Gomes after 10 League Games

[From Despair To Where?]

I was talking soley about how he dealt with the players as people.

It's all about how you manage people.

[Denver Royal]

At the the time of his sacking, I wanted Clement to be given more time but I think the decision has been justified and the improvement in results is just a small part of that. I feel that Gomes has invested far more of himself into the club than Clement ever did.
I don't demand success but I do expect players to give their all. For the first time in ages, the players play like they give a shit in every game and that starts with the manager.

I think this is fair. I do wonder what Clement could have done with the same loanees support.
But whether by luck or judgement, the Gomes appointment is proving excellent so far. And with Howe's record you've got to assume judgement and go on the basis he could see Gomes quality beyond his record based on info we weren't privy to.
I liked Clement, but there's something contagious about Gomes' enthusiasm and engagement that Clement didn't have (mind you, I don't think SSC had it either!).

I'm not totally convinced Clement would have got the exact same 5 loanees? (Or got the exact same performances from each if he had?).
If we had hired Steve Bruce, would he have got the same 5 in?
Warnock, Pulis. Dean Smith? Different managers have different styles/systems which require different players, and they rate players differently.
Would the 5 loanees have even wanted/agreed to come here under Clement? Would he have wanted all of them?
(For all we know, Clement may have bought somebody from Lg1 or 2).

[Snowflake Royal]

At the the time of his sacking, I wanted Clement to be given more time but I think the decision has been justified and the improvement in results is just a small part of that. I feel that Gomes has invested far more of himself into the club than Clement ever did.
I don't demand success but I do expect players to give their all. For the first time in ages, the players play like they give a shit in every game and that starts with the manager.

I think this is fair. I do wonder what Clement could have done with the same loanees support.
But whether by luck or judgement, the Gomes appointment is proving excellent so far. And with Howe's record you've got to assume judgement and go on the basis he could see Gomes quality beyond his record based on info we weren't privy to.
I liked Clement, but there's something contagious about Gomes' enthusiasm and engagement that Clement didn't have (mind you, I don't think SSC had it either!).

I'm not totally convinced Clement would have got the exact same 5 loanees? (Or got the exact same performances from each if he had?).
If we had hired Steve Bruce, would he have got the same 5 in? Warnock, Pulis. Dean Smith? Different managers have different styles/systems which require different players, and they rate players differently.
Would the 5 loanees have even wanted/agreed to come here under Clement? Would he have wanted all of them?
(For all we know, Clement may have bought somebody from Lg1 or 2).

It takes time to identify players you want and I don't see Gomes having been the one to identify any of those players, nor having had the time to scout them, assess them and put the wheels in motion.

Whether theyd have wanted to play for Clement is another factor. And of course experienced and established UK based managers would likely already have a catalogue of players to consider from previous jobs which again I think is different.

I think it's likely Clement would have had at least three of the same loanees. Oliveira for sure, probably Baker and probably Miazga. Less sure on Martinez and Ejaria. But under Clement I think keeper was less of an issue as Jaakkola was doing well at that poi t ( he just can't play short)

Performances is total speculation and I make no claims either way. It's possible he could have got more from Baker earlier. He likely would have got more from Kelly at least of the perm players!

[Nameless]

I think this is fair. I do wonder what Clement could have done with the same loanees support.
But whether by luck or judgement, the Gomes appointment is proving excellent so far. And with Howe's record you've got to assume judgement and go on the basis he could see Gomes quality beyond his record based on info we weren't privy to.
I liked Clement, but there's something contagious about Gomes' enthusiasm and engagement that Clement didn't have (mind you, I don't think SSC had it either!).

I'm not totally convinced Clement would have got the exact same 5 loanees? (Or got the exact same performances from each if he had?).
If we had hired Steve Bruce, would he have got the same 5 in? Warnock, Pulis. Dean Smith? Different managers have different styles/systems which require different players, and they rate players differently.
Would the 5 loanees have even wanted/agreed to come here under Clement? Would he have wanted all of them?
(For all we know, Clement may have bought somebody from Lg1 or 2).

It takes time to identify players you want and I don't see Gomes having been the one to identify any of those players, nor having had the time to scout them, assess them and put the wheels in motion.

Whether theyd have wanted to play for Clement is another factor. And of course experienced and established UK based managers would likely already have a catalogue of players to consider from previous jobs which again I think is different.

I think it's likely Clement would have had at least three of the same loanees. Oliveira for sure, probably Baker and probably Miazga. Less sure on Martinez and Ejaria. But under Clement I think keeper was less of an issue as Jaakkola was doing well at that poi t ( he just can't play short)

Performances is total speculation and I make no claims either way. It's possible he could have got more from Baker earlier. He likely would have got more from Kelly at least of the perm players!

Interesting assertions. Any basis for them ?
I agree that the players almost certainly weren’t Gomes personal choices and I doubt any bar Oliviera would have been influenced by the fact he was manager. I’m not sure thinking whether Clement would have been given the same players gets us anywhere, he clearly wasn’t part of the future and I don’t think he would have achieved much even with them. His track record as a manager is mediocre and you just can’t see him injecting the positivity and commitment Jose has.
We may find Jose is no more than a sun tanned Martin Allen and can do no more than he has. I hope not but he’ll certainly go down as a bit of a folk hero whereas Clement will probably barely rate a line in our history books.
Clement is clearly talented, you don’t get jobs at a series of top European sides unless you are very, very good. This just wasn’t the time or the role for him.

[Snowflake Royal]

Oli - prior interest from the club
Baker - problem position and well known player
Miazga - problem position, our US links have existed a while

Ejaria - not sure he is in a position Clement would have prioritised and feels a bit more of a luxury addition?
Already explained Martinez.

Clement could hardly have got less out of Kelly seeing as Gomes has barely used him and he was alright previously.

I think that covers the assertions, though I think that's a bit strong of a term for them.

[From Despair To Where?]

Clement got jobs at top European sides as a coach. As many fine coaches have discovered to their cost, management is a completely different barrel of monkeys.

Not meaning to repeat myself endlessly but as we all know, Liam Moore has aluded to his inability to communicate effectively as his biggest failing.

[Nameless]

Oli - prior interest from the club
Baker - problem position and well known player
Miazga - problem position, our US links have existed a while

Ejaria - not sure he is in a position Clement would have prioritised and feels a bit more of a luxury addition?
Already explained Martinez.

Clement could hardly have got less out of Kelly seeing as Gomes has barely used him and he was alright previously.

I think that covers the assertions, though I think that's a bit strong of a term for them.

I think it is much more likely that getting rid of Clement and getting the loanees in were decisions made at the same board meeting. There is just no way Clement would have had any of them because him going and them coming were totally linked.
I’d also have been much more convinced if you had used the Chelsea link as a reason we would have got Miazga and Baker ! Being the same nationality as a couple of former players and being a bit known about Don’t really stack up !

[CountryRoyal]

We were interested in Miazga years ago before he signed for Chelsea and we were close to signing Baker before he went to Boro last season, so we were already aware of them.

[Zip]

It’s odd that we still don’t have a Technical Director. It’s been a few months now. We are none the wiser as to who takes the kudos for the January signings. Whoever it was did a brilliant job.

Just as important was that the players bought in to what Gomes wanted. They did and we have improved as a side week by week. Those iffy wins against Ipswich and Wigan were followed by far more convincing victories over Preston and Brentford.
So results have massively improved and over time so have performances. Gomes has done brilliantly especially as he had to hit the ground running. Over an incredibly intense four months he has worked wonders. There is no chance Clement would have done the same.

[Nameless]

We were interested in Miazga years ago before he signed for Chelsea and we were close to signing Baker before he went to Boro last season, so we were already aware of them.

Which doesn’t address the hypothetical question of whether they would have been brought in if Clement had been manager. We’ll be aware of hundreds of players, was it Maurice Evans who reckoned over the course of a season he probably saw the vast majority of players at least once.

[Snowflake Royal]

Oli - prior interest from the club
Baker - problem position and well known player
Miazga - problem position, our US links have existed a while

Ejaria - not sure he is in a position Clement would have prioritised and feels a bit more of a luxury addition?
Already explained Martinez.

Clement could hardly have got less out of Kelly seeing as Gomes has barely used him and he was alright previously.

I think that covers the assertions, though I think that's a bit strong of a term for them.

I think it is much more likely that getting rid of Clement and getting the loanees in were decisions made at the same board meeting. There is just no way Clement would have had any of them because him going and them coming were totally linked.
I’d also have been much more convinced if you had used the Chelsea link as a reason we would have got Miazga and Baker ! Being the same nationality as a couple of former players and being a bit known about Don’t really stack up !

What's the justification for your assertion that we wouldn't have signed any of he same players, because I find that baffling.

[CountryRoyal]

We were interested in Miazga years ago before he signed for Chelsea and we were close to signing Baker before he went to Boro last season, so we were already aware of them.

Which doesn’t address the hypothetical question of whether they would have been brought in if Clement had been manager. We’ll be aware of hundreds of players, was it Maurice Evans who reckoned over the course of a season he probably saw the vast majority of players at least once.

No for sure, nor was it meant to.I was Just chiming in with more useless info as usual.

[Nameless]

We were interested in Miazga years ago before he signed for Chelsea and we were close to signing Baker before he went to Boro last season, so we were already aware of them.

Which doesn’t address the hypothetical question of whether they would have been brought in if Clement had been manager. We’ll be aware of hundreds of players, was it Maurice Evans who reckoned over the course of a season he probably saw the vast majority of players at least once.

No for sure, nor was it meant to.I was Just chiming in with more useless info as usual.

Your useless info is always appreciated....

[sandman]

If you want to know who is the power behind these loan transfers then look no further than Joorabchian and his agency. There is a reason why Mikaël Silvestre, who basically works for Joorabchian, is seen in the hotel after matches. The last time we brought in a whole load of loan players was when Joorabchian was previously involved and miraculously he gets involved again and we start the same policy.

You don't just come up with this calibre of player in such a short time after you've sacked everyone involved in the process of making signing without someone with more influence than Nigel Howe and Jose Gomes being involved. I suspect Clement would have wanted a bigger say in the transfer process than Howe and the owners are prepared to give a manager.

The only player I can see Gomes realistically having an influence in us signing is Oliveira. Even that I would think amounts to "come to us. We have one of your countrymen as manager and he'll treat you better than that German bloke you don't like". Credit goes to Gomes for knitting them together as a team but they'd be coming in regardless of whether he'd replaced Clement or someone else had done so.

[Nameless]

If you want to know who is the power behind these loan transfers then look no further than Joorabchian and his agency. There is a reason why Mikaël Silvestre, who basically works for Joorabchian, is seen in the hotel after matches. The last time we brought in a whole load of loan players was when Joorabchian was previously involved and miraculously he gets involved again and we start the same policy.

You don't just come up with this calibre of player in such a short time after you've sacked everyone involved in the process of making signing without someone with more influence than Nigel Howe and Jose Gomes being involved. I suspect Clement would have wanted a bigger say in the transfer process than Howe and the owners are prepared to give a manager.

The only player I can see Gomes realistically having an influence in us signing is Oliveira. Even that I would think amounts to "come to us. We have one of your countrymen as manager and he'll treat you better than that German bloke you don't like". Credit goes to Gomes for knitting them together as a team but they'd be coming in regardless of whether he'd replaced Clement or someone else had done so.

The Joorabchian link was pretty well publicised at the time surely ? What is interesting is that the players all have different agents so he didn’t just pull players from his own stable. Presumably we’ll have paid him a hefty fee but the approach has worked extremely well.
Gomes was pretty clear that while he had some input to the deals it was a ‘team effort’ to identify and bring them in. Suspect he ‘ll be fine with it, it’s a much more common thing overseas for yourmanager to be essentially given a squad of players and told to coach them, not done Real Madrid much harm !
I take your last line to be agree8ng that’s. Getting rid of Clement was a key element of bringing the players in, there was not a scenario where he stayed and we brought the group in.

[CountryRoyal]

I think we all agreed that loan players were a good way to go to see out this season as considering the uncertainty over our future league status. It will be interesting to see what avenue we go down in the summer.

[From Despair To Where?]

I thought Joorabchian was only involved in the appointment of Gomes as his agency deals almost exclusively with Portugese and Brazilian based clubs and players and if the owners were determined to go Portugese, to be fair, he is an expert on that market.

I reckon every loanee was on the radar to some degree as that's the remit of a scouting team to identify specific indivuduals to fit a type of player. I think Baker would have come regardless, the others, I'm not so sure but it's all hypothetical.

[Snowflake Royal]

I think we all agreed that loan players were a good way to go to see out this season as considering the uncertainty over our future league status. It will be interesting to see what avenue we go down in the summer.

Absolutely.

[Nameless]

I thought Joorabchian was only involved in the appointment of Gomes as his agency deals almost exclusively with Portugese and Brazilian based clubs and players and if the owners were determined to go Portugese, to be fair, he is an expert on that market.

I reckon every loanee was on the radar to some degree as that's the remit of a scouting team to identify specific indivuduals to fit a type of player. I think Baker would have come regardless, the others, I'm not so sure but it's all hypothetical.

It was mentioned to me by someone with a solid connection at the club that the recruitment had essentially been outsourced, by which Inassumed we’d appointed an agent to get a set of players. Of course we may have given them names we were especially interested in.
How this stacks with the fact that we got these players for nothing I can’t quite work out. For a single agent to persuade 4 clubs to give players to us and not charge a fee is amazing, especially when 2 of them are part of Chelsea’s money earning farm !
Would love Nigel Howe to come to a fans forum and give us an honest explanation of how it was done.

[Hound]

Not just the fees though - Baker and Miazga were doing nothing except losing value where they were. Between them, they are probably worth 5-6m more than they were 4 months ago

Martinez similar