BFTG Millwall

[The Reverend]

We were unlucky not to come away with a point. I think we just about deserved to get the lead. Millwall were good value for levelling and getting ahead though of course we really should have had that pen at the end.

That said, that's my last away game this season.

It's boring.

It's bad enough being bored at home but at least I don't have to travel to endure it. I've done QPR, BIrmingham, Brentford and then last night. Brum was probably our best performance of the season but it's just not worth the effort for the odd decent show.

[Hound]

I think it speaks volumes that Millwall fans are saying we're the worst side to play them, including League One last season.

which is odd considering they managed a grand total of 6 shots on goal, and were a prob a poor refereeing decision away from only getting a point.

[holsgrove breaks a leg]

As I had previously posted on the match thread, it's now not only the slow ponderous football and lack of goals that is an issue, it's an alarming lack of concentration and failure to keep a clean sheet. So basically everything needs addressing at this early stage. I simply cannot understand why he persists with wing backs when Blackett and Gunter are a million miles away from being effective in that position. It also means the outside forwards are too isolated up the pitch and find themselves farting about in the middle. Far better to have a 4-2-3-1 so the wide players can run onto or receive the ball on the wing and do their thing. If JVB and Edwards are a threatening centre mid pairing then I dread to think really. We have fashioned together a squad that don't really do goal scoring, from the midfielders to the attackers he has bought, many seem to be on 4-5 max for the season given their past form.

Swift and Kelly are the nearest to bagging a few goals but in Swift we have a player in serious decline and Kelly there is a weight of expectation. Talking of Swift, it does now look increasingly alarming that Gourlay and Tevredens apparent 'success' of getting players tied down on long contracts could well come back to bite them- both an ineffectual Gunter and a declining mcleary have also been given the same treatment. Of course extending Kelly and moored contract was a good thing given they clearly have promise but the others phffff.

[Hound]

I think thats a little unfair on Swift, though his fitness record is starting to be a concern

To be honest , of all the players in our squad, he is probably the best link between midfield and attack. Also scores goals. I'd love to see him back in the side on the evidence of the last 2 games

[Snowflake Royal]

As I had previously posted on the match thread, it's now not only the slow ponderous football and lack of goals that is an issue, it's an alarming lack of concentration and failure to keep a clean sheet. So basically everything needs addressing at this early stage. I simply cannot understand why he persists with wing backs when Blackett and Gunter are a million miles away from being effective in that position. It also means the outside forwards are too isolated up the pitch and find themselves farting about in the middle. Far better to have a 4-2-3-1 so the wide players can run onto or receive the ball on the wing and do their thing. If JVB and Edwards are a threatening centre mid pairing then I dread to think really. We have fashioned together a squad that don't really do goal scoring, from the midfielders to the attackers he has bought, many seem to be on 4-5 max for the season given their past form.

Swift and Kelly are the nearest to bagging a few goals but in Swift we have a player in serious decline and Kelly there is a weight of expectation. Talking of Swift, it does now look increasingly alarming that Gourlay and Tevredens apparent 'success' of getting players tied down on long contracts could well come back to bite them- both an ineffectual Gunter and a declining mcleary have also been given the same treatment. Of course extending Kelly and moored contract was a good thing given they clearly have promise but the others phffff.

The problem with 4 at the back, is that the full backs push up as if they were wing backs, and the centre backs split, leaving a gaping hole through the middle of our half. Either that or Joey / Kelly get sucked in and end up playing the entire game between our centre backs at our D rather than anywhere that they could be productive going forward.

We also can't play with only two in midfield with the wing backs when the whole point is to pass through the thirds, we have to go two upfront and play them narrower... otherwise there's just no options to pass to in the middle and the entire team is spread out and isolated.

[Platypuss]

Edwards scores then gets outjumped for the equaliser and turned for the winner, both by an ex team mate !
No improvement here.

Why was he wearing Joey's shirt for their winner?

[Blakey's Chin]

Unbelievably predictable result, even when we we 1-0. I go into every midweek game (especially away) expecting us to loose. Stam needs to change things and quick, he simply can't keep ploughing away with this style now. We need to win games, which involves scoring goals, which involves attacking the oppositions box (with intent), and this is not happening. McCleary has lost it, good servent but he looks like he couldn't give a sh*te. Gunter is Mr Reliable, for a mid table team. I'm becoming tired of all this. I know things have been far worse in the past, but i saw the comment about how Stam set up negatively in the play off final and i coudln't agree more. I can't get over that and that fact that he's bringing that into this season, he's failed to address the hangover from it, when someone far less tactically astute in McDermott could (I'm not on the Brian loving brigade, i'm just merely pointing out Stam has not addressed issues in the right areas, e.g. off the pitch as well as on it).

I'm dreading Saturday as we never really perform live on sky. Providing a majority are fit, i'd like to see around 4/5 changes from last night.

[John Smith]

Three pages slagging off the best manager we've had in years and no mention of the absolute stonewall penalty in the last minute! Did any of you actually go to the game last night?

[NewCorkSeth]

Three pages slagging off the best manager we've had in years and no mention of the absolute stonewall penalty in the last minute! Did any of you actually go to the game last night?

It's not being mentioned for a reason. We didn't deserve a draw based on the performance and it's more the performances than the results that are agitating fans.

Yes we should have had a penalty but that would only have papered over the cracks (provided we scored it) and allowed Stam room to continue his decline. Something has to change tactically and the result against Millwall has nothing to do with it.

We play terrible football. Most nobbers wanted a line up change for this match desperately, we didn't get it and we lost because of it. I can't speak for everyone but I doubt I'm alone in saying that I don't care that we lost and I wouldn't have cared if we won. I care that a team with great potential is being mismanaged at the moment by someone I still have a lot of faith in. The fact that it's so obvious to the fans what the problem is makes the whole thing unnerving.

[John Smith]

Three pages slagging off the best manager we've had in years and no mention of the absolute stonewall penalty in the last minute! Did any of you actually go to the game last night?

It's not being mentioned for a reason. We didn't deserve a draw based on the performance and it's more the performances than the results that are agitating fans.

Yes we should have had a penalty but that would only have papered over the cracks (provided we scored it) and allowed Stam room to continue his decline. Something has to change tactically and the result against Millwall has nothing to do with it.

We play terrible football. Most nobbers wanted a line up change for this match desperately, we didn't get it and we lost because of it. I can't speak for everyone but I doubt I'm alone in saying that I don't care that we lost and I wouldn't have cared if we won. I care that a team with great potential is being mismanaged at the moment by someone I still have a lot of faith in. The fact that it's so obvious to the fans what the problem is makes the whole thing unnerving.

Come on mate, you're usually one of the better posters on here but what you've just written is complete and utter drivel: "I don't care that we lost and I wouldn't have cared if we won" what the oxf*rd? Are you a supporter? We were robbed last night with the team he put out - end of.

[Forbury Lion]

Are we missing Steven Reid's coaching input?

We may well be.

Possibly also missing our player of the season, Ali Al Habsi and our best (only?) goalscoring striker, Not that I'm knocking our current goalkeeper, but maybe AAH was keeping us in the game when we really didn't deserve to be. In which case we are weaker at the back and up front so less likely to score and more likely to concede, but it's okay as we've got loads of midfielders.

[Bunny1885]

I think it speaks volumes that Millwall fans are saying we're the worst side to play them, including League One last season.

which is odd considering they managed a grand total of 6 shots on goal, and were a prob a poor refereeing decision away from only getting a point.

It isn't odd. Just because we won doesn't mean we didn't have an off night too.

I think that's the point, that was probably our most lackluster performance of the season, but yet we came away with a win. That's football I guess - we played far better v Forest and Ipswich, yet lost those games.

Harris tries to always put out the same side, and we play a very high energy game. I think having to play two games back to back with 10 men, a high octane game against old foes Leeds and a tough trip to Preston in recent weeks has taken its toll. We looked tired.

Reading may have the same excuses, I don't know. But, I think it is fair to say that Reading are the poorest side we faced this season so far. And that includes Bolton, although that was only the second game in & they still probably had a bit of optimism and fight about them at that point.

[Royal Tezza]

Was pleased to have the opportunity to head back to Milwall last night, despite the 0-0 in January 15 under Clarke (heinous) I have great memories of wins there under McD and Atkins - the former was the day I believed we might go up in 2011/12. I live and work in (opposite sides of) South London so all good for me.

Atmosphere was really good, thought our fans were great and not too many of the try-hard little twats I hear about on twitter/on here. As usual it baffles me how one or two people can go to matches and still know so little about the game but hey-ho I guess they've never played maybe. Also there was a guy in the back row to the left hand side of the goal who had the most pathetically nasal voice I've ever heard who insisted on doing the whole "oxf*rd off you cuuuntsssss" "shit on the floor" "oxf*rd" stuff every two minutes - it was genuinely hilarious I wish I could do an impression for you all. If you are a nobber keep it up mate you were great fun but please don't ever go within 100m of any opposition fans or you I suspect you will be murdered. Only other complaint was the "how shit must you be, we're winning away chant" - this does my head in. It's OK if you're bottom of the league 3/4 of the season done but FFS we've just taken the lead in light of terrible form and need to ride it out, the players don't need to hear that twattery.

I've seen us just a few teams this season and I was pretty taken aback by just how bad it was. Our "build-up" play is so ponderous it's unreal. There's no movement. No-one seems to know where they're playing, where to make runs to or where/when to show for the ball. Our best football is playing between the GK and the defenders. After that we're stuck. I believe there are certain golden rules in football, one of them being the longer you take to advance up the pitch, the more prepared a team is to deal with it. Especially a team that are a bit basic but well organised like Milwall. I'm not advocating hoof-ball, but if it takes 3 minutes to move up the pitch with 5 yard passes or players dribbing in horizontal lines, the defenders are going to be loving life and you will find it difficult to go anywhere. This is compounded by having wide players who aren't really attackers (Blackett/Gunter), three wingers playing across the top with no real width, and no-one to aim at up front.

If you also suddenly look a bag of nerves the moment you take a 1-0 lead and fail to defend set pieces or close down shots on the edge of the box, you really are screwed and will be lucky to win any games at all. This is where we find ourselves

Mannone - Jury's out for me. I'm sure he's OK. Al-Habsi won us games though
Gunter - Anonymous, didn't do too much wrong
Illori - Hard to comment on CB's when their work is shared between three of them. Did OK, but surely culpable for the collapse
McShane - Stood out as got stuck in a bit
Moore - See Illori. Looked frustrated with the (lack of) tempo
Blackett - I just feel sorry for - he tries hard but in my view he is a CB, and maybe a left back in a 4-4-2 at a push. He should not be the furthest player forward trying to create something on the wing. I know Obita is injured but I'd rather stick Kelly or anyone there really. There shouldn't be that much defending to with 5 at the back anyway
JVB - This guy is a pretty mince footballer but has his moments and did alright. He is built for games like this as he is a bit of a headcase. One really good turn to kickoff a move that led to Beerens shooting but that's not really enough
Edwards - Goal and penalty claim aside I don't understand what this guy will bring to the team. Looks like a bog standard Champ CM who is confused by the avante garde tactics we have decided to employ. Hope he improves but looks a level below Bacuna, Evans and Kelly

I've done 8 players now and not a single one has any attacking prowess in open play...

Beerens - A 1 in 3 type winger for me. Seen him do some good stuff but isolated and drifted inside far too much. Probably the fault of the tactics
McCleary - Looks a bit shot to me. Should be being played as a winger off the bench I think. Didn't really do anything of note except pick the ball up (presumably in a fit of frustration) and let loose a half-decent effort from quite a way out
Aluko - Another one I feel sorry for. I don;t think he was the player we needed by any stretch, but if you're going to sign him play in a way that allows him to stretch his legs, use his pace, move up the pitch quickly or play off the last man. Don't try and use him to win headers off grizzled centre halves or worse have him dropping deep to collect the ball, dribble round in circles and lay if off/balls up a 5 yard forward pass. His confidence is going to be non-existent if this keeps up.

All in all, we are in real trouble partly from injuries but mainly from Stam's bizarre team selection and tactics. I sincerely hope he can turn it around and last season wasn't a one-off. I don't understand how we have gone so far backwards and made such a departure from the way we played last year. Tempting to blame it on a lack of a striker but that can't be the whole picture.

[NewCorkSeth]

Three pages slagging off the best manager we've had in years and no mention of the absolute stonewall penalty in the last minute! Did any of you actually go to the game last night?

It's not being mentioned for a reason. We didn't deserve a draw based on the performance and it's more the performances than the results that are agitating fans.

Yes we should have had a penalty but that would only have papered over the cracks (provided we scored it) and allowed Stam room to continue his decline. Something has to change tactically and the result against Millwall has nothing to do with it.

We play terrible football. Most nobbers wanted a line up change for this match desperately, we didn't get it and we lost because of it. I can't speak for everyone but I doubt I'm alone in saying that I don't care that we lost and I wouldn't have cared if we won. I care that a team with great potential is being mismanaged at the moment by someone I still have a lot of faith in. The fact that it's so obvious to the fans what the problem is makes the whole thing unnerving.

Come on mate, you're usually one of the better posters on here but what you've just written is complete and utter drivel: "I don't care that we lost and I wouldn't have cared if we won" what the oxf*rd? Are you a supporter? We were robbed last night with the team he put out - end of.

Its my ambivalence that has developed over the last few games. If we had won that game playing as poorly as we did it would only allow Stam to continue with the nonsense tactics hes been deploying.

I don't want him gone, I have made that clear on this and other threads and I fully agree we deserved a penalty, but we should never have needed one.

I said I wouldnt have cared if we won that game because it would only have been a placebo result. The problem needs attention immediately and putting off the cure with undeserved points would only hurt us more in the long run. It's because I support this team that I want to see something change and if a defeat to Millwall wont change his mind nothing will.

We deserved to lose that game with the team he put out.

[Hound]

I think it speaks volumes that Millwall fans are saying we're the worst side to play them, including League One last season.

which is odd considering they managed a grand total of 6 shots on goal, and were a prob a poor refereeing decision away from only getting a point.

It isn't odd. Just because we won doesn't mean we didn't have an off night too.

I think that's the point, that was probably our most lackluster performance of the season, but yet we came away with a win. That's football I guess - we played far better v Forest and Ipswich, yet lost those games.

Harris tries to always put out the same side, and we play a very high energy game. I think having to play two games back to back with 10 men, a high octane game against old foes Leeds and a tough trip to Preston in recent weeks has taken its toll. We looked tired.

Reading may have the same excuses, I don't know. But, I think it is fair to say that Reading are the poorest side we faced this season so far. And that includes Bolton, although that was only the second game in & they still probably had a bit of optimism and fight about them at that point.

Well possibly we just didn't allow you to play the game you wanted? Tired etc is just an excuse as you say, same as every other team in the division. Didn't you have something like 30 shots to 1 against Leeds? Did they honestly look better than our own version of shambles last night?

[bobby1413]

Let's get this straight, Stam choked at Wembley last season. I've dwelt a lot on what happened that day and I cannot get away from the fact that we didn't set ourselves up in any way to get a result that day.

One of the saddest days in the history of the club. If we'd have had a go and lost, it would have been disappointing but that's how football goes. The fact we played one of the most negative game plans in the history of playoff finals will always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. We got exactly what we deserved.

I try not to think about the play off final for these reasons. It really was thrown away and to think we were just a couple of penalties away still fcuking kills me to think about.

I don't think Stam is rattled by the Play Off final, I also don't think his demeanour or personality has changed since last season. I think it's now just because things are a bit dire and poor that people are examining his comments more and his responses.

I'm a bit worried by Norwich on Saturday now

Is it any wonder that Dutch football is in decline with tactics like Stam's, (DeBoer at Palace was given the boot quickly). The football served up is all pretty and neat but is not what is needed in the Championship. We have no passion for the game. Where is the SPIRIT, TENACITY, FLAIR?

I said on another thread that I watched Brighton vs Newcastle and it was amazing to see two teams basically sprinting up the pitch at each other in blistering attacks forward, balls whipped in every other minute. It was intense play, with a drive and a purpose. Compared to us against Hull.

I've said again I don't mind passing sideways, backwards if it leads somewhere but it doesn't.

I really do think that against Norwich the crowd will be well and truly on the players back and it could be another toxic and negative atmosphere unless we come out fighting from the first minute.

[LWJ]

It's not being mentioned for a reason. We didn't deserve a draw based on the performance and it's more the performances than the results that are agitating fans.

You didn't go then I take it.

[Hound]

just seen a pic of the penalty incident in the chron

Actually a pretty horrendous decision not to give it based on that and the replays I've seen. Not that it makes any difference now

[bobby1413]

Entire way we play was summed up when we broke in the 1st half with Beerens only having the right back to beat and he was away. He stopped, and passed it backwards. Playing 2 games running with no recognized striker is just clueless garbage. Time is running out.

I assume you mean in regards to Stam and how long he keeps his job? If so I really don't get this attitude of sacking managers so quickly. We had an amazing season last season, getting to a play off final against all odds.

He's had only 9 games this season. Yes it's been dull football, but about 5 games ago we were all saying how we ripped Birmingham apart and also Aston Villa, and looked amazing. Yet only a few terrible games later suddenly some are questioning how long we give Stam.

If your suggestion is to sack him (sometime soon), then I ask you what we do? Get ANOTHER manager in? and start this whole fcking process again or buying new players, giving him a season and then sack him because we don't do very well?

McDermott
Adkins
Clarke

I think Stam is a good manager and can achieve things at this club. I'm sick of this attitude of sacking managers just because you've had a poor run and things aren't great for a short period of time.

[Bunny1885]

which is odd considering they managed a grand total of 6 shots on goal, and were a prob a poor refereeing decision away from only getting a point.

It isn't odd. Just because we won doesn't mean we didn't have an off night too.

I think that's the point, that was probably our most lackluster performance of the season, but yet we came away with a win. That's football I guess - we played far better v Forest and Ipswich, yet lost those games.

Harris tries to always put out the same side, and we play a very high energy game. I think having to play two games back to back with 10 men, a high octane game against old foes Leeds and a tough trip to Preston in recent weeks has taken its toll. We looked tired.

Reading may have the same excuses, I don't know. But, I think it is fair to say that Reading are the poorest side we faced this season so far. And that includes Bolton, although that was only the second game in & they still probably had a bit of optimism and fight about them at that point.

Well possibly we just didn't allow you to play the game you wanted? Tired etc is just an excuse as you say, same as every other team in the division. Didn't you have something like 30 shots to 1 against Leeds? Did they honestly look better than our own version of shambles last night?

That would be hard to qualify - because we were so good against Leeds. We weren't very good last night, yet it was still an even game. I think tiredness is a far enough excuse for us though - we have a small squad (no million pound players on our bench) and play a high octane game, and have to do that while dealing with a striker injury/suspension crisis. In fact it is fairer to say that Morison looked knackered, rather than whole team. Ideally Gregory would be beside him & Elliot could come on for him. And when Morison looks leggy then we are not as potent a threat as a team.

As an aside, that's not to say I think Reading are poor full stop. Just last night they didn't really show any real quality against us on an off night. But I do agree that Reading did stop us playing the way we wanted - as usually when we let the other side have the ball they tend to attack with it & then we hit them on the counter. Reading looked like they just wanted to keep it in safe areas.

Perhaps when we say poor, we actually mean most boring side we have played thus far. That's not being one-eyed, just an honest opinion.

I do not believe Reading are in any danger of relegation & will probably finish top half imo. Just going through a play-off hungover at the moment perhaps? We were struggling this time last season with a play-off hangover & recovered to go up.