You pay peanuts...you get...one of us?

[reading_fan]

It's been picked up in all the papers.

Got any links Zac?

[sandman]

Some rich kid will get the job, probably somebody already associated with the Club is lined up, but they have to advertise it because of policy.

That's how it generally works at Reading. If you're ITK, you will get a job there. Remember the Youth Team when we used to play them - full of mates, rather than the most talented players around Berkshire. Suppose times have changed a little as Reading recruit from far and wide now. Although that culture remains at the club somewhat - Nick Shorey's dad being a scout for a start.

Still upset about that then? You have to realise the dream is over.

[Cobi]

It's been picked up in all the papers.

Got any links Zac?

Well they better do some research on it and not make it a Reading FC witch hunt, because clearly a lot of clubs do this too.

[ZacNaloen]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 69387.html

[Tommy Youlden's Ears]

How is it immoral? Are we forcing students to apply for this?

The economics certainly work - it's a trade of labour for experience, and both parties might well be happy with that.

The case against is that the effects of unpaid internships are a tendency for employers to take advantage of young people and a widening of the social inequality gap as lower-income students are implicitly barred from this so-called "educational" experience, which is their gateway to full-employment in their chosen field.

Or more colloquially - it's taking the piss.

It's widespread in football - Wigan are apparently after three interns - and in wider business. I just don't like my club doing it. The club can afford to pay an analyst.

[St. Brynjar]

There'd have to be some sort of link to a paid job after the internship surely.

[Maguire]

In terms of long term career prospects and earning potential, a year working for a top tier/tier 2 football club will do wonders for someone's CV

Unpaid internships are nothing new and I bet they have plenty of applicants for it.

[winchester_royal]

How is it immoral? Are we forcing students to apply for this?

The economics certainly work - it's a trade of labour for experience, and both parties might well be happy with that.

The case against is that the effects of unpaid internships are a tendency for employers to take advantage of young people and a widening of the social inequality gap as lower-income students are implicitly barred from this so-called "educational" experience, which is their gateway to full-employment in their chosen field.

Or more colloquially - it's taking the piss.

It's widespread in football - Wigan are apparently after three interns - and in wider business. I just don't like my club doing it. The club can afford to pay an analyst.

Smart businesses pay the least they can which still attracts the quality of applicants they want. I'd rather they spent 20k on charity projects in the community than giving it to some spoiled studunt to go and watch some football.

ImmoROFLal.

[Scutterbucketz]

The "no expenses" part is a disgrace. What sort of person could do a role like this?

You'd have to have rich parents because I can't see you getting a Loan to pay for a car, fuel and away living expenses from any lender.

I know a chap who is part of the prozone team at Bolton and he went straight into it from university.

This is just exploitation and I hope the negative press the club gets makes them change tact, though that seems doubtful.

[Einstein agogo]

I've never met or known a working class intern.
They are almost exclusively ( in this country anyway ) from the upper middle classes.
I expect that someone from a "new money" background may manage, if living at home and dad's plumbing/scrap metal business is doing ok

[MouldyRoyal]

It strikes me also that this is a role that they would normally pay someone for but are using the lack of job opportunities for graduates in the current climate to save a salary.

[Colin Cheeselog]

What sort of person could do a role like this?

You'd have to have rich parents

This is just exploitation

Firstly, you've answered your own question. Secondly, who is it exploiting?

People have the choice of whether to apply or not... look at me... right now... not applying. See, it's easy.

[Tommy Youlden's Ears]

What sort of person could do a role like this?

You'd have to have rich parents

This is just exploitation

Firstly, you've answered your own question. Secondly, who is it exploiting?

People have the choice of whether to apply or not... look at me... right now... not applying. See, it's easy.

Colin - suppose your employer called you in and said that as there's a recession on and plenty of people who'd like your job and would work for half your wage, you have to take a 50% pay cut or leave...

Would you say...'fair enough it's a free market'?

[Wycombe Royal]

What sort of person could do a role like this?

You'd have to have rich parents

This is just exploitation

Firstly, you've answered your own question. Secondly, who is it exploiting?

People have the choice of whether to apply or not... look at me... right now... not applying. See, it's easy.

Colin - suppose your employer called you in and said that as there's a recession on and plenty of people who'd like your job and would work for half your wage, you have to take a 50% pay cut or leave...

Would you say...'fair enough it's a free market'?

No, I'd say pay me off or I'll see you in court.

[winchester_royal]

That is a truly appalling analogy.

[royalZILLAAA]

What sort of person could do a role like this?

You'd have to have rich parents

This is just exploitation

Firstly, you've answered your own question. Secondly, who is it exploiting?

People have the choice of whether to apply or not... look at me... right now... not applying. See, it's easy.

Yeah, but (I assume) you're not a recent grad who's facing nothing but rejection calls in a search for employment on account of your having no experience. Not applying isn't an option because there's no progression available without it, but applying means putting himself in a nigh-on impossible financial situation. There's no win unless mommy and daddy can keep you clothed, fed, housed and mobile.

Let's just stick all our lower-middle class grads on the dole instead, eh?

[royalZILLAAA]

Colin - suppose your employer called you in and said that as there's a recession on and plenty of people who'd like your job and would work for half your wage, you have to take a 50% pay cut or leave...

Would you say...'fair enough it's a free market'?

No, I'd say pay me off or I'll see you in court.

That's pretty much what opponents to the scheme are saying too...

[strap]

As someone who has 2 sons, (one who went through this process the other currently doing so), I can speak from direct experience.

This is simply no more than direct exploitation due to imbalances of supply and demand.

There are currently hundreds of people "graduating" every year in Sports Science / Coaching and related fields. There is absolutely no way the industry can support this number of graduates. In fact, both my sons had to do a 2 years Master Degree on top of their BSc, just so they stand a hope of getting a decent job in their chosen field.

A typical Sports Scientist at a top (ie PL or LCh) club generally must have a BSc and MSc as well as other short course qualifications. It's just the way it is. In addition, this is a relatively young science and is continually developing and evolving, so Continued Professional Development is vital to stay on top of things.

My younger son is currently just finishing his 1st year of a 2 yr MSc Sports Coaching and Management degree, and is currently working unpaid as the first XI sports analyst for a club in the lower reaches of the LCh.

It sound glamorous, (at least to me), but really consists of nothing more than glorified real time data entry. The positives as far as he is concerned is that he gets his face known around the club, is able to help out with Academy coaching, and gains experience to aid his Masters course. He is also doing his UEFA B, for which you have to be attached to a club. His current position facilitates this. The downside is I have to, (well chose to TBH), support him financially for another 2 years.

The hope is that after his 2 years, he will have an MSc plus 2 years working with a professional club, plus his UEFA B licence. Everyone assures him that he will then be able to "walk into" a decent job in his chosen career. We shall see.

My elder son did the same thing, and after working for a year as an unpaid intern, was offered a post as Sports Scientist at the start of this season at the same club, now in the upper reaches of the LCh. It was a huge struggle to get there, it was in effect a 1 year's probation period proving to his employer that a) he could get on with a close-knit community, and b) could provide added value to an employer from day 1.

I compare and contrast this with my experiences in civil engineering back in the early '80's. Like today, the country was in a recession, and although coming out of a sandwich course with effectively 2 years working experience, (for which I was paid the princely sum of £25/w to begin with, rising to £60 towards the end), I was frankly still a liability for an employer as my work would have to be checked by a Chartered Engineer before it could go out the door. Despite this, I was paid £6,200 pa from day one. Not a princely sum by any stretch, but certainly better than the dole. At the time, there wasn't a huge surplus of good graduates coming out of the system, and so employers generally had to pay something if they wanted the next generation of engineers on their staff. (As an aside, I have heard of some engineering firms now employing unpaid interns - but it is not rife in my industry yet).

The simple answer to the problem is to close down third and second rate "universities" offering non-critical courses. A friend of mine did a sports degree of some sort when I was doing engineering, and his choice of uni was limited to Exeter, Loughborough, and I think Durham, and that was it. The entry requirements were very high, and courses were always oversubscribed. Nowadays students can study a vast range of sports related "degrees" and any number of faux "universities". The sad fact is, many degrees will not be worth the paper they are written on. So in order to "stand out from the crowd", today's graduates must have something of value for a prospective employer. A year working for a PL/LCh club would be a valuable commodity to have on one's CV, and would possibly suggest that the person would be able to add value to a club from day 1 when employed on a paid basis.

I'm not condoning the system, merely illustrating why is perhaps exists. Good luck to the poor sap who takes the post on. He will need it - as well as a financially viable support network!!

[Esteban]

Every one complaining about this clearly doesn't understand business in today's world. There'll will be a long list of applicants, because it is a fantastic career opportunity.

Everybody thinks the world owes them a living. Sometimes, you have to go out and suffer some hardships for a while, in order to look at the long term employment prospects. I know some people who have spent nearly three years working as an unpaid intern, just to get a chance to work in the industry they want to be in for their entire career. And if they work hard, they'll eventually make back what they missed out on for those years and some. This is quite common practice in the US.

Some people need to get over themselves.

[Barry the bird boggler]

How is it immoral? Are we forcing students to apply for this?

Being a student who recently undertook an internship in my Gap Year I can assure you that the potential fiscal benefits of an experience like this one on your CV far outweighs any minimum wage salary they could offer.

Absolutely a great career opportunity, if students are queuing up for these things then what's the issue? Or is it case of media telling us it's an issue when really it never has been.

Personally, though, if it was me organising these things I'd offer travel expenses for away games.