Portsmouth Admin

[TFF]

Oh well,

we'll just have to beat them now.

[Y21_Royal]

Well done, Justice Mann. You've just sent a great message to all of us working our bollocks off day in day out, abiding by what we thought was the law of the land, that we should know our place. Thanks.

I think its a bit pointless to criticize the judge. Clearly HMRC didn't have a good enough case. The fact that there's no appeal suggests that they know that. If you want to be angry at anyone (besides the tax evading pcunters) then be angry at those lawyers who weren't able to make a good enough case.

I fear this may now set a dangerous legal precedent for other teams that go down Pompey's route (I'm sure Cardiff and Hull were watching eagerly for this result) and aid other clubs in avoiding paying up

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I fear this may now set a dangerous legal precedent for other teams that go down Pompey's route (I'm sure Cardiff and Hull were watching eagerly for this result) and aid other clubs in avoiding paying up

That's the problem. Where does it all stop?

What's the point in a competition where the playing field isn't so much as level as full of hills that you can hide behind and snipe away at the enemy without fear. There's every likeliehood Pompey will now sign (on loan probably) six or so players and be challenging for promotion, and if they achieve that, go to the PL with 80% of their debt wiped out.

It's just mind boggling.

[TFF]

But Cardiff and Hull are a whole year away from being in Pompey's position. This was all about not entering the season without a CVA, and thus avoiding a further points penalty.

If Cardiff and/or Hull go bust they'd get a 10-point penalty and transfer embargo just as before.

[Super_horns]

Good news for the Pompey fans who have suffered through this although not their owners etc who really have messed that club up.

The thing is they'll come out of administration with a take-over I presume and then some fans will expect money to be spent again to achieve promotion or something such is the expectations of them.

Clubs do get anyway with over-spending it seems but I suspect they feel the need to in order to statisfy fans who want "ambition"

[Y21_Royal]

I fear this may now set a dangerous legal precedent for other teams that go down Pompey's route (I'm sure Cardiff and Hull were watching eagerly for this result) and aid other clubs in avoiding paying up

That's the problem. Where does it all stop?

What's the point in a competition where the playing field isn't so much as level as full of hills that you can hide behind and snipe away at the enemy without fear. There's every likeliehood Pompey will now sign (on loan probably) six or so players and be challenging for promotion, and if they achieve that, go to the PL with 80% of their debt wiped out.

It's just mind boggling.

I can't see Pompey challenging for promotion but I agree to a point.

The main issue is this football creditors rule which it seems has now been given a rubber stamp by the courts. So long as the principle creditors are other clubs then there will be no changes because its simply not in their interests for it to be any different.

The best way to punish Pompey will be to make sure that on the pitch they struggle and go down, making them as unattractive a proposition to buy as possible. Send them into administration again and see if next time HMEC do a better job of keeping them there

[Super_horns]

In an ideal world clubs would run a realistic business type model of how to spend wisely but that doesn't always get you anywhere ofcourse.

If clubs can pay over the odds to achieve they will...

[Row Z Royal]

Was the challenge to the football creditors rule? I though that the judge was asked to consider the HMRC's claim to tax revenue as a % of the total Pompey debt, thus giving them the opportunity to block the CVA and keep Pompey in adminstration until such time as the FCR could be challenged.

[cmonurz]

Is it Germany where no club is allowed to operate in debt? Great atmosphere at games fuelled by low ticket prices and a brilliant infrastructure for the fans, financial differential between clubs minimised (Bayern will always be Bayern, of course), clubs developing young players as an affordable alternative to splashing huge amounts on overseas players, perhaps as a result, German teams have had relatively little success in Europe in recent years, but on the flip-side their national side is one of the youngest and most exciting on the continent - is this something we aspire to, or do we, as fans, actually just want all the superstars playing in our league?

[Y21_Royal]

Was the challenge to the football creditors rule? I though that the judge was asked to consider the HMRC's claim to tax revenue as a % of the total Pompey debt, thus giving them the opportunity to block the CVA and keep Pompey in adminstration until such time as the FCR could be challenged.

My understanding of it is that HMRC were attempting to block the CVA on the basis that the football creditors rule meant that some players and clubs would receive 100% of their monies owed whereas the taxman gets a much smaller percentage. With the CVA block Pompey would then still be administration for the start of the season.

That's just my understanding of it and as with all things economic I plead a degree of ignorance

[SLAMMED]

Pcunts.

[Geekins]

Fooking hate that shower of shite. No points deduction and last seasons meant naff all as they were relegated anyway.

[Row Z Royal]

Was the challenge to the football creditors rule? I though that the judge was asked to consider the HMRC's claim to tax revenue as a % of the total Pompey debt, thus giving them the opportunity to block the CVA and keep Pompey in adminstration until such time as the FCR could be challenged.

My understanding of it is that HMRC were attempting to block the CVA on the basis that the football creditors rule meant that some players and clubs would receive 100% of their monies owed whereas the taxman gets a much smaller percentage. With the CVA block Pompey would then still be administration for the start of the season.

That's just my understanding of it and as with all things economic I plead a degree of ignorance

That's essentially what I said, though mine chucked in the idea of staging the judgements as the judge couldn't rule on both the legality of HMRC's claim and the legality of the FCR at the same time.

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

Fooking hate that shower of shite. No points deduction and last seasons meant naff all as they were relegated anyway.

Is it not that they can only come out of administration once the buyer does the deal? Will this happen by Saturday? If not, points deduction, surely?

Or am I clutching at straws for even a minimal amount of justice?

[buzzby]

It just said on South Today that former owner Chanrai will now be buying the club.

I think the guy they interviewed on the street summed it all up. "Get back to normal now and get back where we belong, in the Premiership"

What a joke!!

[Dirk Gently]

Is it Germany where no club is allowed to operate in debt? Great atmosphere at games fuelled by low ticket prices and a brilliant infrastructure for the fans, financial differential between clubs minimised (Bayern will always be Bayern, of course), clubs developing young players as an affordable alternative to splashing huge amounts on overseas players, perhaps as a result, German teams have had relatively little success in Europe in recent years, but on the flip-side their national side is one of the youngest and most exciting on the continent - is this something we aspire to, or do we, as fans, actually just want all the superstars playing in our league?

Yep - the German football model is brillaint in so many ways

See http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4931180,00.html

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Good news for the Pompey fans who have suffered through this although not their owners etc who really have messed that club up.

The thing is they'll come out of administration with a take-over I presume and then some fans will expect money to be spent again to achieve promotion or something such is the expectations of them.

Clubs do get anyway with over-spending it seems but I suspect they feel the need to in order to statisfy fans who want "ambition"

Doesnt the terms of the CVA prevent them from doing this?

Surely Chanrai's incentive for buying the club is to get more of his investment back? Hes not in it for the love of the game is he?

I think this decision is just a reprieve. Instead of a quick execution, they will now probably die a lingering painful death. They still have £20m odd to repay under the CVA, in the Chamionship whilst there owner bleeds the club and previous owners still lay claim to surrounding land.

I would be amazed if they turn the corner from here and get through the next few years without sinking a lot further

[Royal With Cheese]

I know some people would think this as melodramatic, but I really don't think I can bring myself to go on Saturday now.

This goes beyond RFC. I simply cannot support - financially and morally - a system that basically now has legal confirmation it's a law unto itself. A system that gets away with paying astronomical wages yet not have to pay the taxes on those wages. A system that relegates me and fellow ordinary supporters who pay through the nose to watch its product at the lowest end of the food chain, people who in the real world have to obey the laws they have so flagrantly and brazenly ignored.

After the MPs expenses, bankers, golden handshakes for mega-failures theres this.

Well done, Justice Mann. You've just sent a great message to all of us working our bollocks off day in day out, abiding by what we thought was the law of the land, that we should know our place. Thanks.

Isn't this the way it's always been? Just with Sky Sports News on the case and the interwebz everyone is more aware of the situation.

FTR I agree with you Goalposts. It stinks big time.

[Bowman's Quiver]

Good news for the Pompey fans who have suffered through this although not their owners etc who really have messed that club up.

The thing is they'll come out of administration with a take-over I presume and then some fans will expect money to be spent again to achieve promotion or something such is the expectations of them.

Clubs do get anyway with over-spending it seems but I suspect they feel the need to in order to statisfy fans who want "ambition"

Doesnt the terms of the CVA prevent them from doing this?

Surely Chanrai's incentive for buying the club is to get more of his investment back? Hes not in it for the love of the game is he?

I think this decision is just a reprieve. Instead of a quick execution, they will now probably die a lingering painful death. They still have £20m odd to repay under the CVA, in the Chamionship whilst there owner bleeds the club and previous owners still lay claim to surrounding land.

I would be amazed if they turn the corner from here and get through the next few years without sinking a lot further

That's my understanding of matters as well. Chanrai is to all extent a sheep in wolves clothing who many Pompey fans fear will bleed the club dry. So today's judgement, whilst a repreive, may yet turn out to be something of a poison chalice.

Bizarrly, HMRC may just have been the best friend those supporters could have had.

[Once were Biscuitmen]

The problem is this.

If HMRC had won on the footballers creditor argument then Pompey would have been thrown out of the league. Then, as their barrister argued, they would have been liquidated and the unsecured, non-football creditors would have ended up with much less than 20%.

More interesting will be the detail of the written judgement over the tax status of image rights paid to foreign bank accounts, although their is a separate case pending on this issue.