Offside

[Jackson Corner]

These referees are going to the World Cup! If these are the best in the world then god help us. You could not get a more blatent offside, and why did he not play advantage for Bayerns first goal before giving the pen. A clear penalty for Arsenal and the way he took the ball off the keeper and handed it to the Porto player must go down as an assist.

[Big Foot]

They can have no arguments about the goal imo. The Porto players were within their rights to take the freekick quickly and the Arsenal players should have been more awake to the play developing. Fabianski gave the ball to the ref then turned his back and Campbell was just standing there with his hands on his knees.

Didn't a similar thing happen to us in a 2-1 home defeat to Brighton (iirc), where Hahnemann picked up a pass from Murty, the Brighton forward took the ball from Hahnemann's hands, squared the ball for someone else to tap in?


Edit: found it, it was Brighton at home on 4th April 2003

On sixteen minutes the Royals conceded a bizarre goal. Hahnemann picked up the ball from a back pass. The referee gave a free kick. The Reading defence froze, Hahnamann tossed the ball away and turned his back on the game. Zamora eagerly grabbed the ball slid it to Booker who tucked it away before anyone could react.

Can't believe that was the best part of 7 years ago

[Sun Tzu]

The pass back seemed to be dealt with perfectly by the ref.

The attacking team are entitled to take the kick quickly, to stop them doing so would be to deny them the advatnage to which they are entitled.

'Ceremonial' free kicks are a different latter entirely. If an attacking team indicates to the ref that they want a 'formal' free kick with the opponents 10 yards away then they give up the right to a quick free kick, if they haven;t asked for that then they can take the kick whenever they like (subject to it being in the right place and the ball being stationary)

Obviously there was not a lot Fabianski could do to prevent it (oh, short of not being so stupid as to pick up the ball in the first place !) without incurring a yellow card. However this was perhaps a situation where an experienced keeper would have simply booted the ball away and accepted the card.

I cannot see any arguement for what the ref did being in anyway wrong.

[papereyes]

Not turned his back on play
Communicated to Campbell that the freekick was being taken.

These could even have happened at the same time.

The moment the ball is played, he can close it down.

I agree with all the stuff about freekicks, just I think there is a way around it that doesn't involve a yellow card. Yes, they still might have scored, but you lower the odds.

[Sun Tzu]

Not turned his back on play
Communicated to Campbell that the freekick was being taken.

.

I don't think there is any responsibility to inform the defenders of what is going on, they ought to know the laws and be able to react in accordance with them. Telling them would give them an unfair advantage over the attackers - who should get the advantage in any free kick situation.

I'm interested in why you think there needs to be a 'way round' anything. The 'way round' situations like this is for keepers to not pick up back passes for no reason..... once they do that then they have to accpet they have put the team in a bad situation.

[TBM]

Nobody has mentioned that the ref got in Campbells way when he tried to stop the quick free kick

Its all part of the Platini plan

[papereyes]

Not turned his back on play
Communicated to Campbell that the freekick was being taken.

.

I don't think there is any responsibility to inform the defenders of what is going on, they ought to know the laws and be able to react in accordance with them. Telling them would give them an unfair advantage over the attackers - who should get the advantage in any free kick situation.

I'm interested in why you think there needs to be a 'way round' anything. The 'way round' situations like this is for keepers to not pick up back passes for no reason..... once they do that then they have to accpet they have put the team in a bad situation.

No, Fabianski should have.

Obviously there was not a lot Fabianski could do to prevent it

Not turned his back on play
Communicated to Campbell that the freekick was being taken.

Bit confusing on my part, sorry.

Your implication was that there was nothing Fabianski could have done. Hence my use of 'a way round that'.

[1871 Royal]

These referees are going to the World Cup! If these are the best in the world then god help us. You could not get a more blatent offside, and why did he not play advantage for Bayerns first goal before giving the pen.

Tbf Bayern's 2nd goal wasn't the refs fault but the fact he didn't play on for their first was a bit silly but marginally irrelevant as robben scored it.

[Thaumagurist*]

.

[Sun Tzu]

As for quickly taken free-kicks, I'm still not sure about the idea of them, especially being so near to the goal.

Why not ?
They are 100% legal and to prevent them would be penalising the team offended against. Why do you want to allow teams to commit offences and then be given as much time as they want to stop the other team using the advantage they rightly have ?

[cmonurz]

Are there any other sports where penalty infringements are not restarted on the referee's go ahead?

[Sun Tzu]

Are there any other sports where penalty infringements are not restarted on the referee's go ahead?

Snooker ?

Hockey for sure.

Rugby.

I suspect the list is a pretty long one.

[cmonurz]

Momentary brain-freeze.

I wondered about hockey, rugby I had written off, but of course you can take a quick touch penalty.

[Sun Tzu]

I think the other thing to remember is that there has to be 'de facto' approval' by the ref for quick free kicks. The players have to ensure they meet certain criteria (ball in the right place, ball stationary) or the ref will pull them back and make them take a 'ceremonial'. It's not complete anarchy !

[SLAMMED]

if he didn't he would have got a yellow card.

Yellow card >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conceding a goal.

[papereyes]

I think the other thing to remember is that there has to be 'de facto' approval' by the ref for quick free kicks. The players have to ensure they meet certain criteria (ball in the right place, ball stationary) or the ref will pull them back and make them take a 'ceremonial'. It's not complete anarchy !

Most refs leave it if its not taking the piss though.

[rabidbee]

I was speaking from any knowledge of how refs are trained, it was more a statement of how I think the game should be. The still that TBM posted shows Campbell standing with his hand on his hips not even looking at the ball. Serves him right for not getting back into position straight away. Serves the rest of the Arsenal defence for not racing back to help out. Serves Fabianski right for not being prepared for the kick either.

What I would _like_ to see would be something like the rules in rugby, so that - as far as is possible - an attacking player is always entitled to take a quick free kick (from the correct place) and with the defenders ten yards away. OK, if you take it quickly then the defence might not have had time to retreat fully, but nevertheless the onus should be on them to immediately retreat ten yards as quickly as possible. If they do try to get back and the free kick hits them then there's nothing more they could do, and the attackers have wasted the opportunity. However, if the ball hits them and they haven't (in the ref's opinion) tried to retreat 10 yards then it should be another free kick, same situation. Deliberately trying to prevent a quick free kick - by standing in front of the ball, for instance, or by holding onto it - should be an automatic yellow card (as you might expect if a player charges out of a wall before a kick is taken).

And if a foul is committed in the box and your men don't have time to line up a wall, well diddums. Don't commit a foul in the box.

[Ark Royal]

Some of the stuff on here is complete bollocks. A free kick has to be taken from the spot where the offence took place and the referee does NOT have to blow his whistle before the kick - indirect or direct - can be taken. A penalty kick is a special case and is a result of an offence committed anywhere in the penalty area and can only be taken when all other outfield players are outside the penalty area and/or behind the 'D' AND on the referee's signal.

NO offending team is allowed gain an advantage from a free kick and there are other instances of this, i.e. if a direct free kick is awarded and the player fouled passes the ball directly into his own goal, the referee's correct decision is to award a corner to the offending team, not a goal.

If Fabianski and Campbell had two brain cells between them, the keeper should have thrown the ball back while retreating to his goal FACING THE PLAY and Campbell should have got goal-side (and stood on the ball - worth a yellow) instead of moaning and taking a breather. Vermaelen should been wide awake as well instead of standing there watching his dick grow smaller. You cannot blame Porto for taking advantage of Arsenal's schoolboy errors and plain stupidity.; and Wenger is a moaning pcunt who should recall that Thierry Henry did almost exactly the same thing a few years ago. Or perhaps he 'did not zee it.'

[Sun Tzu]

What I would _like_ to see would be something like the rules in rugby, so that - as far as is possible - an attacking player is always entitled to take a quick free kick (from the correct place) and with the defenders ten yards away. OK, if you take it quickly then the defence might not have had time to retreat fully, but nevertheless the onus should be on them to immediately retreat ten yards as quickly as possible. If they do try to get back and the free kick hits them then there's nothing more they could do, and the attackers have wasted the opportunity. However, if the ball hits them and they haven't (in the ref's opinion) tried to retreat 10 yards then it should be another free kick, same situation. Deliberately trying to prevent a quick free kick - by standing in front of the ball, for instance, or by holding onto it - should be an automatic yellow card (as you might expect if a player charges out of a wall before a kick is taken).

And if a foul is committed in the box and your men don't have time to line up a wall, well diddums. Don't commit a foul in the box.

Those aren't the rules of rugby, those are the laws of football !

Almost exactly ....

[rabidbee]

Well, can somebody tell the refs?