West Ham united Tickets, 10th dec.

[floyd__streete]

I'm currently banned (blah blah blah not actually done anything)

LOL @ getting banned from RFC. What on earth did you do?

[LWJ]

I'm currently banned (blah blah blah not actually done anything)

LOL @ getting banned from RFC. What on earth did you do?

http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopi ... &start=120
4 posts down.

(i stood in front of you next to Compo at 'Boro)

[floyd__streete]

Banned from home games for an incident away from home? Murked! What kind of kagaroo court dictates such policy? You haven't broken any Madejski Stadium ground regs? I'd sue them tbh.

I have no idea who half the people who sit round me are, sorry. I only really go so I can shout loudly in Compo's ear. Apologies if my language offended.

[LWJ]

Banned from home games for an incident away from home? Murked! What kind of kagaroo court dictates such policy? You haven't broken any Madejski Stadium ground regs? I'd sue them tbh.

I have no idea who half the people who sit round me are, sorry. I only really go so I can shout loudly in Compo's ear. Apologies if my language offended.

Police suggested i was part of a group who particapted in football violence

I only stood there for the 'boro game tbh.

[Svlad Cjelli]

It seems to be standard operating procedure for clubs these days - put an instant ban on anyone arrested, regardless whether they are charged or found guilty. Some Sunderland supporters who were arrested nearly 2 years ago are still banned from home matches even though their case hasn't come to court.

There are two obvious problems with this approach. Firstly, it goes against the basic "innocent until proved guilty" that is a key part of the British justice system, and it also raises questions of date protection. Just how do Reading FC know that LWR was arrested? I know RFC have a data-sharing agreement with Thames Valley Police, but I also know that they don't have one with Avon Police, so just who told them about LWJ and were they legally entitled to do that?

[Compo's Hat]

I have no idea who half the people who sit round me are, sorry. I only really go so I can shout loudly in Compo's ear. Apologies if my language offended.

I'm not apologising for my colourful language when we are shit having paid my money.

[Winchester Royal]

It seems to be standard operating procedure for clubs these days - put an instant ban on anyone arrested, regardless whether they are charged or found guilty. Some Sunderland supporters who were arrested nearly 2 years ago are still banned from home matches even though their case hasn't come to court.

There are two obvious problems with this approach. Firstly, it goes against the basic "innocent until proved guilty" that is a key part of the British justice system, and it also raises questions of date protection. Just how do Reading FC know that LWR was arrested? I know RFC have a data-sharing agreement with Thames Valley Police, but I also know that they don't have one with Avon Police, so just who told them about LWJ and were they legally entitled to do that?

It was suggested to me that when I was banned from RFC I shouldn't have attended away games, however the paperwork I was issued with did not state that, only that I was not allowed to visit a certain premises, namely The Madejski. This was club issued though, rather than police involved, so I don't know whether it should be different there?

[Silver Fox]

I know RFC have a data-sharing agreement with Thames Valley Police, but I also know that they don't have one with Avon Police, so just who told them about LWJ and were they legally entitled to do that?

I'd hope that Avon Po-Po and TVP share info

[Svlad Cjelli]

I know RFC have a data-sharing agreement with Thames Valley Police, but I also know that they don't have one with Avon Police, so just who told them about LWJ and were they legally entitled to do that?

I'd hope that Avon Po-Po and TVP share info

They probably do - but I don't think the DPA allows onwards sharing of data that's already been shared with you.

[Cobi]

Banning from grounds doesn't work though. You can use anyone elses card and get in, or have them set one up for you in their name. Unless you look like Shrek and stand out like a sore thumb, in you go no problems.

[Svlad Cjelli]

Banning from grounds doesn't work though. You can use anyone elses card and get in, or have them set one up for you in their name. Unless you look like Shrek and stand out like a sore thumb, in you go no problems.

Unless they're specifically looking out for you because you've been announcing your intention to go to the game despite being banned on an internet message board that the club reads.....

[Cobi]

Banning from grounds doesn't work though. You can use anyone elses card and get in, or have them set one up for you in their name. Unless you look like Shrek and stand out like a sore thumb, in you go no problems.

Unless they're specifically looking out for you because you've been announcing your intention to go to the game despite being banned on an internet message board that the club reads.....

Even then though. Wear a hat, big coat, sit in a stand you don't normally sit in and keep your mouth shut. Unless you are that well known then you will slip straight in. A mate of mine in Leicester was banned for hand gestures. A warning would have sufficed, but they banned him and he hasn't missed one game since the ban was issued. It's very hard to police and very easy to get around.

[LWJ]

Thank you Tom. - Shame i only saw the first half

[Silver Fox]

Without wanting to stoke up your publicity machine, did you get sussed and thrown out? If so this can't be good for your court case can it?

[TFF]

They probably do - but I don't think the DPA allows onwards sharing of data that's already been shared with you.

I've never been able to work out what the DPA does and doesn't allow for. It's all to often cited as something that's been breached but just how do you think the police and football club might be in the wrong here?

Aside from the innocent until proven guilty bit of course.

Avon police nick a hooligan. He lives in Reading. Avon police tell TVP there's a scrote on their patch. TVP want to keep the peace in Reading and they guess that as the hoolie was at a Reading match he might be a STH or member card holder so they ask the club to confirm that is the case. The club follow their advice (rightly or wrongly) and ban him.

Now had LWJ been accused of shoplifting or cattle rustling an approach to the local football team would have been highly inappropriate and I daresay in breach of that unfathomable legislation but given that this is football rel8ed I doubt the DPA is the issue

[LWJ]

Thank you Tom. - Shame i only saw the first half

Yeah spent the weekend in Loddan Valley. Makes no difference to my case, i'm innocent still so they can feck right off.

[Silver Fox]

Surely it can't work in your favour with the court if they've told you not to go to football and you have done?

[TFF]

LWJ, what were you nicked for this time?

[Royal Lady]

He wasn't even being a hoolie - he allegedly swore at a steward ffs. To me, that's not even enough to ban him from away games until it's gone to court, let alone home ones. (Assuming he's not been in trouble at the Mad Stad previously).

[Svlad Cjelli]

They probably do - but I don't think the DPA allows onwards sharing of data that's already been shared with you.

I've never been able to work out what the DPA does and doesn't allow for. It's all to often cited as something that's been breached but just how do you think the police and football club might be in the wrong here?

Aside from the innocent until proven guilty bit of course.

Avon police nick a hooligan. He lives in Reading. Avon police tell TVP there's a scrote on their patch. TVP want to keep the peace in Reading and they guess that as the hoolie was at a Reading match he might be a STH or member card holder so they ask the club to confirm that is the case. The club follow their advice (rightly or wrongly) and ban him.

Now had LWJ been accused of shoplifting or cattle rustling an approach to the local football team would have been highly inappropriate and I daresay in breach of that unfathomable legislation but given that this is football rel8ed I doubt the DPA is the issue

Sorry, only just seen this .... there are two issues (but admittedly the first is a fairly minor legal point..)

Avon Police have a legal right to tell TVP, as you say. But I don't believe that the data-sharing agreement that TVP have with Reading FC allows them to pass on data that they've acquired through another data-sharing agreement. Otherwise where does it end? As I say, relatively minor, but just a reflection of the fact that the vast majority of football clubs ignore DPA or only use it as a shield when it suits them, and very few supporters have the balls or the tenacity to challenge clubs.

The other issue is the more important one. Internal club bans being imposed on the say-so of remote police forces (i.e. not the club's local force) are handed out so much and are fundamentally unfair. They fly in the face of "innocent until proven guilty" which is a fundamental basis if English common law.

Not in this case specifically, but there have been countless examples of supporters being banned by their club on the strength of allegations made after away games (or whilst travelling to/from them) and charges being quietly dropped 18 months or so later.

By all means if he's found guilty ban him (he'll no doubt get a FBO anyway) but until he's found guilty in a court of law he ought to be regarded as innocent by Reading FC, just like anyone else would if this wasn't "football-related".