BFTG - Derby

[genome]

Question - where do you live?

I’m gonna go with Denver

Im not.

Don't they get iFollow over there? I think they can watch the matches in full.

[Sutekh]

Aluko was ok I thought. Nothing special, but not as bad as some are saying.

Ilori was just ridiculous. End of. You simply cannot play like that as a central defender in this div. Period. I'm not his biggest fan to begin with, so I try to be objective, but that was shameful. Absolutely cost us the win today. I was actually worried we'd score a 4th, only for him to then have another drama again. I'm not yet even sure what his position is, cos I'm not yet totally convinced it's center D in this league.

Bod was Bod. Hustles, but is limited. Doesn't play anything like his listed height, and is too often a spectator and in their back pocket when it's in the air

Said it b4, but Bacuna flatters to deceive in midfield. I think some are realizing why he's been played at FB a bit. He showed some flashes, but manager's can't seem to get in his head and get the best out of him.
.

Denver would agree with some of what you said but would pull you up a little on the above

I think what maybe you don’t see assuming you are watching a stream is just how much Aluko’s positioning affects the balance of the team. This is my massive issue with him and plenty see it. He is literally treading on Kelly’s toes and takes away all the width on the right and leaves Gunter to work that entire flank on his own. We looked massively better when GMac (who hopefully showed some signs of a return to form) came on. Aluko is utterly pointless if he is just clogging up CM. In fact it’s detrimental as another body in there just slows us down. Whether that’s him or Stam’s instruction we don’t know

Re: Bacuna, I think you’ve taken a quote from Bruce and run with it too far. Seen no signs of a poor attitude - in fact quite the opposite. Seems happy to do whatever asked of him to a good level. He takes risks, but at the same time makes things happen. I’d say he does the opposite of flattering to deceive, as he gives us a tempo we don’t have with Joey in there. If you watch Dadi’s fluffed chance from yesterday you can see what Bacuna brings - pacey passing and a good eye for a through ball. Not everything comes off but he wouldn’t be here if it did

Wouldn’t disagree massively on Bod but he did ok in the air against two big experience lumps. Note he won the header to set up our equaliser

And I do think you’re being a bit harsh on Ilori. He should and must do better than yesterday but I do think it was a relatively rare poor game from him. As said, he was excellent the game before and needs to get this one out of his head

So in other words you disagree with everything he’s just written.



Aluko is poor. What a waste of money.

Have to say Aluko should be nowhere near a team playing in a relegation battle. Would look good in a team going for promotion but even then largely as a supersub for 30 minutes.

Would drop him out for McCleary on Tuesday.

[Victor Meldrew]

Poor Ilori-I'm buggered if I would want to play alongside such a poor defender as Gunter at right back/wing back.
Nobody so far has said anything about Gunter's defending (again) as he had some reasonable forward runs but take a look at the first and third goals.
For the first he (yet again) failed to block a cross leading to a tap-in.
For the 3rd he just let Lawrence run into the box without a semblance of a challenge leaving Ilori (who was having a bad game) to hesitate and looked frightened to challenge in case he gave away a penalty.
The challenge should have been made by Gunter outside the box.
That first goal was similar to Forest's goal in midweek-player on the left is unchallenged by Gunter so squares the ball with ease for Tomlin to smash in.

That's my moan-the game overall was at last a pleasure on a Saturday afternoon in brilliant sunshine with Reading playing that bit quicker through midfield (no Joey to slow it all down) and Kelly had a decent game with that cracking goal and some good passing and Mo looking dangerous whenever on the ball (my player of the season so far).

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

[Old Man Andrews]

Poor Ilori-I'm buggered if I would want to play alongside such a poor defender as Gunter at right back/wing back.
Nobody so far has said anything about Gunter's defending (again) as he had some reasonable forward runs but take a look at the first and third goals.
For the first he (yet again) failed to block a cross leading to a tap-in.
For the 3rd he just let Lawrence run into the box without a semblance of a challenge leaving Ilori (who was having a bad game) to hesitate and looked frightened to challenge in case he gave away a penalty.
The challenge should have been made by Gunter outside the box.
That first goal was similar to Forest's goal in midweek-player on the left is unchallenged by Gunter so squares the ball with ease for Tomlin to smash in.

That's my moan-the game overall was at last a pleasure on a Saturday afternoon in brilliant sunshine with Reading playing that bit quicker through midfield (no Joey to slow it all down) and Kelly had a decent game with that cracking goal and some good passing and Mo looking dangerous whenever on the ball (my player of the season so far).

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

Could really have shortened that to "I'll just blame Chris Gunter because he's an easy target."

[Zip]

Poor Ilori-I'm buggered if I would want to play alongside such a poor defender as Gunter at right back/wing back.
Nobody so far has said anything about Gunter's defending (again) as he had some reasonable forward runs but take a look at the first and third goals.
For the first he (yet again) failed to block a cross leading to a tap-in.
For the 3rd he just let Lawrence run into the box without a semblance of a challenge leaving Ilori (who was having a bad game) to hesitate and looked frightened to challenge in case he gave away a penalty.
The challenge should have been made by Gunter outside the box.
That first goal was similar to Forest's goal in midweek-player on the left is unchallenged by Gunter so squares the ball with ease for Tomlin to smash in.

That's my moan-the game overall was at last a pleasure on a Saturday afternoon in brilliant sunshine with Reading playing that bit quicker through midfield (no Joey to slow it all down) and Kelly had a decent game with that cracking goal and some good passing and Mo looking dangerous whenever on the ball (my player of the season so far).

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

Could really have shortened that to "I'll just blame Chris Gunter because he's an easy target."

Yep agreed. Gunter was at fault at Forest. To blame him for a shocking clearance by Ilori, a very poor tackle by Ilori and a really poor header by Ilori is laughable but Victor loves to scapegoat Gunter so it comes as no surprise. I suspect he will be blaming him for the Nazis invasion of Poland next

[Denver Royal]

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

Victor, I'd say it's more likely he's got the message across, but they don't execute and/or make mistakes. For their first goal yesterday, it was just a howler by Ilori, and prolly little or nothing to do with messages or coaching. I suspect Ilori would hold his hands up and say the same, apologize to teammates and say 'Sorry guys, and sorry coach, that one's on me'. I mean, you could watch a bunch of high school games and not see that mistake.

Our central defenders are not really the type I favour in this div anyway, and that's a whole other Summer discussion. But basically, most any high ball in to our box - and there are many of those in the Champ - is too often a drama/adventure.

[RoyalBlue]

Poor Ilori-I'm buggered if I would want to play alongside such a poor defender as Gunter at right back/wing back.
Nobody so far has said anything about Gunter's defending (again) as he had some reasonable forward runs but take a look at the first and third goals.
For the first he (yet again) failed to block a cross leading to a tap-in.
For the 3rd he just let Lawrence run into the box without a semblance of a challenge leaving Ilori (who was having a bad game) to hesitate and looked frightened to challenge in case he gave away a penalty.
The challenge should have been made by Gunter outside the box.
That first goal was similar to Forest's goal in midweek-player on the left is unchallenged by Gunter so squares the ball with ease for Tomlin to smash in.

That's my moan-the game overall was at last a pleasure on a Saturday afternoon in brilliant sunshine with Reading playing that bit quicker through midfield (no Joey to slow it all down) and Kelly had a decent game with that cracking goal and some good passing and Mo looking dangerous whenever on the ball (my player of the season so far).

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

Could really have shortened that to "I'll just blame Chris Gunter because he's an easy target."

Exactly! Absolutely staggered that anyone could try to transfer the blame from Ilori to Gunter! Why not claim Gunter conceded the needless freekick that led to the second goal too! Plain stupidity or an utter lack of footballing knowledge (I doubt it's the latter)

Ilori just had one of those days when everything went wrong for him.

[Victor Meldrew]

I made the point because for all his improvement going forward this year (and he has improved in that area) his defending is as bad as it has ever been.
What I really hate is that none of the defenders, apart from Moore and his standards have dropped this season, will take responsibility.
Every time we concede a goal from an innocuous attack or a set piece they just all look at each other bemused-it happens far too often and has turned us from a promotion prospect to one in danger of relegation and for the most part there has been no great change in personnel.

One other thing, why does the keeper pass the ball to Ilori or one of the other defenders to knock the ball down field when he could have done it himself?
I thought he might have had an injury but on the rare occasions when he took it upon himself he got decent distance with his kick.

When you see Aluko and Clement contributing so little it does make you wonder where we might have been if a more dynamic replacement for Williams had been found.

[Victor Meldrew]

Poor Ilori-I'm buggered if I would want to play alongside such a poor defender as Gunter at right back/wing back.
Nobody so far has said anything about Gunter's defending (again) as he had some reasonable forward runs but take a look at the first and third goals.
For the first he (yet again) failed to block a cross leading to a tap-in.
For the 3rd he just let Lawrence run into the box without a semblance of a challenge leaving Ilori (who was having a bad game) to hesitate and looked frightened to challenge in case he gave away a penalty.
The challenge should have been made by Gunter outside the box.
That first goal was similar to Forest's goal in midweek-player on the left is unchallenged by Gunter so squares the ball with ease for Tomlin to smash in.

That's my moan-the game overall was at last a pleasure on a Saturday afternoon in brilliant sunshine with Reading playing that bit quicker through midfield (no Joey to slow it all down) and Kelly had a decent game with that cracking goal and some good passing and Mo looking dangerous whenever on the ball (my player of the season so far).

What people find odd (as per discussions in the Gents!!) is that we are managed by one of the best central defenders ever to play the game in this country and yet he just cannot seem to get the message across to our defenders that they have to take responsibility and not just leave things to everybody else and IMHO this is the prime reason why we are perilously close to the relegation places.

Could really have shortened that to "I'll just blame Chris Gunter because he's an easy target."

Exactly! Absolutely staggered that anyone could try to transfer the blame from Ilori to Gunter! Why not claim Gunter conceded the needless freekick that led to the second goal too! Plain stupidity or an utter lack of footballing knowledge (I doubt it's the latter)

Ilori just had one of those days when everything went wrong for him.

If you read properly you will see that I said young Ilori had a bad game but the vastly experienced Gunter did little to help our cause defensively.

[Horsham Royal]

... Every time we concede a goal from an innocuous attack or a set piece they just all look at each other bemused ...

From his reaction straight after the first goal, Ilori knows it was down to his 'clearance'.

[Theroyalbox]

Finally, all we've been asking for is the lads to show a bit of fighting spirit a bit of team spirit and the crowd responded very well. Thought Aluko although technically was poor, he ran his socks off so credit to him.

Slagged Barrow off on here before but fair play to the lad looks like he can play football, well done Mo I was wrong about you.

JDB - goals to minute ratio is incredibly impressive, also still want to give Ilori more time, theres a good player in there somewhere

And my word I just love Chris Gunter hes been so consistent for us this year, puts everything on the line - POTS for me.

[NewCorkSeth]

Finally, all we've been asking for is the lads to show a bit of fighting spirit a bit of team spirit and the crowd responded very well. Thought Aluko although technically was poor, he ran his socks off so credit to him.

Slagged Barrow off on here before but fair play to the lad looks like he can play football, well done Mo I was wrong about you.

JDB - goals to minute ratio is incredibly impressive, also still want to give Ilori more time, theres a good player in there somewhere

And my word I just love Chris Gunter hes been so consistent for us this year, puts everything on the line - POTS for me.

I thought he was really poor that game. Didnt make a single tackle or win a single aerial duel and on the attacking side didnt complete a dribble (I really hate that phrase it sounds like something an american commentator came up with)

I accept he has been consistent but the level of that consistency just isn't good enough and it never has been. Hes a jack of all trades footballer who, at his best, is the perfect person to have on the bench as back up.

Liam Moore is both statistically and observably our best player and should be our POTS (with Barrow in close second and JDB in third)

[Coppells Lost Coat]

Think its a bit early for POTS thoughts....
On a side note, do you think Clement will get given more game time after his performance? I am a firm believer that our def issues lays within our midfield. Just seeing if people see enough in him become an option for a different mid set up.

[Hound]

I think Clement is still a little way off. There is a good player in there, and don't mind him as a sub, but think he is too lightweight at the moment. Gets shrugged off the ball to easily

Like his pace and attacking instinct. I'd rather play Swift though, prob alongside Bacuna and Kelly/Edwards in the midfield

[Old Man Andrews]

Wouldn't even put Clement in the under 23's. He is not the required level for the Championship for sure. Club should try and offload in the summer.

[Forbury Lion]

I came away from the game feeling entertained, the players (especially Kelly) seemed willing to shoot at goal and charge forward chasing balls. That's how you stop the fans booing Stam.

Had we lost, I would have felt disappointed but still entertained and positive that we at least seemed to be getting things right up front with goals being scored despite Chris Martin and Yann Kermorgant being out of the team.

Defence needs work.

[NewCorkSeth]

I think Clement is still a little way off. There is a good player in there, and don't mind him as a sub, but think he is too lightweight at the moment. Gets shrugged off the ball to easily

Like his pace and attacking instinct. I'd rather play Swift though, prob alongside Bacuna and Kelly/Edwards in the midfield

Agree on all of that. Instinct is clearly there but somehow he seems to struggle at simple things at times.

[NewCorkSeth]

I came away from the game feeling entertained, the players (especially Kelly) seemed willing to shoot at goal and charge forward chasing balls. That's how you stop the fans booing Stam.

Had we lost, I would have felt disappointed but still entertained and positive that we at least seemed to be getting things right up front with goals being scored despite Chris Martin and Yann Kermorgant being out of the team.

Defence needs work.

I was getting a bit annoyed by the shooting from 25-30 yards if I am honest.

[muirinho]

I came away from the game feeling entertained, the players (especially Kelly) seemed willing to shoot at goal and charge forward chasing balls. That's how you stop the fans booing Stam.

Had we lost, I would have felt disappointed but still entertained and positive that we at least seemed to be getting things right up front with goals being scored despite Chris Martin and Yann Kermorgant being out of the team.

Defence needs work.

I was getting a bit annoyed by the shooting from 25-30 yards if I am honest.

Even when Kelly's went in? He had another late on that was pretty close. He can hit them from there, if it opens up in front of him, why not have a go?

[Forbury Lion]

I came away from the game feeling entertained, the players (especially Kelly) seemed willing to shoot at goal and charge forward chasing balls. That's how you stop the fans booing Stam.

Had we lost, I would have felt disappointed but still entertained and positive that we at least seemed to be getting things right up front with goals being scored despite Chris Martin and Yann Kermorgant being out of the team.

Defence needs work.

I was getting a bit annoyed by the shooting from 25-30 yards if I am honest.

Even when Kelly's went in? He had another late on that was pretty close. He can hit them from there, if it opens up in front of him, why not have a go?

I just saw shooting from 25-30 yards as an improvement over passing the ball back 25-30 yards to the goalkeeper