Gordon Strachan

[TBM]

How many teams other than man united have won the premiership in the last 15 years or so?

Blackburn in 1995. Leeds in 1992. Liverpool in 1990.

[Stranded]

What's the big deal about just Celtic or Rangers winning the SPL.

Nearly every major league in Europe (and certainly a lot of the smaller ones) have 1/2/3 teams that tend to win the division.

England - Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal (poss Liverpool next year)
Italy - Inter/Milan/Juventus
Germany - Bayern Munich (have won 15 more titles that any other team) and are normally 2nd if not winning it - have won 12 of the last 25 titles
Spain - Barcelona/Real Madrid
France - Fair spread of winners though Lyon won 7 straight til this season
Holland - Ajax/PSV/Feyernoord
Portugal - Benfica/Porto/Sporting

I'm sure if you looked at most over leagues, there will be an axis of 2/3 clubs monopolising the title.

[papereyes]

population of 5M and 2 teams fight out the league

population of 40M and 3 teams fight out the league

greatest league in the world my arse

But is it always the same teams involved?

No. It was more 'open' in the 70s, if you look at the teams fighting for the title and the variation in them. It was more open in the 80s, it went a bit crazy around 1988-1993 (Liverpool, Arsenal, Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds, United winning, runners up were Manchester United, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Manchester United, Aston Villa and third place featured Forest, Spurs, Palace, Sheffield Wednesday and Norwich) and then less teams have been involved in the championship race as time has progressed.

Manchester United domination of the mid-90s hides the fact that the teams challenging them were actually a pretty varied bunch.

1992-3 saw Villa and Norwich push it to the last week or two of the season, 1993-4 saw the rise of Blackburn plus the first stirrings from Newcastle, 1995-6 saw Newcastle and Liverpool giving it a shot while the following season saw the resurrection of Arsenal before their title winning season in 1998. 1998-1999 saw a then-rare top 4 finish for Chelsea but also remember that, for 6 months, Aston Villa lead the league table. 2000 through to 2003, I guess, saw Leeds and Newcastle make alternate decent stabs at the title and then there's Everton in 2005 but the top 4 for the previous season was the 'Big 4' that we are pretty much sick of.

Liverpool finished 5th in that season, but the important factor was getting to the championship and getting their hands on that money that isn't shared on the grounds on their form in the Champions League but on their size and their history. Everton failed to get into the CL and, essentially, got their bus fare home.

Nearly every major league in Europe (and certainly a lot of the smaller ones) have 1/2/3 teams that tend to win the division.

I don't necessarily buy that. People say it and then mention the big teams. Wow. Compelling argument made, sir. I think you've also, in the age of extended qualification for Europe, look at clubs finishing second or third as it gives them access to a pretty decent chunk of money, assuming they're in the right league.

Italy has seen Roma and Lazio win it in recent years as well as get runners up spots. Inter have only won it recently because their rivals were relegated and they took advantage - in fact they were famous for not having the recent success to match their size. It is also, I guess, ironic that you don't mention Roma who have been runners up for the last four or five years. In my lifetime, I can remember both Napoli and Sampdoria winning the scudetto and the teams that qualify for the Champions league at some stage have recently included Parma and Chievo.

Germany is far more chaotic than your anecdote gives it credit for. Dortmund, Bremen, Stuttgart and, recently, Wolfsburg have all won it since 2000. That's 'better' than the PL. Further to that Schalke, Leverkusen, Hamburg regularly feature in the Champions league places. Bayern are the biggest club, yes, and have dominated over history, yes, but there's much, much more going on around than in our league.

If anything Portugal is worst - only ever won by team outside of that three you mention by two other clubs.
I think the smaller leagues will be worse, actually, given a likelihood of domination by teams from major cities or regions.

There has to be a statistical way of quantifying this - number of distinct teams in a given period (a year either side of a given year?) that finish in the top 3? Permutations should be equivalent ie United beating Chelsea to the title is indistinct from Chelsea beating United.

I'd be happy to suggest that the English top flight was pretty open, went a bit crazy in the late 80s, early 90s and then has become increasingly stagnant.

[Thaumagurist*]

How many teams other than man united have won the premiership in the last 15 years or so?

Blackburn in 1995. Leeds in 1992. Liverpool in 1990.

If you look back through the thread, I think you'll find that I was replying directly to Ian Royal, not finesoddingrain.

[Stranded]

Fair points papereyes, I'll admit I was mainly looking at the main title winners and mainly those over the past 10-20 years (not whose finished 2/3rd as didn't have the time) the fact remains though that the vast majority of titles won in those countries during that period were won by the sides mentioned in my post with very little scope for "outsiders".

[Royal With Cheese]

We're talking about English champions. Would you agree that winning the PL = English champions?

BTW, just had a look on wikipedia, the total number of different champions since both leagues came into existence:

England = 23 different champions.
Scotland = 11 different champions.

What does this tell you?

There are less teams in Scotland?

[RoyalChicagoFC]

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FEWER!

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[Stooper]

Lining up Mowbray....and Lita!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... l?ITO=1490