Can anyone explain why the club is in financial difficulty?

[WoodleyRoyal]

or revenue needs increasing, starting off with stadium naming right being sold, when does the Waitrose sponsor deal end? also noticed at the norwich game that the concrete walls behind the disabled areas behind both goals and the hoardings above the west stand where the media sit are all bare have we lost a sponsor? cant remember what was there, was it quintiles?

[PieEater]

Operating expenses fell from £62.5m to £49.3m. Of this wages fell from £46m in 2013 to £34.5m in 2014, though player numbers remained the same at 53, though management and coaching staff number increased from 81 to 102 in 2014.

How does this figure reported for the club relate to the £13.5m wages bill reported for RFC Holdings? Do the costs just transfer and then come back so we can ignore the £13.5m figure?

[Ian Royal]

or revenue needs increasing, starting off with stadium naming right being sold, when does the Waitrose sponsor deal end? also noticed at the norwich game that the concrete walls behind the disabled areas behind both goals and the hoardings above the west stand where the media sit are all bare have we lost a sponsor? cant remember what was there, was it quintiles?

There is no way we'll get £5m a year through that, let alone the £15m we'd need.

[Forbury Lion]

Looking on the positive side, £53m of debt isn't an amount anyone would want to write off so the chances of those owed money forcing the club into administration are probably slim.

Regarding Financial fair play - which RFC holdings/assets are included within the club entity for which revenues count as part of the calculations? - Is the hotel owned by the new club owners? If not, I guess the hotel revenues are excluded..... maybe under SJM's original vision he would own the club and the hotel and FFP would work on the combination of the two revenue streams?

[WoodleyRoyal]

or revenue needs increasing, starting off with stadium naming right being sold, when does the Waitrose sponsor deal end? also noticed at the norwich game that the concrete walls behind the disabled areas behind both goals and the hoardings above the west stand where the media sit are all bare have we lost a sponsor? cant remember what was there, was it quintiles?

There is no way we'll get £5m a year through that, let alone the £15m we'd need.

Agreed, and i never said it would, but it would "be a start".

[multisync1830]

Looking on the positive side, £53m of debt isn't an amount anyone would want to write off so the chances of those owed money forcing the club into administration are probably slim.

Regarding Financial fair play - which RFC holdings/assets are included within the club entity for which revenues count as part of the calculations? - Is the hotel owned by the new club owners? If not, I guess the hotel revenues are excluded..... maybe under SJM's original vision he would own the club and the hotel and FFP would work on the combination of the two revenue streams?

The hotel is being sold to Sasima Srivikorn believed to be in conjunction with Empire Asia Investments . They are going to keep the M&C franchise running so no staff redundancies or rebranding to their other hotels (Hilton etc) at this stage. SJM keeps his flat for the foreseeable future

EAI is also the link to RFC plot 1,2,3 Ltd via Taweesuk Srisumrid as a director

http://www.theempireasia.com/The_People.html
who list:
Mr. Pairoj Piempongsant
Founder and Principal Advisor
Empire Asia Group Co., Ltd.

My hunch is the Empire Asia stadium and hotel at some point may make sense. The next 5 years will be interesting

[3points]

Operating expenses fell from £62.5m to £49.3m. Of this wages fell from £46m in 2013 to £34.5m in 2014, though player numbers remained the same at 53, though management and coaching staff number increased from 81 to 102 in 2014.

How does this figure reported for the club relate to the £13.5m wages bill reported for RFC Holdings? Do the costs just transfer and then come back so we can ignore the £13.5m figure?

Without being fully up to speed and on the inside I suspect it is part of the same number. As the club was required by Holdings, this £13.5m will be the wages (including those for Holdings and the hotel) for the period after Holdings re-took full control of the football club. This is just a consolidated number. When Holdings only held 49% then the wages and costs are not consolidated into the Holdings accounts.

Hope that makes sense (sorry lots of accountant speak there).

[Elm Park Kid]

Ah - so wages are £35m - not £13.5m. That makes a lot more sense.

You've got to say that the team's quality for that money is poor value considering that teams at the bottom of the championship are operating on wages bills of little more than £5m.

[Nameless]

Ah - so wages are £35m - not £13.5m. That makes a lot more sense.

You've got to say that the team's quality for that money is poor value considering that teams at the bottom of the championship are operating on wages bills of little more than £5m.

Most of our wage bill is going on players who don't contribute to the side though. I suspect if you looked at the wage bill of our 'active' squad it would be much lower, although not down to £5 million. Wigan's wages will be high, Blackpool's will be low because they don't have any players !

[Brum Royal]

What are the RFC Plot 1,2,3 items?

[From Despair To Where?]

What are the RFC Plot 1,2,3 items?

The club are holding them in storage because Anton Zingarevich lost them between July 2012 and September 2013

[melonhead]

they club have bought three allotments for use by the players and staff

[Angry Shed Sex]

they club have bought three allotments for use by the players and staff

They're used by the players to grow the veg for the hotel restaurants.

[MagaStrzy]

I've just checked Rfc Prop Co Limited in a UK online business directiry: http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/rfc-plot ... -09315720/. You have history of the company's directors here as well as the firm's filings featuring change of the company's name, incorporation's details and its officers.

TAWEESUK JACK SRISUMRID 919119429 Registered Address: Madejski Stadium Junction 11 M4, Reading, Berkshire, United Kingdom, RG2 0F

Taweesuk Srisumrid holds 6 appointments at 6 active companies, has resigned from 1 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Taweesuk began their first appointment at the age of 42. Their longest current appointment spans 0 years and 3 months at RFC BEARWOOD LIMITED. The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Taweesuk holds a current appointment equals £700,227, with a combined total current assets value of £5,572,591 and total current liabilities of £59,377,984. Roles associated with Taweesuk Srisumrid within the recorded businesses include: Director

Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429

IE RFC in all it's guises is around 53m in the hole. The debt hasn't been wiped out just transferred and underwritten by others.

the real reason for the purchase and their only chance to recoup that debt?

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/09315 ... -structure

this is very interesting unless it hasn't been updated properly or they bought/inherited TSI as part of the deal?

Ultimate parent company Ultimate Parent Name Company Number THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD #0077598

RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Subsidiary companies
Subsidiary Name Company Number
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED 09316837
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED 09316855

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429


Credit Safe:
RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Holding Company THE READING FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
Ownership Status Wholly Owned
Ultimate Holding Company THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD

Group structure Full
Company Name
THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENT...
THE READING FOOTBALL C...
READING WOMEN'S FOOT...
RFC PLOT 1 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED

[strap]

I've just checked Rfc Prop Co Limited in a UK online business directiry: http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/rfc-plot ... -09315720/. You have history of the company's directors here as well as the firm's filings featuring change of the company's name, incorporation's details and its officers.

TAWEESUK JACK SRISUMRID 919119429 Registered Address: Madejski Stadium Junction 11 M4, Reading, Berkshire, United Kingdom, RG2 0F

Taweesuk Srisumrid holds 6 appointments at 6 active companies, has resigned from 1 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Taweesuk began their first appointment at the age of 42. Their longest current appointment spans 0 years and 3 months at RFC BEARWOOD LIMITED. The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Taweesuk holds a current appointment equals £700,227, with a combined total current assets value of £5,572,591 and total current liabilities of £59,377,984. Roles associated with Taweesuk Srisumrid within the recorded businesses include: Director

Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429

IE RFC in all it's guises is around 53m in the hole. The debt hasn't been wiped out just transferred and underwritten by others.

the real reason for the purchase and their only chance to recoup that debt?

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/09315 ... -structure

this is very interesting unless it hasn't been updated properly or they bought/inherited TSI as part of the deal?

Ultimate parent company Ultimate Parent Name Company Number THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD #0077598

RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Subsidiary companies
Subsidiary Name Company Number
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED 09316837
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED 09316855

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429


Credit Safe:
RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Holding Company THE READING FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
Ownership Status Wholly Owned
Ultimate Holding Company THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD

Group structure Full
Company Name
THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENT...
THE READING FOOTBALL C...
READING WOMEN'S FOOT...
RFC PLOT 1 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED

In the time honoured fashion I'd like to say f*** off newbie, but this is too serious a matter for that nonsense.

I am no Chartered Accountant, but it does look as though you are correct re. the debt. I can't remember if the Thais were alleged to have paid off the debt, or merely taken it over. Would seem the latter. Which presumably means we are only "solvent" (and I use the term loosely!) until the Thais get fed up and move on.

The mention of TSI is also worrying on the surface, although I suspect this was the name of the overall company that they effectively bought off the Russian.

Hopefully the development of RFC Plots 1 to 3 will eventually wipe out the debt? Although knowing how developers work that will be highly unlikely!

Someone should write a book of the last 35 years of the ownership of the club. Wouldn't be a best seller, but would be of immense interest to some.

[Nameless]

Strap you are commenting on a year old thread that had already been described as out of date, and a fair amount of explanation given.
I think the club structure is now pretty different, but it can hardly be a surprise that the debt didn't just magically disappear. I'd be concerned if new owners just waved a wand and threw £59 million away. We need to see the Thai's produce a plan to manage the debt, which they are doing with REP. whether that succeeds is as much open to debate as whether we succeed on the pitch, but at least there is a plan to generate significant income.

[Elm Park Kid]

I've just checked Rfc Prop Co Limited in a UK online business directiry: http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/rfc-plot ... -09315720/. You have history of the company's directors here as well as the firm's filings featuring change of the company's name, incorporation's details and its officers.

TAWEESUK JACK SRISUMRID 919119429 Registered Address: Madejski Stadium Junction 11 M4, Reading, Berkshire, United Kingdom, RG2 0F

Taweesuk Srisumrid holds 6 appointments at 6 active companies, has resigned from 1 companies and held 0 appointments at 0 dissolved companies. Taweesuk began their first appointment at the age of 42. Their longest current appointment spans 0 years and 3 months at RFC BEARWOOD LIMITED. The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Taweesuk holds a current appointment equals £700,227, with a combined total current assets value of £5,572,591 and total current liabilities of £59,377,984. Roles associated with Taweesuk Srisumrid within the recorded businesses include: Director

Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429

IE RFC in all it's guises is around 53m in the hole. The debt hasn't been wiped out just transferred and underwritten by others.

the real reason for the purchase and their only chance to recoup that debt?

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/09315 ... -structure

this is very interesting unless it hasn't been updated properly or they bought/inherited TSI as part of the deal?

Ultimate parent company Ultimate Parent Name Company Number THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD #0077598

RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Subsidiary companies
Subsidiary Name Company Number
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED 09316837
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED 09316855

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/919119429


Credit Safe:
RFC-PLOT-1-LIMITED
Holding Company THE READING FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
Ownership Status Wholly Owned
Ultimate Holding Company THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENTS LTD

Group structure Full
Company Name
THAMES SPORTS INVESTMENT...
THE READING FOOTBALL C...
READING WOMEN'S FOOT...
RFC PLOT 1 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 2 LIMITED
RFC PLOT 3 LIMITED

In the time honoured fashion I'd like to say f*** off newbie, but this is too serious a matter for that nonsense.

I am no Chartered Accountant, but it does look as though you are correct re. the debt. I can't remember if the Thais were alleged to have paid off the debt, or merely taken it over. Would seem the latter. Which presumably means we are only "solvent" (and I use the term loosely!) until the Thais get fed up and move on.

The mention of TSI is also worrying on the surface, although I suspect this was the name of the overall company that they effectively bought off the Russian.

Hopefully the development of RFC Plots 1 to 3 will eventually wipe out the debt? Although knowing how developers work that will be highly unlikely!

Someone should write a book of the last 35 years of the ownership of the club. Wouldn't be a best seller, but would be of immense interest to some.

The information in the quotes is from last year's accounts, before the Thais took over. So we don't know exactly what RFC's debt position is.

People get a bit too concerned about this: if the club is privately owned then in a way it doesn't really matter whether it's 100m in the red or £100m in the black. What matters is the financial position of the owners, their commitment to the 'business' and whether it is making or losing money as an ongoing concern. The exact debt level of the club is largely an accounting issue and will be manipulated by the owners for tax reasons. If the club is sold then the debt is simply matched against the value of assets to come up with a sale price. It doesn't impact the security of the club, unless the owners can't finance the debt.

[West Stand Man]

Syrely they would have had to pump in £50+million if they were to clear the debt. That would have been a significant breach of FFP, even the new rules?

[Nameless]

If the debt was to them then they could just write it off, like Abrahamovic and Fernandes have done and the Bolton guy has said he will do.

[tidus_mi2]

Writing off debt does not fall foul of FFP, neither does overall debt, to breech FFP would require to lose more than the set out figures, which in it's current state is £39m over 3 seasons. This is why there was the whole issue with QPR because they lost shed loads more than the £9m figure or w/e it was at the time for the season, then Fernandes tried to just pay off the loss to get around it.