Safe Standing Petition

[Hendo]

If safe standing was permitted and the club decided to implement it for, lets say 5,000 fans in the Y25/Y26 area, I bet they would sell that out pretty much every home game.

[Ian Royal]

If safe standing was permitted and the club decided to implement it for, lets say 5,000 fans in the Y25/Y26 area, I bet they would sell that out pretty much every home game.

And there's arguments that it increases capacity so they could fill it with more people than currently.

As for atmosphere, it's only one element. But physicality impacts emotional state and it's easier to slump and reinforce quiet negativity in seats. And sitting makes it harder to shout and sing loudly.

Standing will encourage people to be more active and loud. If only a little.

[tmesis]

So it would clearly need to be a separate area. But then the club will have 2 types of areas to sell tickets for and to fill. Given currently they can just sell tickets for seating anywhere, I can't see them taking on the problem of needing to ensure 2 types of areas get filled. It may be economic & logistical reasons that make it unlikely.

it makes you wonder how clubs in Leagues One and Two, and below, cope with this insurmountable logistical nightmare.

[West Stand Man]

The Times has an article this morning that is indicative of the likely government feeling on this. Like it or not the Hillsborough inquest will have a very negative effect on any thoughts of a return to any sort of terracing. At the time the country is getting its head around the findings of that inquest it is highly unlikely that they will even consider standing at football.

Of course the pro standing lobby can (with some justification) that modern standing is very different etc etc, but perception in 10/10ths of the law in this type of discussion.

[The Sum of the Parts]

I think they're failing to understand the issues completely.

For 'the safe standing lobby' yesterday's decision is a vindication of the fact that Hillsborough was nothing to do with standing.

And in fact so many things are happening towards safe standing that the tide will soon be impossible to resist. Ajax are installing rail seating shortly, and it's going into Celtic Park this summer. Once it's demonstrated that it's safe to stand and watch football in Glasgow, it's going to be hard to justify it not being safe in London or Manchester etc.

And there are now also plenty of English clubs who want to host a safe standing trial, so there's demand from within the game itself, not just from supporters.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

The Times has an article this morning that is indicative of the likely government feeling on this. Like it or not the Hillsborough inquest will have a very negative effect on any thoughts of a return to any sort of terracing. At the time the country is getting its head around the findings of that inquest it is highly unlikely that they will even consider standing at football.

Of course the pro standing lobby can (with some justification) that modern standing is very different etc etc, but perception in 10/10ths of the law in this type of discussion.

you do realise that standing at football has never actually gone away? Its only at the top 2 tiers of the English football pyramid that its not allowed. Everywhere else, a sensible level of health and safety has been introduced. Still standing.

[George_]

The Times has an article this morning that is indicative of the likely government feeling on this. Like it or not the Hillsborough inquest will have a very negative effect on any thoughts of a return to any sort of terracing. At the time the country is getting its head around the findings of that inquest it is highly unlikely that they will even consider standing at football.

Of course the pro standing lobby can (with some justification) that modern standing is very different etc etc, but perception in 10/10ths of the law in this type of discussion.

you do realise that standing at football has never actually gone away? Its only at the top 2 tiers of the English football pyramid that its not allowed. Everywhere else, a sensible level of health and safety has been introduced. Still standing.

Brentford?

[The Sum of the Parts]

Brentford?

Special exemption for the first couple of years after promotion. Then the option to extend this if they can show they're moving to a new ground.

Not even the ludicrous laws in place at the moment would make a club convert to all-seater *immediately* upon promotion.

[biscuitman]

It can't be that unsafe to allow the two years for Brentford..

[The Sum of the Parts]

It's not - the law is riddled with inconsistencies and things that just make no sense whatsoever.

[One8Seven1*]

Welcome back, Jon.

[Forbury Lion]

If Safe Standing was going to make money for the clubs e.g. additional capacity, then it might be considered..... but the last thing they want is to be blamed for another Hillsborough, even if it means they sell a few less tickets - same with those who issue the safety certificates.

Maybe the answer is to have a seated area where fans are from time to time permitted to stand in front of their seats, although in a modern seated bowl stadium that will cause visibility issues for those sat around that area.

[One8Seven1*]

I think you'd be surprised just how many clubs have thrown their support behind safe standing! We are one of them.

Celtic are adding safe standing in the summer. Once they show how safe it is the government and fa can't hide from it any longer!

[Forbury Lion]

I imagine Reading will have Safe Standing in the North Stand as it will see some of the more animated Y24 supporters who don't seem to like sitting down sat further away from the away fans and reducing the risk of any surge towards the away fans, plus make things easier to police on the Y24 front line.

[Ian Royal]

If Safe Standing was going to make money for the clubs e.g. additional capacity, then it might be considered..... but the last thing they want is to be blamed for another Hillsborough, even if it means they sell a few less tickets - same with those who issue the safety certificates.

Maybe the answer is to have a seated area where fans are from time to time permitted to stand in front of their seats, although in a modern seated bowl stadium that will cause visibility issues for those sat around that area.

Safe standing has nothing to do with Hillsborough and it would be impossible to have a Hillsborough in the standing area if it were implemented. The 'safe' part of safe standing is a bit of a giveaway. It's also supposed to increase capacity by a quite significant amount compared to seating. And on top of that it's another way of attracting punters.

Standing in front of seats is more dangerous than safe standing.

It might be an idea to read up on safe standing Forbes, then you'd know what it is, because it does rather seem like you don't. Especially with your last post about surges.

[RoyalCrisp]

Find people comparing safe standing with Hillsborough ridiculous, as has been said, standing has been confirmed as having nothing to do with the tragedy. If the goverment or clubs continue to use it as a stick to bash standing and those who stand, they're completely mis-informed and more likely ignorant on the subject.

Anyway, the thing is designed to prevent surges occuring; it's safer than what we currently have. Too many people treating this as the reintroduction of crumbling terraces or some kind of death trap. I mean look at it. You think with the facilities clubs have today a crush could occur? Modern stadia are built with safety in mind and safe standing surely only makes it safer, I mean look at it,



Hopefully with the trial in Scotland some myths about it will be dispelled and the appeal of it to both fans and clubs alike will become clearer.

For us I'd rather we had a whole end behind the goal instead of a few hundred fans tucked away in the opposite corner of the ground, for a start they need to move the family stand, still makes no sense having it in the north stand. Would need proper backing though and there's fat chance of anything happening with our owners as aloof as they are. An empty north stand with a few families and schools or a full north stand with standing fans, what sounds more preferable?

[Nameless]

That set up looks less than ideal.
Surely it needs a barrier on a single wider step. Your picture suggests anyone standing would have to balance on the edge of a second step.
Is that trying to show how you would fit these barriers into existing stands with seats removed ? If so it seems to me the experiment won't work....

[Mr.Swainey]

An empty north stand with a few families and schools or a full north stand with standing fans, what sounds more preferable?

The owners would definitely prefer the latter. What do they stand (....pun intended) to gain from potentially endorsing these changes? It would come at a cost, they wouldn't stand to make much money from it, and their attention is elsewhere.

[West Stand Man]

An empty north stand with a few families and schools or a full north stand with standing fans, what sounds more preferable?

The owners would definitely prefer the latter. What do they stand (....pun intended) to gain from potentially endorsing these changes? It would come at a cost, they wouldn't stand to make much money from it, and their attention is elsewhere.

Your logic is somewhat awry I am afraid. You say the owners would prefer the latter (full north stand) and then suggest they don't want it because it will cost. Maybe you could clarify your position a bit?

[Ian Royal]

I'd hope if we did get safe standing there'd be an area in both the East and the North to accommodate those who want it in both stands, without completely displacing those who don't want it from either.

For example, I don't really like being behind a goal, I much prefer being along the side of the pitch, but I do really want to be able to officially stand. And I'm sure there are many in the North Stand (family zone as it is) that don't want to stand, but want to stay behind a goal. I can see the club being cautious and not putting in safe standing in Y26, directly next to the away fans, but I'd hope it could be fit in to Y24/25 maybe without too much disruption.