finals are in Brazil. If so England haven't a hope in hell.

[sheshnu]

Compare that to Portugal (5), France (9), Spain (5), Italy (10), Germany (19), Holland (10) and the remarkable thing isn't that we've only won one world cup. It's that we even managed the one.

The real winners here are Portugal and Netherlands, they are tiny compared to the countries who win these international tournaments regularly. I realise it's not just a question of population size, but Brazil is massive compared to the rest of the football-playing world which probably contributes to their overall success.

Do you think that France's strength at the turn of the century was a 'blip'? I reckon they had a pretty good team then, just as England did in the late 60s. And Spain have a decent side now...

Can England win the next World Cup? Who cares?! They haven't won it in my life time and maybe won't do so, but to football fans I don't think that really matters at all. In my experience it is more the non-football fans in this country who are desperate for 'us' to win the World Cup whenever it comes around.

England are contenders though which is why even the harshest cynic could never rule them out of winning a major competition.

[cmonurz]

Kev's a battering ram. He's got the highest number of fouls in the league, by some distance if memory serves, and his main job is to intimidate opposition defences while more talented players score. The reason for that high number of scoring chances created is down to Megson's style of play. Knock it long to the big man, who out-muscles his marker to flick it on for Elmander/Klasnic/Lee.
I hope this is the dawning of a tactical shift by England, playing like Meggo-era Bolton. I would LOL out loud, o yes I would.

I heard on the radio that he has collected more yellow cards than goals

Inaccurate factoid.

[papereyes]

The real winners here are Portugal and Netherlands, they are tiny compared to the countries who win these international tournaments regularly. I realise it's not just a question of population size, but Brazil is massive compared to the rest of the football-playing world which probably contributes to their overall success.

The book I read suggested a number of factors - GDP and population both mattered, 'history' had some effect.

According to their analysis, England come out about 10th; home advantage and a bit of luck would see them do well.

Other conclusions in there were more interesting - we need more middle class footballers.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Compare that to Portugal (5), France (9), Spain (5), Italy (10), Germany (19), Holland (10) and the remarkable thing isn't that we've only won one world cup. It's that we even managed the one.

England are contenders though which is why even the harshest cynic could never rule them out of winning a major competition.

That was kind of my point though. If we were genuine contenders, we'd have reached more than a paltry 4 semi finals. We always seem to kid ourselves that we are genuinely up there among the best, but the reality is that typically we aren't. We are a step down from the genuine challengers. We are to international football what Liverpool have been to the premiership - a strong respected side, but one that's a class below the teams that win it.


It's been said before, but winning in 1966 was probably about the worst thing that could have happened to English football. It allowed a whole new generation to believe that the English way really was the best and nothing needed changing.

[prostak]

The book I read suggested a number of factors - GDP and population both mattered, 'history' had some effect.

According to their analysis, England come out about 10th; home advantage and a bit of luck would see them do well.

Other conclusions in there were more interesting - we need more middle class footballers.

That was 'Why England Lose' by Kuper and Szymanski, right? If their analysis of the Red Sox success is accurate, Liverpool could have an interesting future if the Henry sale goes through.

I did enjoy the crushing reality of their assertion that England do about as well as they ought to expect. I read it through the build-up to the World Cup. It was a good antidote to the tabloids.

[southbank1871]

No

[papereyes]

The book I read suggested a number of factors - GDP and population both mattered, 'history' had some effect.

According to their analysis, England come out about 10th; home advantage and a bit of luck would see them do well.

Other conclusions in there were more interesting - we need more middle class footballers.

That was 'Why England Lose' by Kuper and Szymanski, right? If their analysis of the Red Sox success is accurate, Liverpool could have an interesting future if the Henry sale goes through.

I did enjoy the crushing reality of their assertion that England do about as well as they ought to expect. I read it through the build-up to the World Cup. It was a good antidote to the tabloids.

Different name in the States, but yes, that's the book.

The stat I liked (and indeed was the opposite to what I always thought) was the difference between 'good' and 'bad' England teams in qualifying.