Whole Stadium to be a Cash free zone. (UPDATED)

[Sun Tzu]

Del Boy

Luckily this 'extra card' can also be used to gain entrance to the ground....

'The secret of a succesful business is to make things easy for your clients or customers, this certainly doesn't do that.'

Actually plenty of massive businesses have been very successful without making life easy for their customers. Look at Microsoft, British Airways, almost any financial institution (OK not 'successful' now !). But the point had already been made about the scheme only working if people want to use it.

[Sun Tzu]

And via your mobile.

Hence the examples quoted....

For a lot of people that kind of transaction is either difficult or, for want of a better word, a little scary.

If it was a reasonably high tech environment with users who are more accepting and capable of using these kind of things it might not have been such a waste of time. As it is I think it was destined to fail because its not the right environment to use it, and that's why the goodwill towards the system is lacking.

There is also the very low tech option of handing over a tenner to a human and getting it credited to your card. Not massively different to the 'old' way of doing things.

[Hoop Blah]

Not too different in essence but in no way preferable to the actual use of the cash in the first place, at least not for the customer anyway.

I can understand the clubs desire for a cashless stadium as it means there is no pilfering from the low paid staff, but by no means does that make it attractive to the majority of its paying customers.

[Sun Tzu]

Hoops,

Not too much to disagree with there !

There are more benefits than just stopping pilfering I'm sure (just not having to handle large amounts of cash for a start...) and for it to work those benefits have to be used to give the customer a better service. If the caterers can save enough to employ more / better staff for example then everyone benefits.

As I've said a number of times though I actually see major barriers to rolling this out to the rest of the stadium anyway, it's not good to see the attitude of some on here who seem to be against it without even knowing what it is about.

[Huntley & Palmer]

I think the club are thinking too far ahead technology wise, contactless payment is still in it's infancy in the UK outside of the Tube network. They should ideally ensure that the pads/readers are compliant with the debit/credit cards and mobile phones coming out in the next year or so that will have this built in. That way, balances are not a problem as the money resides in the person's bank account and all this hassle of including it as part of your member card is removed.

[TFF]

I think the club are thinking too far ahead technology wise, contactless payment is still in it's infancy in the UK outside of the Tube network. They should ideally ensure that the pads/readers are compliant with the debit/credit cards and mobile phones coming out in the next year or so that will have this built in. That way, balances are not a problem as the money resides in the person's bank account and all this hassle of including it as part of your member card is removed.

Quite.

Apart from the hassle of making sure there's money on my card my only real objection to the system is that RFC have the benefit of the £7.50 odd that's still on my card until I get the chance to spend it.

[Sun Tzu]

I think the club are thinking too far ahead technology wise, contactless payment is still in it's infancy in the UK outside of the Tube network. They should ideally ensure that the pads/readers are compliant with the debit/credit cards and mobile phones coming out in the next year or so that will have this built in. That way, balances are not a problem as the money resides in the person's bank account and all this hassle of including it as part of your member card is removed.

Man City use a similar system but it uses a Visa card (I think...). I did talk to someone about it and from what I heard it had plenty of problems, like people actually being able to obtain a card if they were U16, or didn't have a bank account, or were overseas visitors. I suspect you also lose some of the cost savings due to the fees involved from the card issuer.

Reading Buses use a contactless payment system and I know there was thought of the QuickPay system linking up with that so your travel / match ticket / refreshments were all on one card.

[Sun Tzu]

Apart from the hassle of making sure there's money on my card my only real objection to the system is that RFC have the benefit of the £7.50 odd that's still on my card until I get the chance to spend it.

£7.50 at 1% over 3 days does add up to a huge amount !!

Do the club actually have the benefit from it ? I don't know how these things work, surely given that you can get the money refunded it's in some kind of 'suspense' account until you actually spend it ? No idea..... But obviously you aren't getting the interest on it (like if it was in your wallet !!)

[TFF]

Apart from the hassle of making sure there's money on my card my only real objection to the system is that RFC have the benefit of the £7.50 odd that's still on my card until I get the chance to spend it.

£7.50 at 1% over 3 days does add up to a huge amount !!

Do the club actually have the benefit from it ? I don't know how these things work, surely given that you can get the money refunded it's in some kind of 'suspense' account until you actually spend it ? No idea..... But obviously you aren't getting the interest on it (like if it was in your wallet !!)

There's a balance on my card all the time - some weeks it might just be 50p but it's usually between £5 and £10. Roll the system out around the whole stadium and get say 12,000 active STHs - RFC, or the Quickpay people, could have approx £100,000 at any one time that their customers haven't even spent yet!

It does add up.

It's not really the interest that bothers me (esp at current rates) just that it's my money not theirs.

[Sun Tzu]

Apart from the hassle of making sure there's money on my card my only real objection to the system is that RFC have the benefit of the £7.50 odd that's still on my card until I get the chance to spend it.

£7.50 at 1% over 3 days does add up to a huge amount !!

Do the club actually have the benefit from it ? I don't know how these things work, surely given that you can get the money refunded it's in some kind of 'suspense' account until you actually spend it ? No idea..... But obviously you aren't getting the interest on it (like if it was in your wallet !!)

There's a balance on my card all the time - some weeks it might just be 50p but it's usually between £5 and £10. Roll the system out around the whole stadium and get say 12,000 active STHs - RFC, or the Quickpay people, could have approx £100,000 at any one time that their customers haven't even spent yet!

It does add up.

It's not really the interest that bothers me (esp at current rates) just that it's my money not theirs.

I paid several hundred quid for my season ticket last May which RFC have had use of since then. I can't reclaim the money, I had no option but to pay it up front and even if I can;t go to a game I can't get the amount that game was worth recredited to my 'account'.

And you chose how much to have on your card, if you spend a fiver a game then why have ten quid sat on it ?

And are the calculations right that £100,000 @1% would be worth £1000 over the course of the year, or £20 a week (roughly). So even if 12,000 people kept a tenner on their cards for the whole of the season it wouldn't earn the club enough to pay for one steward per game !

[Huntley & Palmer]

I think the club are thinking too far ahead technology wise, contactless payment is still in it's infancy in the UK outside of the Tube network. They should ideally ensure that the pads/readers are compliant with the debit/credit cards and mobile phones coming out in the next year or so that will have this built in. That way, balances are not a problem as the money resides in the person's bank account and all this hassle of including it as part of your member card is removed.

Man City use a similar system but it uses a Visa card (I think...). I did talk to someone about it and from what I heard it had plenty of problems, like people actually being able to obtain a card if they were U16, or didn't have a bank account, or were overseas visitors. I suspect you also lose some of the cost savings due to the fees involved from the card issuer.

Reading Buses use a contactless payment system and I know there was thought of the QuickPay system linking up with that so your travel / match ticket / refreshments were all on one card.

In theory those costs are already been paid by RFC when the online transaction to add the money onto your present member card is completed, so it's horses for courses. It's not a free transfer unless the transaction website owner has become very charitable all of a sudden. Just seems to be a bit OTT a system for the relatively small problem of feeding a few thousand people snacks every couple of weeks.

[Sun Tzu]

[. Just seems to be a bit OTT a system for the relatively small problem of feeding a few thousand people snacks every couple of weeks.

I think the problem comes because it is 10-15,000 people in extremely compressed time scales. It must be a horrendous thing to organise and make money from so they look at every angle to try and shave costs, find efficiencies etc. Whether this achieves that is open to question !

[Rex]

Some of the issues it raises are that the money loaded onto the cards is advance payment for goods not yet paid for. I understand the issue that cards lost are reimbursed somehow but this needs explaining further. I suppose there must be a code member/ account for each individual card. If the money is not credited to the customer or if its a set fee for reimbursement then its easy money.
I take it there is a way to feedback the issues encountered and possibly ways of improving this service. I take it that this cashless system is not a success and will not be going right through all the concourses.

At work we use cashless systems which utilise a duel function card. Have the club thought of using ST or member cards and where on the concourse are the loading machines. In the North Stand, the concourse is heavily congested and i fear that the cashless vending would make this area more so. Is the club acting on ways to improve the system or drop it all together.

[Matt de K]

My whole issue with it is the fact that I have to give RFC money before I get my goods. The whole principle of the matter bothers me. No choice. Being told we ARE going to have a cashless system at the Mad Stad annoyed me. Even more so was the "charge" that if we needed to claim money back off the card it would cost us to get a refund. It just seems to me that this is another way of RFC making money. They get their money banked, and they also get anything not used banked

I've heard people on here saying it's good, I've heard 1st hand of people that say that it's not sorted out anything apart from adding more confusion. Queues are the same. And who's going to eventually pay for this system? Everything will go up in price, again

Like I said earlier, I've seen the light now. Minimal spending at the Mad Stad is the way forward for me now. I've learnt that I can park my car (or which ever of us drives) safely for free - we can get beer (decent choice and decent taste and more importantly decent price) and we can get food which is a) 1000% better taste & satisfaction imho b)hotter &c)value for money.

Previously I had given all this trade to RFC - now we have worked out that whoever is drinking & eating can save around a tenner EACH per game by doing the above away from the Mad

[Sun Tzu]

I understand the issue that cards lost are reimbursed somehow but this needs explaining further. I suppose there must be a code member/ account for each individual card.

Yes, the money is not 'on' your card as such. If you lose the card you've not lost your money as the database still knows how much you have. You just get a new card. Exactly the same as your season ticket works.

I take it there is a way to feedback the issues encountered and possibly ways of improving this service.

Yes, there is also lots of info about it on the OS

I take it that this cashless system is not a success and will not be going right through all the concourses.

Um I guess you've not read the rest of the thread !

At work we use cashless systems which utilise a duel function card. Have the club thought of using ST or member cards

That is how it has worked from Day 1 !!

and where on the concourse are the loading machines. In the North Stand, the concourse is heavily congested and i fear that the cashless vending would make this area more so.

At the moment there are two in the UW I think, no reason they couldn't actually be outside the ground or anywhere. But I agree that the congestion in the concourses would be a big problem

[Sun Tzu]

Like I said earlier, I've seen the light now. Minimal spending at the Mad Stad is the way forward for me now. I've learnt that I can park my car (or which ever of us drives) safely for free - we can get beer (decent choice and decent taste and more importantly decent price) and we can get food which is a) 1000% better taste & satisfaction imho b)hotter &c)value for money.

I can't believe it's taken you 10 years to suss this !

Eating and drinking at just about any football stadium is expensive, poor quality and unhealthy. I can't believe anyone would put up with over priced warm fizzy 'beer' and lardy pies and then because they need to use a different payment system decide not to bother !

[Rex]

I understand the issue that cards lost are reimbursed somehow but this needs explaining further. I suppose there must be a code member/ account for each individual card.

Yes, the money is not 'on' your card as such. If you lose the card you've not lost your money as the database still knows how much you have. You just get a new card. Exactly the same as your season ticket works.

I take it there is a way to feedback the issues encountered and possibly ways of improving this service.

Yes, there is also lots of info about it on the OS

I take it that this cashless system is not a success and will not be going right through all the concourses.

Um I guess you've not read the rest of the thread !

At work we use cashless systems which utilise a duel function card. Have the club thought of using ST or member cards

That is how it has worked from Day 1 !!

and where on the concourse are the loading machines. In the North Stand, the concourse is heavily congested and i fear that the cashless vending would make this area more so.

At the moment there are two in the UW I think, no reason they couldn't actually be outside the ground or anywhere. But I agree that the congestion in the concourses would be a big problem

Thanks for breaking that down so eloquently. i haven't really read the OS site, only casually perused this for feedback from the supporters using this system. Ongoing i take it then.

[Matt de K]

Like I said earlier, I've seen the light now. Minimal spending at the Mad Stad is the way forward for me now. I've learnt that I can park my car (or which ever of us drives) safely for free - we can get beer (decent choice and decent taste and more importantly decent price) and we can get food which is a) 1000% better taste & satisfaction imho b)hotter &c)value for money.

I can't believe it's taken you 10 years to suss this !

Eating and drinking at just about any football stadium is expensive, poor quality and unhealthy. I can't believe anyone would put up with over priced warm fizzy 'beer' and lardy pies and then because they need to use a different payment system decide not to bother !

LOL - yeah to a certain degree you are right, but remember; when it was never reserved seating you had to get there early to get your regular seat (which has now been my ST seat since it was made reserved), and in all honesty the trend of getting there early never faded. It was a Saturday routine with the same group of friends that made it a good day. But back in the days beer wasn't £3.30 a pint, parking wasn't £8 or £10. A burger from the van (not that I would get one nowadays) wasn't £3 - NOR was a slice of cheese 50p!!! Nor was the word Scrumptious so miss-used!

But it wasn't the cashless system that prompted me to abandon this. This has been happening for a few seasons now. However, depending on how many beers have been consumed, we may get a sneaky pie during the 1st half to cure the munchies, we may get a beer/half just before kickoff and we may get a beer/half during half time. This is what the cashless system is going to make me abandon; the maybe get a beer etc etc.

I seriously don't understand the need for a cashless stadium. If it is essential then why not have chip and pin machines - ok I understand that some of them are painfully slow - but alot of them are super quick now. Is it because RFC make no money on them?

[Huntley & Palmer]

RFC don't make any money on any payment system for the concourses, it just increases their margin on the concessions if it can be done cheaper. I don't know how the split of the takings are contracted, I expect RFC pay an annual fee for Compass or whoever it is now to provide the service and work a percentage on the takings.

[Sun Tzu]

RFC don't make any money on any payment system for the concourses, it just increases their margin on the concessions if it can be done cheaper. I don't know how the split of the takings are contracted, I expect RFC pay an annual fee for Compass or whoever it is now to provide the service and work a percentage on the takings.

I had understood it that the catering at the stadium as a whole was contracted out and the stadium side was effectively a loss making side whilst the corporate side (not just the match day stuff) was where the money was made. Companies who wanted to take on the corporate side were compelled to take on the concourses as well. I'd also thought the fee was paid to RFC for the franchise, but could be wrong !