Chumps League - It's a knockout

[papereyes]

How about a more equitable sharing of the cash so the big teams don't get richer at the expense of their competition?

Graham, can we keep these Socialists off HNA please.

A more competitive tournament would make more money.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Well, for me the CL has achieved the following:

A virtually pointless Group stage.
Competition in domestic Leagues across Europe has been more or less wiped out.
The UEFA Cup used to be a strong competition and great to watch. Now it seems disregarded in just about every aspect.
The Cup Winners Cup doesn't exist anymore.
Clubs spend stupid amounts of money trying to hang on to the coat tails of the CL teams, achieving nothing in most cases and puting their entire future at risk.
CL clubs have such big squads they are 'hording' players that would make other teams more competitive.
And year after year, Money goes to Money, G14 get stronger, and the CL itself becomes more and more of a bore fest.

Since the CL bagan, i can recall Rangers missing out on the final on goal diff, Ajax winning the competition with young homegrown players, Dortmund & Porto lifting the trophy, Leverkusen Monaco Valencia (twice) reaching the final. I just can't see those events happening at all in future. You might get the odd case, but nothing more.

I agree the standard at the later stages is better, but thats down to the best players being at fewer elite clubs, an elite that is getting smaller and smaller.

[Ginger Ninjas]

Well, for me the CL has achieved the following:

A virtually pointless Group stage.
Competition in domestic Leagues across Europe has been more or less wiped out.
The UEFA Cup used to be a strong competition and great to watch. Now it seems disregarded in just about every aspect.
The Cup Winners Cup doesn't exist anymore.
Clubs spend stupid amounts of money trying to hang on to the coat tails of the CL teams, achieving nothing in most cases and puting their entire future at risk.
CL clubs have such big squads they are 'hording' players that would make other teams more competitive.
And year after year, Money goes to Money, G14 get stronger, and the CL itself becomes more and more of a bore fest.

Since the CL bagan, i can recall Rangers missing out on the final on goal diff, Ajax winning the competition with young homegrown players, Dortmund & Porto lifting the trophy, Leverkusen Monaco Valencia (twice) reaching the final. I just can't see those events happening at all in future. You might get the odd case, but nothing more.

I agree the standard at the later stages is better, but thats down to the best players being at fewer elite clubs, an elite that is getting smaller and smaller.

Absolutely spot on, imo.

[papereyes]

Tony,

The information has been posted on here before and is easily found but have a look at how they share the Champions League and UEFA cup money.

It is actually quite depressing that a team like Liverpool make more money for being Liverpool than they do for reaching the final of a tournament.
The UEFA cup gets a fraction of the money of the CL so it simply becomes not worth it for the clubs chasing the CL/avoiding the drop. Put more money in the UEFA cup and there will be an incentive over finishing two places higher in the PL.

Anyway, I always wonder how you can call the PL the best league in the world when their UEFA cup entrants [supposedly the next best teams] get beaten by Hamburg (twice), CSKA Moscow, Shaktar Donetsk, Braga, Wolfsburg, Udinese, Standard Liege and MSK Zilina. It is hardly the great and the good of European football there.


UEFA cup is now an all-Ukrainian semi and an all-German semi.

[soggy biscuit]

Anyway, I always wonder how you can call the PL the best league in the world when their UEFA cup entrants [supposedly the next best teams] get beaten by Hamburg (twice), CSKA Moscow, Shaktar Donetsk, Braga, Wolfsburg, Udinese, Standard Liege and MSK Zilina. It is hardly the great and the good of European football there.

UEFA cup is now an all-Ukrainian semi and an all-German semi.

I believe it is only Richard Keys & chums that actually believes the Premier league to be the best in the world.

[The whole year inn]

It should just be a knockout competition from the start..

No seeding, no 'teams must be kept apart as they are from the same pool/country' bollocks

Everyone in the hat, draw them out. 2 legs per tie apart from the final.

[papereyes]

Anyway, I always wonder how you can call the PL the best league in the world when their UEFA cup entrants [supposedly the next best teams] get beaten by Hamburg (twice), CSKA Moscow, Shaktar Donetsk, Braga, Wolfsburg, Udinese, Standard Liege and MSK Zilina. It is hardly the great and the good of European football there.

UEFA cup is now an all-Ukrainian semi and an all-German semi.

I believe it is only Richard Keys & chums that actually believes the Premier league to be the best in the world.

There's enough examples on here.

It should just be a knockout competition from the start..

No seeding, no 'teams must be kept apart as they are from the same pool/country' bollocks

Everyone in the hat, draw them out. 2 legs per tie apart from the final.

I genuinely don't think that would help - it is all about the money

[TBM]

The 1 thing i dont agree with is, 3rd place teams being put into the UEFA cup - if you dont make the top 2 then you're out - simple as!

Its unfair on the UEFA cup teams that have a long old battle to reach the final only for some Champions League team to come in and take over!

[papereyes]

The 1 thing i dont agree with is, 3rd place teams being put into the UEFA cup - if you dont make the top 2 then you're out - simple as!

Its unfair on the UEFA cup teams that have a long old battle to reach the final only for some Champions League team to come in and take over!

A bigger factor would be that the money the 3rd place team gets for getting knocked out of the CL is going to be about the same as, if not more then, any team gets for winning the UEFA cup.

[BR2]

What I would like to see is a European Cup competition again rather than a league-the early rounds are just so dull with the seeding system.
To protect the big clubs (they would need some protection to get their agreement )they could be seeded in the first round.
A further boost to both league football and the UEFA Cup would be for say the previous year's last 4 in the UEFA Cup to qualify for this new European Cup.
That means the UEFA CUP is upgraded in status leading to teams taking it more seriously and league clubs also see the alternative route into the top competition.
At the same time in the league itself,i.e in our case The Premiership,teams would treat the UEFA Cup more seriously as an alternative way of joining the big boys in the top competition and teams like Villa would take their own league AND the UEFA Cup itself more seriously.

[papereyes]

If the money involved with the UEFA cup was enough to make it a valuable trophy worth pursuing, then it would get interesting again.

You could take 10 % of the CL money and it would almost double the amount of money the UEFA cup has in total.

Oh my GOD. There. I've taken £1 million off all the richest clubs, redistributed it and you've almost certainly got more interest (and more chance to raise more money across the board) in the 'lesser' tournament.

What kills the UEFA cup is that for the bigger leagues, the gap in prize money between two league places makes fighting for the UEFA cup worth less than fighting for a few extra positions in the league, let alone CL qualification or relegation.

[papereyes]

Here we go

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/555726.pdf is from 06/07 season.

Page 6: CL prize money and revenue streams

Total Champions League prize money = E 579.6 million

Total Champions League prize money unrelated to performance = E 443.8 million (a small even share of 172.8 million and then an amount based on the market share (ie big get bigger)).

Every club gets nearly E 6 million just for getting into the CL and playing the 6 games and that doesn't include the money they might earn through gate receipts and matchday takings.

Page 8: UEFA cup prize money and revenue streams

Total UEFA Cup prize money = E 34.67 million

Total UEFA Cup prize money unrelated to performance = E 6.8 million: 170 000 Euros each for getting to the group stages

The winners that season got a shade over £6 million in total, about the same as they would have got for qualifying for the CL and then failing to win a game [and that's not including the likely ~ E 10 million they would have got as a Spanish side in the group stages ... ].

Looking at the figures, is it any wonder that 2 Premiership places, worth over £1 million, and maintaining the TV revenue of Premiership status might be a more appealing prospect.

[sheshnu]

What kills the UEFA cup is that for the bigger leagues, the gap in prize money between two league places makes fighting for the UEFA cup worth less than fighting for a few extra positions in the league, let alone CL qualification or relegation.

When Spurs rested players against Shakhtar for the Carling Cup (is it still called that?) final I suspect that was about money as well; I don't know how much the League Cup runners-up get, but my guess is it is more than the UEFA Cup quarter finalists. And do the winners still get a Europa League place?

[1960]

Thank God Chelsea won. If the scousers had won we'd be hearing European comeback kings, blah blah, wonderful supporters blah blah Hillsborough spirit blah blah, special European nights, blah blah, Rafa tactical genius blah blah for the rest of the year. With Chelsea winning the game is now over and we won't hear any of that crap.

Of course, that would all have been true, but continue to post anti-Liverpool drivel, as many of the fans on here for whom Chelsea or United is their second team continue to do.

Thankfully most neutral fans, such as Reading supporters on here, can enjoy the tie for what it was. Some brilliant football, cracking goals, Chelsea turning Liverpool over at Anfield , Liverpool coming back from the dead twice, goalkeeping calamities on both sides, and no shortage of quality, particularly from Chelsea for 20 minutes or so in last night's second half.

Great stuff.

I completely agree with your last paragraph, but I don't have the "second team" you accuse me of. My Mum comes from Battersea and my Dad is a Berkshire boy, so I consider myself a proud southerner. As such I will always support a southern team*, eg Chelsea, Arsenal and even Spurs, against northern sides, especially those ones with a whiff of arrogance and a host of glory-hunting followers. You know the two I mean.

* Except West Ham of course, obviously

[papereyes]

What kills the UEFA cup is that for the bigger leagues, the gap in prize money between two league places makes fighting for the UEFA cup worth less than fighting for a few extra positions in the league, let alone CL qualification or relegation.

When Spurs rested players against Shakhtar for the Carling Cup (is it still called that?) final I suspect that was about money as well; I don't know how much the League Cup runners-up get, but my guess is it is more than the UEFA Cup quarter finalists. And do the winners still get a Europa League place?

It's not much and only the semifinalists get anything.

Both FA And Carling cups give a decent whack for televised games (and again - why always show United, why not show the potential giant killing)

This table is from 06/07

Note the sheer size of the European money drop off.

ManUtd------30.58m 28.9m 2.95m 62.92m**
Chelsea------30.97m 26.4m 3.27m 60.15m**
Liverpool----28.44m 26.0m 0.27m 54.71m*
Arsenal------28.60m 13.90m 1.63m 44.14m
Tottenham--27.21m 2.0m 1.34m 30.55m
Everton------25.55m xx 0.12m 25.67m
Bolton--------24.63m xx 0.48m 25.11m
Reading------23.64m xx 0.78m 24.42m
Portsmouth----23.15m xx 0.33m 23.47m
Blackburn-----22.24m 0.8m 1.64m 24.68m
AstonVilla-----22.23m xx 0.27m 22.20m
Middlesbrough-20.77m xx 1.07m 21.84m
Newcastle------21.21m 1.0m 0.27m 22.48m
ManCity--------21.37m xx 1.02m 22.39m
WestHam------20.71m 0.1m 0.18m 20.99m
Fulham--------20.26m xx 0.52m 20.78m
Wigan--------18.58m xx 0.12m 18.70m
SheffUtd------18.00m xx 0.12m 18.12m
Charlton------18.00m xx 0.12m 18.12m
Watford------17.02m xx 0.96m 17.98m

[The whole year inn]

Remove the seeding from the CL and that would go some way to correcting the above