A bit worrying

[Behindu]

Letters, books etc. never existed?!

I can't wait to read your 400 page opus on the failings of Reading Football Club !!

[Schards#2]

Woodcote Royal wrote earlier in the thread......

But keep posting, Schards, things could be quiet on the work front for the next few weeks and this is becoming more entertaining with every passing sellout

You'll be sure to point out all of these sold out matches won't you Woodcote?

After 0 non sell outs of home tickets out of 19 Premeirship games last season, we now have 3 non sell outs of home tickets out of 4 Premiership games this season.

Will the blinkered finally accept that demand has fallen?

Don't hold your breath.

[RoyalBlue]

Letters, books etc. never existed?!

I can't wait to read your 400 page opus on the failings of Reading Football Club !!

That sort of things been written plenty of times before by management gurus and if some of the business management at RFC bothered to read them there might be a few less failings!

I'm sorry, but I will take a lot of convincing that some of those employed by RFC would be able to hold down a job in a real business (IMO football is not a real business) where customers didn't keep returning through a ludicrous level of blind loyalty.

[RG30]

Why's everyone so surprised? We've never traditonally had big crowds but we've slowly seen a rise in average attendances since our Madejski Stadium move and now we'll see an accurate figure of where we stand. And if the number of empty seats forces the club to rethink the pricing structure for ST/Matchday prices with a result of a decrease in prices then I'll be pretty chuffed (though I don't hold out much hope).

And yes we should still go ahead with Phase 1 of the redevelopment (up to 30,00). It will enable us to get more hospitality in the stadium (whether right or wrong it's one way the club has to push on). It allows us to give away fans more tickets which makes sense for 6 or 7 teams and we can hopefully see flexible pricing structure.

Credit to the club, they sold more tickets yesterday as a result of a waived membership fee than I thought they would and hopefully we'll see a bigger gate for Derby, though the concern for Tuesday night has to be the number of away fans in the home ends. I expect plenty of complaints on this board after the game.

[Woodcote Royal]

Woodcote Royal wrote earlier in the thread......

But keep posting, Schards, things could be quiet on the work front for the next few weeks and this is becoming more entertaining with every passing sellout

You'll be sure to point out all of these sold out matches won't you Woodcote?

After 0 non sell outs of home tickets out of 19 Premeirship games last season, we now have 3 non sell outs of home tickets out of 4 Premiership games this season.

Will the blinkered finally accept that demand has fallen?

Don't hold your breath.

Oh dear

So, the previous corresponding fixture attracted 21,954 but only 21,379 turned up yesterday and, therefore, in the world inhabited by Terry and June, this represents a drop in demand of 575 since last season, which stands as proof that any expansion to the stadium is premature.

Back in the real world, where many fans have tried time and again to explain that this matter really isn’t that simple, many would have been impressed, given all the circumstances, at just how healthy yesterday’s attendance was.

If, as you maintain, last seasons fixture was a home sellout, and given that there were no more than 300? Wigan fans yesterday (meaning they must have brought at least as many last time) surely this means also that there were only a few hundred spare home seats for our least attractive fixture of the entire league programme

So, even forgetting all the other factors at work here, why would anyone in their right mind still insist that this proves we should not expand our stadium sooner rather than later?

Again, back in the real world, if we can almost sellout home tickets for Wigan, surely this means that revenue is going to be lost even with our current fan base, leaving negligible scope to increase it unless the builders get to work poste haste.

However, none of the above (and sorry everyone else for the length of this post) even scratches the surface when it comes to dealing with the “missing 575â€

[working class hero]

if the number of empty seats forces the club to rethink the pricing structure for ST/Matchday prices with a result of a decrease in prices then I'll be pretty chuffed

Given some of our management decisions it would not surprise me to see prices raised to ensure revenue does not drop.....

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

I was gobsmacked to see 21000+ yesterday.

We were 18th and playing somewhere between awful and average - our last home game was a bit of a humiliation, our last game was a game which we would have wanted to win; and, of course, it was Wigan.

Tends to suggest that unless the arse falls out of our season, 21000+ may well be as low as it goes.

[Schards#2]

The longest post in the world won't take away the ranks of empty home blue seats that weren't there at any game last season and have been there at each of the last three games this.

They say more than any amount of words can.

[The 17 Bus]

The longest post in the world won't take away the ranks of empty home blue seats that weren't there at any game last season and have been there at each of the last three games this.

They say more than any amount of words can.

So it looks like more folk are paying for seats but not attending then? Something does not add up here at all.

1st 4 games last season attended by 96,070 spectators,
1st 4 games this season attended by 91756 spectators, a drop of 4314 in total, a fall in demand, or different circumstances Schards?

and if different circumstances would you halt the extension to the East if we stay up?

Time to get away from the silly debate and see the real picture, for all of us.

[Schards#2]

The longest post in the world won't take away the ranks of empty home blue seats that weren't there at any game last season and have been there at each of the last three games this.

They say more than any amount of words can.

So it looks like more folk are paying for seats but not attending then? Something does not add up here at all.

1st 4 games last season attended by 96,070 spectators,
1st 4 games this season attended by 91756 spectators, a drop of 4314 in total, a fall in demand, or different circumstances Schards?

and if different circumstances would you halt the extension to the East if we stay up?

Time to get away from the silly debate and see the real picture, for all of us.

Ok, i'll put the argument again although a certain section of posters won't actually read it.

It's not just that there are empty seats, it's that many of the games that sold out last season sold out well before the day suggesting many more seats COULD have been sold. Therefore, whilst all the empty seats demonstrate beyond any reasonable dispute that there has been A drop in demand, they don't accurately reflect the full extent of the drop.

Furthermore, the drop in away uptake by Reading fans also demonstrate a drop in demand for the product of Premiership football in Reading.

My opinion is that many fans from last year came because they believed this may be our only ever season in the premiership and now that it isn't, there is not the mystique and attraction that surrounds games against the like of the big four as there was last year.

Add to that, the fact that a high percentage of our fan base is relatively new to the club and I believe these will be more fickle than the diehards. My opinion is that, because of all of this, even if success wise the club stands still, the demand for tickets will fall. I also believe we won't stand still but will be less successful leading to a further drop.

In many fans eyes, last season was unique, there is no evidence crowds can be maintained even if we consolodate as a mid table premiership side. Until there is that evidence, I don't think we should expand.

If we do sell out more often than not despite not being as successful as last year then the extention is more compelling, I just feel the club needs to be sure that last season (and the Championship winning season) do not represent a high water mark as (unlike the likes of Sunderland or Sheff Wed) we have no history of attracting big crowds consistently, previously.

[Rawlie19]

The few hundred odd spare seats yesterday were taken up by Koreans last season. Liam's family isn't that big.

[The 17 Bus]

Some good points Schards, but history suggests that clubs increase gates in the Prem, Charlton did, Blackburn did, FFS even Wigan have. Watford did (in the past) and many others, we cannot unless we have a bigger ground, I can see no reason to wait, the cost of producing the seats is not as high as some think and can be paid for quickly, hence better income for the club sooner.

Add to that the Corporate business, not only on match days and it is win win, even should we go down demand could be higher than it was previously at Champ level.

[Woodcote Royal]

The longest post in the world won't take away the ranks of empty home blue seats that weren't there at any game last season and have been there at each of the last three games this.

They say more than any amount of words can.

So it looks like more folk are paying for seats but not attending then? Something does not add up here at all.

1st 4 games last season attended by 96,070 spectators,
1st 4 games this season attended by 91756 spectators, a drop of 4314 in total, a fall in demand, or different circumstances Schards?

and if different circumstances would you halt the extension to the East if we stay up?

Time to get away from the silly debate and see the real picture, for all of us.

Ok, i'll put the argument again although a certain section of posters won't actually read it.

It's not just that there are empty seats, it's that many of the games that sold out last season sold out well before the day suggesting many more seats COULD have been sold. Therefore, whilst all the empty seats demonstrate beyond any reasonable dispute that there has been A drop in demand, they don't accurately reflect the full extent of the drop.

Furthermore, the drop in away uptake by Reading fans also demonstrate a drop in demand for the product of Premiership football in Reading.

My opinion is that many fans from last year came because they believed this may be our only ever season in the premiership and now that it isn't, there is not the mystique and attraction that surrounds games against the like of the big four as there was last year.

Add to that, the fact that a high percentage of our fan base is relatively new to the club and I believe these will be more fickle than the diehards. My opinion is that, because of all of this, even if success wise the club stands still, the demand for tickets will fall. I also believe we won't stand still but will be less successful leading to a further drop.

In many fans eyes, last season was unique, there is no evidence crowds can be maintained even if we consolodate as a mid table premiership side. Until there is that evidence, I don't think we should expand.

If we do sell out more often than not despite not being as successful as last year then the extention is more compelling, I just feel the club needs to be sure that last season (and the Championship winning season) do not represent a high water mark as (unlike the likes of Sunderland or Sheff Wed) we have no history of attracting big crowds consistently, previously.

We had just a few hundred seats left yesterday for a fixture that saw our lowest league attendance last season, even though we started the day in the relegation zone ....................if any proof was required before expansion, this was it.

However, waiting for concrete proof would be ridiculuous given that we have the money and there's no risk attached to expanding to 30k even if we're relegated.

PS. How the fcuk could new fans be more fickle than the ones we already have

[Huntley & Palmer]

However, waiting for concrete proof would be ridiculuous given that we have the money and there's no risk attached to expanding to 30k even if we're relegated.

Will there is the risk of coughing X million to build it if we can't put bums on those seats. The money could be used better elsewhere if we are relegated

[Woodcote Royal]

We could have spent it in other ways so far but haven't.

My money is on the man who built this club "brick by brick" making sure that, in the worst case scenario, we have at least one legacy from a short stay in the Prem................................a 30k stadium.

He's going to make sure we have something to show for all the money that's pouring into this club and won't allow every last penny to go on transfer fees and players wages.

Whilst I'm sure any expansion to 38k would be put on hold, extending the East giving us an extra 6000? seats and vastly increased corporate facilities would make perfect sense.

It would make us better equipped for a return to the top flight whilst greatly increasing our ability to cash in when we have big matches in the Championship.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Is the problem not the fact that prices would have to be dropped considerably to be able to entice anyone into taking up these extra seats and corporate areas to such an extent that we would lose money? Which came first, the team or the stadium? If we refuse to invest in the players wage structure to sustain them at a level equivalent to those of the players around them, then how can we expect to not spend if we get relegated. It will be a far harder task stopping our prized assets leaving for other teams, let alone finding anyone that wants to play for us at a lower level.

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Maybe Ive forgotten this point, but what exactly is wrong with housing a 21,000 crowd in a 30,000 seater stadium?

[Stranded]

Maybe Ive forgotten this point, but what exactly is wrong with housing a 21,000 crowd in a 30,000 seater stadium?

Blue seats look crap.

[Woodcote Royal]

Is the problem not the fact that prices would have to be dropped considerably to be able to entice anyone into taking up these extra seats and corporate areas to such an extent that we would lose money? Which came first, the team or the stadium? If we refuse to invest in the players wage structure to sustain them at a level equivalent to those of the players around them, then how can we expect to not spend if we get relegated. It will be a far harder task stopping our prized assets leaving for other teams, let alone finding anyone that wants to play for us at a lower level.

Unless things change drastically, I don't believe we are in an "either, or" position regarding investment on the pitch or infra structure.

As things stand, net spending has been negligible in Premiership terms with the likely departures of players like Shorey set to reap the kind of windfalls we've so far struggled to spend.

On your other point, I think we desperately need the kind of spare capacity for fixtures like Wigan that would allow us to return to promotions like Kids for a Quid without fear of losing full price sales.

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Maybe Ive forgotten this point, but what exactly is wrong with housing a 21,000 crowd in a 30,000 seater stadium?

Blue seats look crap.

What if we could use those blue seats, to say, allow ST holders to change their seat at the end of the season; or to increase our crowds in those few high profile games, or hold kid for a quid, or offer the stadium to hold other big matches, both football or rugby, or to help control the price of a ST; or maybe, just maybe use them to house new fans in a couple of year's times?

Who cares if we cant sell the stadium out week in, week out - we're not that far off.