BFTG Wigan.

[fred sharpes nose]

agreed very big mistake losing Evans and indeed Cooper earlier - Evans had something about him that was good and would have been a good first pick IMO - young with coaching would develop further. Ever since I've seen Swift and Kelly in the same team I got the view that it would never work. When we had a 5 midfield group of William Evans Swift /Kelly and Joey as number 5 I though that covered all the bases. Swift when he got here impressed so much as I thought he was one of the the best technical/skillful payers we've had on the books for a very long time

Evans Swift Kelly are young and gifted.............have they got what it takes though to grind out 3 points away on a cold rainy Tuesday night away at Barnsley, Rotherham etc. Breakthrough seasons - youngsters shine, but the sometimes loose their gloss as time goes by in the relentless slog that is the Championship. Too molly coddled perhaps

[URZZZZ]

I explained my point in that way because in my opinion, that is the best way to describe the reason that Gunter plays the way he plays.

Gunter is actually an excellent player. He is very good. He has been a fantastic player for us in the past. But I think the way he performs nowadays is because of how he has been coached by Stam. He has it in his head that he must keep the ball. He has become so cautious. He does not want to take any risks. He will not try to move forward or try penetrating passes or put balls into the box that might be headed clear. He just plays it safe over and over again. I think that is because of Stam's ideology. He cannot get it out of his head.

Chris, I don't mind you losing the ball. I want to see you try to harm the opposition. Even if that means losing the ball. Push the opponent. Put them under pressure. Take them on. Try to beat them. Try and hurt them. Whip balls into the box. Don't worry if it gets headed away. Give them something to think about. Give them something to defend. Aim for somewhere in the region of Meite. If it doesn't work out, I don't mind. I will love you for trying it. Take risks.

Its a shame because Gunter has all the qualities to be an outstanding player. He was an outstanding player before and he can be again. I think he is held back by wanting to play a certain way according to the principles of a former manager.

I disagree, I think his relationship with the fans is non-repairable now, with the chants of "Off, off, off" when he got booked from our own fans. Pretty sad how juvenile some of our fans are, I don't particularly rate him but how will that help his confidence at all.

I see J Low try to raise the same point but was completely shut down by these "so called fans" claiming they can do whatever they want because they paid their hard earned money. In reality, it's not as if people are forced to go and watch, some of our fans really are pathetic, I'd love to see their reaction on a cold Tuesday night in Grimsby losing 3-0!

[oldebiscuit]

I explained my point in that way because in my opinion, that is the best way to describe the reason that Gunter plays the way he plays.

Gunter is actually an excellent player. He is very good. He has been a fantastic player for us in the past. But I think the way he performs nowadays is because of how he has been coached by Stam. He has it in his head that he must keep the ball. He has become so cautious. He does not want to take any risks. He will not try to move forward or try penetrating passes or put balls into the box that might be headed clear. He just plays it safe over and over again. I think that is because of Stam's ideology. He cannot get it out of his head.

Chris, I don't mind you losing the ball. I want to see you try to harm the opposition. Even if that means losing the ball. Push the opponent. Put them under pressure. Take them on. Try to beat them. Try and hurt them. Whip balls into the box. Don't worry if it gets headed away. Give them something to think about. Give them something to defend. Aim for somewhere in the region of Meite. If it doesn't work out, I don't mind. I will love you for trying it. Take risks.

Its a shame because Gunter has all the qualities to be an outstanding player. He was an outstanding player before and he can be again. I think he is held back by wanting to play a certain way according to the principles of a former manager.

I disagree, I think his relationship with the fans is non-repairable now, with the chants of "Off, off, off" when he got booked from our own fans. Pretty sad how juvenile some of our fans are, I don't particularly rate him but how will that help his confidence at all.

I see J Low try to raise the same point but was completely shut down by these "so called fans" claiming they can do whatever they want because they paid their hard earned money. In reality, it's not as if people are forced to go and watch, some of our fans really are pathetic, I'd love to see their reaction on a cold Tuesday night in Grimsby losing 3-0!

When all said and done a 0-0 draw away at Wigan is a good point earnt. People need to get for real, even if we were challenging for a top six place a 0-0 draw at Wigan would be an ok point.

[10539.4 Miles Away]

Wigan were a physical side. They packed the centre of the pitch well and never over committed men either forward or on their defensive flanks.

We lost a huge amount of width with this formation and both Blackett and Gunter were effectively closed down by a single defender (due to the fact Aluko and McCleary were central rather than offering an overlap/pulling another man out of the box with them)

Our regular formation would have been better. The players are more used to it, know their roles better and have been scoring from it.

Wigan have been losing and we have been scoring. We decided to go with a formation that focuses entirely down the centre of the pitch and Wigan were easily holding us off there. This was a game we could have gone 4-4-2 and pumped balls into Meite. Instead we tried to play it through the middle with no outlets on the wings and ended up passing it backwards just to try get it over to the other flank.

The current formation is born out of who's currently available. As a squad we are far too lightweight in midfield to play a 4-4-2. On reflection losing Evans in the summer was a big mistake. As would have provided alternative options. Bacuna should be back in the team on Tuesday night.

Why not continue with the 4-2-3-1?
Sims, McCleary and Aluko were all available for the wing positions.

He made the desicion for a reason other than players available. I can't figure out what it was.

I thought Meite had a disappointing game on Saturday and had put it down to the fact he was playing up top by himself, would like to see A.N.Other beside him on Tuesday.

[Snowflake Royal]

Highlights looked fairly even on clear chances. Maybe edged a bit by Wigan.

[NewCorkSeth]

Highlights looked fairly even on clear chances. Maybe edged a bit by Wigan.

Highlights were overly favourable to us. Wigan had chances you'd expect a pub team to finish. Ours were harder worked by far.

[NewCorkSeth]

The current formation is born out of who's currently available. As a squad we are far too lightweight in midfield to play a 4-4-2. On reflection losing Evans in the summer was a big mistake. As would have provided alternative options. Bacuna should be back in the team on Tuesday night.

Why not continue with the 4-2-3-1?
Sims, McCleary and Aluko were all available for the wing positions.

He made the desicion for a reason other than players available. I can't figure out what it was.

I thought Meite had a disappointing game on Saturday and had put it down to the fact he was playing up top by himself, would like to see A.N.Other beside him on Tuesday.

He was a forced passenger. The team were incapable of getting the ball to him. Meite needs to work on his positioning and movement but, for me, the fault doesn't lie with him.

[Sutekh]

Why not continue with the 4-2-3-1?
Sims, McCleary and Aluko were all available for the wing positions.

He made the desicion for a reason other than players available. I can't figure out what it was.

I thought Meite had a disappointing game on Saturday and had put it down to the fact he was playing up top by himself, would like to see A.N.Other beside him on Tuesday.

He was a forced passenger. The team were incapable of getting the ball to him. Meite needs to work on his positioning and movement but, for me, the fault doesn't lie with him.

Apparently Meite is playing with an ankle problem so not entirely surprised if his performances are a bit less than the usual for him. Presume it's therefore not serious and something that'll improve slowly whether he plays or not.

[muirinho]

I disagree, I think his relationship with the fans is non-repairable now, with the chants of "Off, off, off" when he got booked from our own fans. Pretty sad how juvenile some of our fans are, I don't particularly rate him but how will that help his confidence at all.

Yeah, must have been quite a contrast coming back from all the praise for beating the Welsh record, to that.
wouldn't surprise me if he tried to leave next window.

It's a pity, because (a) he's played a lot of games for the club, and this is a sad way for his time to finish, (b) he's a nice guy that his teammates all get on with - they're going to look at how he's being treated and think considerably less of the fans as a result - that damage to the relationship is not going to be just about him and (c) he's a very useful member of the squad as he's always match fit and can cover a number of positions - given how often everybody else seems to get injured, that is no small thing.

[Snowflake Royal]

As someone who has never rated Gunter and thinks we should have replaced him years ago, he is still a decent back up right back and doesn't deserve booing or ironic cheers and jeers at games.

There's a difference between a player who simply isn't good enough and positive enough but gives his all and a player who is useless, lazy and uninterested. You can't accuse Gunter of not playing for the team.

[leon]

I disagree, I think his relationship with the fans is non-repairable now, with the chants of "Off, off, off" when he got booked from our own fans. Pretty sad how juvenile some of our fans are, I don't particularly rate him but how will that help his confidence at all.

Yeah, must have been quite a contrast coming back from all the praise for beating the Welsh record, to that.
wouldn't surprise me if he tried to leave next window.

It's a pity, because (a) he's played a lot of games for the club, and this is a sad way for his time to finish, (b) he's a nice guy that his teammates all get on with - they're going to look at how he's being treated and think considerably less of the fans as a result - that damage to the relationship is not going to be just about him and (c) he's a very useful member of the squad as he's always match fit and can cover a number of positions - given how often everybody else seems to get injured, that is no small thing.

I'm not really sure why Gunter gets the abuse really. He's got flaws in his game but then all players at this level do, that's why they are playing at this level. As pointed out he's always available and doesn't hide.

[Orion]

Blimey, this Snowflake Royal is insufferable.

Anyway, back to the game. It was cold, we probably just deserved a point based on chances but could easily have lost it.

Don't care about the Aluko goading, his attitude when getting subbed at Villa completely lost it for me and he deserves everything he gets.

Still not sure.on Clement obviously and feel that he's only a couple of defeats away from the chop, but he does seem to be steadying us overall.

Into Leeds and another long journey.

[Ascotexgunner]

As someone who has never rated Gunter and thinks we should have replaced him years ago, he is still a decent back up right back and doesn't deserve booing or ironic cheers and jeers at games.

There's a difference between a player who simply isn't good enough and positive enough but gives his all and a player who is useless, lazy and uninterested. You can't accuse Gunter of not playing for the team.

Absolutely agree. Its where I am with him. Watching Wales he was always the weak link but gelled in with Ledley and Allen helping him. I mean hey we played Belgium 3 times in the 2016 Euros finals and qualifiers and won 2 and drew the other and conceded only 1 goal in those 3 games. Hazard was utterly anonymous...and believe me everything went at Gunter in those 3 matches. The fact the players that cover him for Reading are utterly lightweight just doesn't help him much, but your right, he is a squad member and at the moment a valuable one for the shape we are in.

[sandman]

Don't know how Low would have heard any "off" chants from the press box, unless someone in the stand told him about them. They weren't audible enough to reach the press box or the pitch and if he hadn't reported it nobody would be any the wiser.

[Maneki Neko]

theyre pathetic, regardless of how quiet they were

[Hound]

agreed on Gunter, though I suspect it was just a couple of idiots. Been a good servant and always gives his best. Though didn't look like he had a great game based on the highlights

On Aluko - yes obviously you shouldn't boo your own player etc, but its much more understandable. Big money signing who has just phoned in performances since he got here, and clearly should be nowhere near the team.

[Victor Meldrew]

I explained my point in that way because in my opinion, that is the best way to describe the reason that Gunter plays the way he plays.

Gunter is actually an excellent player. He is very good. He has been a fantastic player for us in the past. But I think the way he performs nowadays is because of how he has been coached by Stam. He has it in his head that he must keep the ball. He has become so cautious. He does not want to take any risks. He will not try to move forward or try penetrating passes or put balls into the box that might be headed clear. He just plays it safe over and over again. I think that is because of Stam's ideology. He cannot get it out of his head.

Chris, I don't mind you losing the ball. I want to see you try to harm the opposition. Even if that means losing the ball. Push the opponent. Put them under pressure. Take them on. Try to beat them. Try and hurt them. Whip balls into the box. Don't worry if it gets headed away. Give them something to think about. Give them something to defend. Aim for somewhere in the region of Meite. If it doesn't work out, I don't mind. I will love you for trying it. Take risks.

Its a shame because Gunter has all the qualities to be an outstanding player. He was an outstanding player before and he can be again. I think he is held back by wanting to play a certain way according to the principles of a former manager.

I disagree, I think his relationship with the fans is non-repairable now, with the chants of "Off, off, off" when he got booked from our own fans. Pretty sad how juvenile some of our fans are, I don't particularly rate him but how will that help his confidence at all.

I see J Low try to raise the same point but was completely shut down by these "so called fans" claiming they can do whatever they want because they paid their hard earned money. In reality, it's not as if people are forced to go and watch, some of our fans really are pathetic, I'd love to see their reaction on a cold Tuesday night in Grimsby losing 3-0!

When all said and done a 0-0 draw away at Wigan is a good point earnt. People need to get for real, even if we were challenging for a top six place a 0-0 draw at Wigan would be an ok point.

Really?
Against a team that had scored 19 goals in 18 games previously and on the back of them having 4(?) straight defeats.
It might have been a good point if we had been winning most of our games but it came on the back of a point against the bottom club at home.
A point per game average probably means relegation.

To climb the table we need to win some more games but your "get real" about a point gained against a team just up from Div 1 when just 2 seasons ago we were so near to a Premier League spot strikes me as unreal.
My how our expectations appear to have dropped.

[stealthpapes]

Highlights looked fairly even on clear chances. Maybe edged a bit by Wigan.

Quest highlights were an early Meite chance and then one-way traffic.

Given that we're going to nurdle this season into submission, an away point and clean sheet is a small net positive.

[Forbury Lion]

some of our fans really are pathetic, I'd love to see their reaction on a cold Tuesday night in Grimsby losing 3-0!

I reckon they'll all be eagerly trying to log on here to start another Clement out thread from the comfort of their armchairs.

[sandman]

agreed on Gunter, though I suspect it was just a couple of idiots. Been a good servant and always gives his best. Though didn't look like he had a great game based on the highlights

On Aluko - yes obviously you shouldn't boo your own player etc, but its much more understandable. Big money signing who has just phoned in performances since he got here, and clearly should be nowhere near the team.

So we're adding "great servant" to "great athlete" and "he's picked for Wales" on the list of the qualities of Gunter.

Nothing about ability around his own box or the opposition's box.