Portsmouth Admin

[Zammo]

I'm getting right royally f**ked off with the PFC situation. We all know they'll walk away from this and kick off on level terms with us this Saturday, playing players they "bought" with money they never had, from teams that they still owe money to. Whereas we'll keep the same tight ship as ever, yet on paper, our starting 11 is equal at best. Meanwhile, Jones the Printers and Evans the Pie Suppliers have to make do with 20p in the pound over 5 years! Where's the fairness in that? I'm really hoping that the judge is on the "enough is enough" side and they get wound up, but it ain't gonna happen.

What sticks in the craw that as a small businessman myself, I get a letter if my VAT is overdue by a few days (twice in 12 years - once down to their website crashing, once down to me being in hospital). I can only imagine what it would be like if my PAYE, NI and VAT were overdue to a comparable amount as PFC.

Still, at least I can sleep at night knowing that I didn't use St. John Ambulance money or cash collected from buckets for charity to help pay player wages. Mind you, I don't sleep in a multimillion pound house on the south coast...

Well said. Could not agree more.

[Mr Angry]

Frankly, reading what was actually said in Court today from a totally neutral position, if half of what HMRC claimed in Court today is provable than Coventry City's players will have a few more days before their season kicks off.

Bluntly, the owners of PFC have been deliberately and systematically defrauding HMRC (thats you and me by the way) for at least 4 years, with the direct and knowing connivance of players and agents. This totally stinks, and I for one don't give a toss for "the football family" line; thats cr@p - PFC can be seen in the same terms as a front company whose primary business is to launder money into offshore accounts, and not paying tax on it. PFC should be closed down, its present and former owners should all be hauled into the dock, and all should face fraud charges.

Incidentally, if I were HMRC, I would go after players and their agents as well; clearly they have been getting money paid into offshore accounts tax free - they have acted fraudulently and should serve time like any other common huckster.

I wonder if Abby will visit Crouchy in Wandsworth nick??

[10539.4 Miles Away]

Frankly, reading what was actually said in Court today from a totally neutral position, if half of what HMRC claimed in Court today is provable than Coventry City's players will have a few more days before their season kicks off.

Bluntly, the owners of PFC have been deliberately and systematically defrauding HMRC (thats you and me by the way) for at least 4 years, with the direct and knowing connivance of players and agents. This totally stinks, and I for one don't give a toss for "the football family" line; thats cr@p - PFC can be seen in the same terms as a front company whose primary business is to launder money into offshore accounts, and not paying tax on it. PFC should be closed down, its present and former owners should all be hauled into the dock, and all should face fraud charges.

Incidentally, if I were HMRC, I would go after players and their agents as well; clearly they have been getting money paid into offshore accounts tax free - they have acted fraudulently and should serve time like any other common huckster.

I wonder if Abby will visit Crouchy in Wandsworth nick??

+1000000

Assuming that this is all proven (which I doubt it will be, unfortunately) then there should be a sizeable public back lash against Portsmouth, it is - simply put - Fraud. It also makes the fawning over "plucky Portsmouth" at the FA Cup final even more embarrassing for those involved.

[No Hoops]

Frankly, reading what was actually said in Court today from a totally neutral position, if half of what HMRC claimed in Court today is provable than Coventry City's players will have a few more days before their season kicks off.

Bluntly, the owners of PFC have been deliberately and systematically defrauding HMRC (thats you and me by the way) for at least 4 years, with the direct and knowing connivance of players and agents. This totally stinks, and I for one don't give a toss for "the football family" line; thats cr@p - PFC can be seen in the same terms as a front company whose primary business is to launder money into offshore accounts, and not paying tax on it. PFC should be closed down, its present and former owners should all be hauled into the dock, and all should face fraud charges.

Incidentally, if I were HMRC, I would go after players and their agents as well; clearly they have been getting money paid into offshore accounts tax free - they have acted fraudulently and should serve time like any other common huckster.



+1000000

Assuming that this is all proven (which I doubt it will be, unfortunately) then there should be a sizeable public back lash against Portsmouth, it is - simply put - Fraud. It also makes the fawning over "plucky Portsmouth" at the FA Cup final even more embarrassing for those involved.

I see they are asking for a "SPORTING CHANCE" now.

FCUK OFF YOU THEIVING BELL RINGING TW@S
I wonder if Abby will visit Crouchy in Wandsworth nick??

[Tony Le Mesmer]

If there are any Reading fans even considering puting a few quid into PFC's coffers on the 14th then shame on you.

Excellent post by Goalsposts

[Wycombe Royal]

Latest thing to come out in court is that the players who are owed money also had a vote on the CVA even though they get 100% of what they are owed......

[Z175]

Latest thing to come out in court is that the players who are owed money also had a vote on the CVA even though they get 100% of what they are owed......

Funny they voted for 100% of what they were owed, not liquidation of the club and nothing!

[Stranded]

Interestingly according to the link below, the other Prem clubs wanted to boot Pompey out but the PL wouldn't allow it and persuaded them to advance the parachute payment:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 886009.stm

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Interestingly according to the link below, the other Prem clubs wanted to boot Pompey out but the PL wouldn't allow it and persuaded them to advance the parachute payment:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 886009.stm

Mind you, any thoughts that their thinking had anything to do with fairness can be summed up by these lines...

The other clubs wanted "to boot Pompey out there and then", Sheldon said.

He added: "The clubs wanted Portsmouth to go to the wall and divide all the TV money among themselves."

[TFF]

I'm so excited. No more sleeps.

High Court judge Mr Justice Mann, who is overseeing the tax liability case at the High Court in London, says he will hand down his decision between 1500 BST and 1600 BST on Thursday.

Fingers crossed then...

[Stranded]

I'm completely expecting them to win the case, and sign 8 players on loan from PL clubs by the weekend.

[andrew1957]

I'm completely expecting them to win the case, and sign 8 players on loan from PL clubs by the weekend.

Unfortunately you are probably right but let's hope they are out of business by this evening and justice is done for once.

[Mr Angry]

The PFC counsel yesterday basically pressed the Armageddon button in Court; his only argument seemed to be "If you rule in favour of HMRC, Portsmouth will go out of business".

Er.....so what mate??

He didn't argue about the legitimacy of paying "image rights" and other dodgy offshore payments to players in order to allow those players to avoid paying UK tax (thus enticing them to PFC ahead of other teams), merely that the additional £13M that HMRC are claiming (which would thus give HMRC the casting vote on agreeing the CVA) would mean that Balmain Chandrai wouldn't buy the club and with no other buyers, the club would go into liquidation.

If any other business were to base their whole defence on that, then the decision would be swift and unpleasant for them, and I would just point out that throughout this whole saga, PFC have consistently lied; they denied being served with a winding up order in January, they lied at earlier hearings about having "numerous" bidders but needed more time to finalise the deal to sell the club. and they lied about what they have owed to HMRC to attempt to subvert the CVA ruling (Their original claim was that they "only" owed HMRC £7.5M - remember that?)

Whilst like Stranded I am cynical enough and jaded enough to think that they will get away with this, I hope, both for the sake of justice and for the longer term health of football, they get nailed.

And before anyone assks, if it were us in the same situation with the same set of circumstances, I would feel the same way. Football is bigger than any single club.

[TBM]

So if they go out of business what will happen in the league? - just 2 relegated from Championship?

[Stranded]

At this late stage, I would say so yes.

We'd have a 44 game season and 2 extra breaks in the campaign. 2 would go down but 3 still come up and I would imagine a 3rd club would come up from the Conference to bring all the divisions up to 24 clubs.

[Victor Meldrew]

I agree with most of what you have posted Mr A.
The only thing I would say is why single out Pompey?
Over the years all of the South Coast clubs have trod a similar path but I suppose Pompey have the largest debts by far and one day football clubs have to join the real world as must the players.
Local traders here in Bournemouth have lost thousands (which by degree is like losing millions to a Premiership club) to AFC Bournemouth and the fans are forever dipping further into their pockets to keep the club alive-the vice-presidents have even bought season tickets for life (so lessening future revenue)and apparently the money from about 3,000 season ticket sales has already been spent.

As others have said football clubs are supposedly in some way different from other businesses and should be treated differently-no they shouldn't.
The other thing that annoys me is that HMRC is somehow perceived as a nasty institution wanting payment when in fact it represents all of us.
For the good of football in the long run one of the bigger clubs needs to do an Aldershot or a Newport and start off again way down the football structure.
Whether Pompey will be the one we will know shortly.

[Stranded]

Why Pompey?

Wrong place at the wrong time for them I guess?

There has to be a "first" that they choose to go after and Pompey have just given them the ammo they need.

[Dirk Gently]

Why Pompey?

Wrong place at the wrong time for them I guess?

There has to be a "first" that they choose to go after and Pompey have just given them the ammo they need.

Bigger debts than most - and a message to the PL.

[ZacNaloen]

Bigger debts than most - and a message to the PL.

Whatever you do, don't get relegated?

[Mr Angry]

I agree with most of what you have posted Mr A.
The only thing I would say is why single out Pompey?
Over the years all of the South Coast clubs have trod a similar path but I suppose Pompey have the largest debts by far and one day football clubs have to join the real world as must the players.
Local traders here in Bournemouth have lost thousands (which by degree is like losing millions to a Premiership club) to AFC Bournemouth and the fans are forever dipping further into their pockets to keep the club alive-the vice-presidents have even bought season tickets for life (so lessening future revenue)and apparently the money from about 3,000 season ticket sales has already been spent.

As others have said football clubs are supposedly in some way different from other businesses and should be treated differently-no they shouldn't.
The other thing that annoys me is that HMRC is somehow perceived as a nasty institution wanting payment when in fact it represents all of us.
For the good of football in the long run one of the bigger clubs needs to do an Aldershot or a Newport and start off again way down the football structure.
Whether Pompey will be the one we will know shortly.

Its nothing personal against Pompey VM; frankly I find what has happened to football disgusting and I would love it, just love it, to see all the Glazer's, Gillette/Hicks', Ashley's, Hammam's etc who only got into football as they see it as a licence to print money, get their comeuppance.

We have been and to continue to be living in a South Sea Bubble with football, and at some point, it will burst; loudly and causing untold damage. But I can't see any alternative to that happening because neither the football authorities, nor the clubs, nor the players or their agents, nor the fans WANTS genuine change in football, because so many people are filling up at the trough.

But when it does go pop, it will be unpleasant, and I can see no more than 35 or 40 professional clubs remaining, and even then, they will be much smaller than they are today.