Safe-Standing petition

[Wycombe Royal]

No one is suggesting making space for tens of thousands to stand, I would suggest £100 would be top cost of the barriers per stading space.

So they can just charge an extra £100 per season ticket for one season for anyone who wants to go in a safe standing area, assuming it sells out. Sorted.

Why would they need to get it back in one go, safe standing will only come to RFC if it increases turnover over a few seasons, It could cost less with stewards if the areas were both behind the goals, lose the flashpoint between South and East stands then. And they could sell on the seats they remove to create the area, unlikely to happen for a good few years tho. Especially if we get promoted again.

I was just being sarcastic.......

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

too many trips to the Wheelies.

[JC]

Can anybody explain to me how we can gave safe standing without spending a fortune. The stands at our ground are steep with large steps so it would be too dangerous to stand unless you were to build safety barriers all along every step and I cannot seee the club spending that kind of money.

No one is suggesting making space for tens of thousands to stand, I would suggest £100 would be top cost of the barriers per stading space.

So providing standing space for 5,000 would cost 500,000. And how would the club make that up?

[66DD]

Hooligans are much more likely to want to stand if the opportunity was there.

How so? Any evidence or statistics to back that up?

I can't quite believe your post. There is plenty of evidence going back decades that hooligan behaviour takes place whilst those who are pre-disposed to be hooligans are standing up. I can find little comparable evidence that those who are pre-disposed to hooligan behaviour embark on it whilst seated (e.g. pitch invasions are much less likely to occur by people who are seated than those who are standing; and it's a tad difficult to "take the home end" whilst seated). I accept that throwing missiles can and does happen whilst people are seated.

I'll reiterate the other point that I was making, which you have selectively ignored, in that standing does not make a person a hooligan. For example,I managed to stand for a whole match on Saturday together with the couple of thousand around me without a single urge to become a hooligan.

[Jerry St Clair]

I can't quite believe your post. There is plenty of evidence going back decades that hooligan behaviour takes place whilst those who are pre-disposed to be hooligans are standing up. I can find little comparable evidence that those who are pre-disposed to hooligan behaviour embark on it whilst seated (e.g. pitch invasions are much less likely to occur by people who are seated than those who are standing; and it's a tad difficult to "take the home end" whilst seated).

Christ, if football fans believe this sort of stuff, what hope do we have?

[brendywendy]

standing fan indulges in hooligan behaviour, therefore its cos he was standing?!

LOL

[Svlad Cjelli]

It's just as likely to be "hooligans are from lower income groups so naturally use the lowest-price accommodation at grounds."

In any case, all those who spout on about hooligans stand seem to conveniently ignore the fact that problems IN grounds have been almost completely eliminated because of CCTV and banning orders, so the whole scenario is quite different to the 80s.

PS Some Police Commanders have said that it will be a lot easier to arrest trouble-makers in standing accommodation than in seated accommodation. The lack of mobility in seated areas hinders them, too.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Can anybody explain to me how we can gave safe standing without spending a fortune. The stands at our ground are steep with large steps so it would be too dangerous to stand unless you were to build safety barriers all along every step and I cannot seee the club spending that kind of money.

No one is suggesting making space for tens of thousands to stand, I would suggest £100 would be top cost of the barriers per stading space.

So providing standing space for 5,000 would cost 500,000. And how would the club make that up?

You have mentioned 5000, so come up with your own answer to that figure.

IMHO there would be no more than 1000 at each end, poosibly only 500 in the away end. So a cost of perhaps 150k. There are many ways to get it back, one would be to have just two prices in the standing area, £375 over 21 and £300 u21for ST's, no OAP rates or small kids rates. similar for single games

[West Stand Man]

I just love the detailed calculations going on based on a wet finger guess for the price. I put it to you that stripping out seats, making good the surface and then installing safe barriers will come to a bit more than £100 a place - but then I am only guessing too.

[Ian Royal]

I just love the detailed calculations going on based on a wet finger guess for the price. I put it to you that stripping out seats, making good the surface and then installing safe barriers will come to a bit more than £100 a place - but then I am only guessing too.

I don't think there's many people with sense suggesting any reliable costings seriously.

[Svlad Cjelli]

None of these number make any sense at all - the way to look at it is that safe-standing areas allow an increase in capacity of 80% for an area.

So as long as there is sufficient concourse capacity and sufficient demand for tickets, there's an extra 80% ticket revenue for an area - not to mention extra refreshment's etc to cover com version costs.

So for every thousand seats converted at an an average cost of £25, assuming you sell out you have 19 matches selling 800 tickets at £25 each.

So that's £380,000 increased income per season for each 1,000 seats converted. Convert 3,000 seats and that's an income of over £1 million in the first season alone. Use PL prices of closer to £40 per ticket and you get £608k per season extra income.

It's easy to make the sums add up if you think of this as a cheap and easy way to increase stadium capacity.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I just love the detailed calculations going on based on a wet finger guess for the price. I put it to you that stripping out seats, making good the surface and then installing safe barriers will come to a bit more than £100 a place - but then I am only guessing too.

I don't think there's many people with sense suggesting any reliable costings seriously.

I got my figures off the radio, so must be about right.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

standing fan indulges in hooligan behaviour, therefore its cos he was standing?!

LOL

I don't think that's what he was saying.

It was more that hooligans are more likely to want to be on the terraces than in the seats, not that wanting to stand means you are likely to be a hooligan, or that standing up makes you more violent.

The point is that if we do bring back terraces, it would make sense to not put them near the away fans, as that would increase the odds of crowd trouble. If we had a terrace then it should be in the north stand, not Y25/26.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

According to this it costs £91 per seat (or did in 2006)

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/kombist.php

The remarkable thing about that is that it's an official report of an inspection of terracing and safe standing in Hamburg. It's finding are all positive, showing no evidence of any dangers.

It's states its main findings are...

the FLA's main findings may be summarised as follows:

1. The combination of "Kombi" seats and removable barriers is an ingenious and well-engineered system that overcomes most of the disadvantages, in particular inadequate seats and restricted views while seated, of the standing / seating conversions installed at other German football grounds.
2. This system could, with certain modifications, comply with the safety standards required in England and Wales.


and then, at the end just concludes...

3 The FLA considers that the development of the "Kombi" seat system in Germany does not affect the key arguments for or against the retention of the Government's long-standing policy on all-seated grounds.


Unbelievable. How can anyone rationally say that the fact that a system that could be safely introduced in England has no relevence to whether it should be allowed in England or not?

[Svlad Cjelli]

Simply because the FLA exists to enforce the no-standing regulation. Take away those regulations and they have no need to exist. Would they say anything else?

[JC]

According to this it costs £91 per seat (or did in 2006)

http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/kombist.php

The remarkable thing about that is that it's an official report of an inspection of terracing and safe standing in Hamburg. It's finding are all positive, showing no evidence of any dangers.

It's states its main findings are...

the FLA's main findings may be summarised as follows:

1. The combination of "Kombi" seats and removable barriers is an ingenious and well-engineered system that overcomes most of the disadvantages, in particular inadequate seats and restricted views while seated, of the standing / seating conversions installed at other German football grounds.
2. This system could, with certain modifications, comply with the safety standards required in England and Wales.


and then, at the end just concludes...

3 The FLA considers that the development of the "Kombi" seat system in Germany does not affect the key arguments for or against the retention of the Government's long-standing policy on all-seated grounds.


Unbelievable. How can anyone rationally say that the fact that a system that could be safely introduced in England has no relevence to whether it should be allowed in England or not?

Reading that report it seems that you effectively replace one type of seat with another. Where does the 80% increase in capacity come from as referred to above. Also are our terraces the siaze referred to in the report?

[Royal Lady]

I emailed John Redwood, my local MP, asking him whether he was supporting Don Foster's bill - this was his reply:

Thank you for your email. I will consider it further, but I am concerned about standing safety at grounds.

LOL!

[brendywendy]

maybe if you actually looked into it instead of just fobbing me off with a shit email, then you wouldnt be concerned any more.

you cockend vulcan

[Svlad Cjelli]

Don't worry, that's easy to shoot down - I'll provide suitable text in due course.

[readingbedding]

Waste of time and money, won't happen.