Accounts

[Green]

[Royal Rother]

another one for the OP - do we know our carried forward losses then?

I'd say a £2.3m loss is a good effort by the club & it's in pretty good health. Especially given the CAT A investment & the clear spike in player wages.

C/f losses are £30.5m

[Royal Rother]

To the OP - do you have the long term liabilities and director's loan numbers on there too? Would be interested to see what those are...

I don't know about Directors Loans but Other Long Term Finance is £40.2m (up from £39.7m)

Also, interestingly Bank Loans are £4,501,194 (up from £26,934) so we are able to use bank loans again after they all had to repaid a few years ago.
And this offset by a similar reduction in short term finance, now £5.1m from £9.1m (Directors short term Loans?)

The bank loan is "only" £1.75m (new loan taken out in the year), rest being overdraft.

[Elm Park]

another one for the OP - do we know our carried forward losses then?

I'd say a £2.3m loss is a good effort by the club & it's in pretty good health. Especially given the CAT A investment & the clear spike in player wages.

Frustrating OP isn't it - he claims no inside information but on the other hand has offered no indication of source or what other info (if any) was given.

Sorry no insider info, information picked from a credit checking website after the accounts were filed at Companies House on the 27th January.

[P!ssed Off]

1Behave!! A £4m sign on fee?! No chance. IF he was on £53k pw, that would mean almost an additional year & half's salary. 2 Doubt even the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal etc would pay that sort of money out.

Honestly where do people get this sh1t from?

1Not that unbelievable.
He was a high profile free transfer, contrary to the title they rarely move for 'free'.
2A team like the ones you've mentioned would think absolutely nothing of a £4m signing on fee if they were getting a 1st team regular in with no transfer fee involved.

Sorry to p1ss on your parade but you do realise I mentioned Spurs, Liverpool & Arsenal yes? I.e. not a mid table championship club with a relatively prudent chairman.

Err yeah.
That's why I wrote "a team like the ones you've mentioned".
I've numbered it now to help you follow the conversation.

And in what sense were Reading a 'mid table championship club' when they signed Pogrebnyak?

[3points]

.

Behave!! A £4m sign on fee?! No chance. IF he was on £53k pw, that would mean almost an additional year & half's salary.

Over a 4 year period (the length of his contract), a 4m signing on fee is worth 20k per week. If Pog is on wages of 35k (which many would think is not unrealistic), he then got, effectively, an additional 20k per week, plus his goal bonuses, etc and his flat in London and that is how you can get to the original rumoured 60k per week. You have to remember that other clubs wanted him but no-one would match what Reading offered him. If I had said we paid a 4m transfer fee for him you wouldn't have questioned that. As someone else stated, free transfers are not free. That's why players let their contracts run down if they can as they get big signing on fees.

[3points]

A bit more detail if anyone interested

Income
2013 2012
Media & Broadcasting £43.7m £5.1m
Matchday income £9.3m £5.6m
Commercial income £5.2m £3.1m
Rugby commission £0.6m £0.6m
Other £0.4m £0.3m
Total £59.3 £14.7

Therefore, being in the Prem was worth an extra £45m for the season (nearly all TV money). Operating costs went up from £36.9m to £62.4m (player numbers increased from 42 to 53) but this does include the amortisation of player transfer fees. So, in 2012 RFC made a loss of about £22m but only £2m in 2013.

In terms of the club's debt, it hasn't really gone up as the the loss is only a couple of million. It's moved around a bit (more is now owed to TSI than SJM) and the club also has deferred transfer fees of £2.8m still to pay. TSI owed £19.3m, SJM (via RFC Holdings) £9.8m.

We received £3.5m for Mariappa and Kebe

[MmmMonsterMunch]

.

Behave!! A £4m sign on fee?! No chance. IF he was on £53k pw, that would mean almost an additional year & half's salary.

Over a 4 year period (the length of his contract), a 4m signing on fee is worth 20k per week. If Pog is on wages of 35k (which many would think is not unrealistic), he then got, effectively, an additional 20k per week, plus his goal bonuses, etc and his flat in London and that is how you can get to the original rumoured 60k per week. You have to remember that other clubs wanted him but no-one would match what Reading offered him. If I had said we paid a 4m transfer fee for him you wouldn't have questioned that. As someone else stated, free transfers are not free. That's why players let their contracts run down if they can as they get big signing on fees.

I get how it works but I still dispute we would have paid that much.....

Thank god everyone likes him again eh?

[MmmMonsterMunch]

A bit more detail if anyone interested

Income
2013 2012
Media & Broadcasting £43.7m £5.1m
Matchday income £9.3m £5.6m
Commercial income £5.2m £3.1m
Rugby commission £0.6m £0.6m
Other £0.4m £0.3m
Total £59.3 £14.7

Therefore, being in the Prem was worth an extra £45m for the season (nearly all TV money). Operating costs went up from £36.9m to £62.4m (player numbers increased from 42 to 53) but this does include the amortisation of player transfer fees. So, in 2012 RFC made a loss of about £22m but only £2m in 2013.

In terms of the club's debt, it hasn't really gone up as the the loss is only a couple of million. It's moved around a bit (more is now owed to TSI than SJM) and the club also has deferred transfer fees of £2.8m still to pay. TSI owed £19.3m, SJM (via RFC Holdings) £9.8m.

We received £3.5m for Mariappa and Kebe

We only get £600k from Irish? That's sh1t - would have expected that to be higher actually.

[Jackson Corner]

Would love to know what QPR 's figures were?

[Cypry]

As far as the increase in fixed assets goes, most of that will probably be around the academy and facilities at Hogwood. There've had to be massive upgrades at Hogwood to meet the CAT1 requirements, and big developments around the dome as well (lot's of new buildings, and a new 3G pitch which cost in excess of £1M alone.....).


As for the wage bill, people need to start looking outside of the first team for wages, some of the youngsters are on £2k a week, and I'm talking U18's here....unfortunately that's what we need to pay to compete with the other CAT1 academies....
Add in the coaches (didn't I read we have best part of 50 coaches in the academy now?), management team, groundsmen etc and you can see why it mounts up....

[melonhead]

In terms of the club's debt, it hasn't really gone up
as the the loss is only a couple of million.

[Royal Biscuitman]

In terms of the club's debt, it hasn't really gone up
as the the loss is only a couple of million.

Profit and Loss does not take into account assets, liabilities.

The debt is a liability

There are examples of companies making huge profits that end up going into administration due to overtrading - They don't have any actual cash in the bank to pay debts. Cash and Profit are not the same, I could buy £100 of stock and sell for £500 making a profit of £400..... but until the customer pays me the £500 I have negative cash and can not pay the supplier his £100.

[Green]

There are examples of companies making huge profits that end up going into administration due to overtrading

Go on then...

[Royal Biscuitman]

There are examples of companies making huge profits that end up going into administration due to overtrading

Go on then...

Red Letter days - Rachel Elnaugh of Dragons Den spend all the cash on new corporate headquarters and didn't have any cash left to pay the companies supplying the experiences. She sold up on the cheap to Theo and Peter, then quit Dragons Den in shame.

[Green]

Doesn't sound like quite the same thing. That sounds like spending too much on corporate HQ to me.

I'm not doubting you, there must be examples, but I'd be eager to hear what they are and why the administr8rs couldn't just be a bit patient.

[Royal Biscuitman]

Doesn't sound like quite the same thing. That sounds like spending too much on corporate HQ to me.

I'm not doubting you, there must be examples, but I'd be eager to hear what they are and why the administr8rs couldn't just be a bit patient.

I'm just saying that making a profit does not mean you are in good shape as you need cash, not profit to pay suppliers.

[Green]

Yep, that point wasn't lost on me.

[El Diablo]

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/sou ... ual-losses



Reading FC slash annual losses Last updated: 30th Jan 2014 at 07:54am
Keyword tags: Anton Zingarevich,Reading,Sir John Madejski inShare.0Reading FC have slashed annual pre-tax losses by more than £9m following a surge in broadcasting and matchday income.

The Championship side posted a loss before tax of £2.3m in the year to 30 June 2013, down from £11.7m a year earlier. Operating loss was also cut from £21.8m to £2.9m.

The upturn in the Royals' financial performance stemmed from their promotion to the Premier League at the end of the 2011/12 season.

And despite suffering relegation back to the Championship in May 2013, the one season in the top flight helped to increase turnover to £59.3m in 2012/13, up a whopping £44m compared with the previous season.

Of the turnover figure, Reading generated £47.8m from media and broadcasting rights, £9.3m from matchday income, and £5m from commercial deals. Commission from London Irish rugby matches at the Madejski Stadium totalled £597,000.

However, the promotion increased staff costs by £20m to £46m as the playing squad increased from 42 to 53. Players in included Adrian Mariappa from Watford, who has since departed for Crystal Palace, and Chris Gunter from Nottingham Forrest.

Writing in the club's annual report, chairman Sir John Madejski said: "We have built a squad of players with significant strength in depth and, as a club, we continue to grow, we are positive and we strive to attain more long-lasting success both on and off the field."

Since the year end, Reading have exchanged contracts with the Royal Merchant Navy School Foundation to set up a new training ground at a 120-acre site in Wokingham. The land will become home to their first team and academy.

Reading are majority owned by Anton Zingarevich who agreed a takeover deal in 2012. However, although he was due to buy Madejski's remaining 49 per cent interest by September 2013, the purchase has still not been completed.

Madejski owned Reading for 22 years before agreeing to sell a majority stake to Thames Sports Investment, led by Zingarevich.

[Nameless]

Re the income from London Irish.
They play about 20 games so 600k income is 30k per game. Presumably we make money of megastore sales and commission on ticket sales but that won't be a huge amount. Considering they only get 5 or 6,000 per game they are paying quite a chunk to us for the use of the stadium. Presumably their contribution towards the pitch is additional to the figures quoted, and is a very useful bit of cost saving for us .