Racism in football (John Terry spin-off)

[jonboy29red]

just seen this on bbc site why do u think its comming back?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19859680

[harryroyal]

Jason Roberts has been going on about this a lot on twitter. He basically says, as there are hardly any black people in management, admin etc there's prejudice in the game. I personally don't agree the lack of black managers is prejudice, i just think there were less black players around when the current crop of managers were playing, so in 10-15 years time there will be plenty of black managers.

[ZacNaloen]

I've asked him what the percentage he loves to quote was when the current group of managers were playing. I don't expect a response. It's the fatal flaw in his argument.

[peterroyal76]

He once mentioned Andy Cole as an example of a former black player who hasn't gone into coaching or management, stating that Andy decided to give up while taking his badges because he THOUGHT he wouldn't get a chance at a job.

[No Fixed Abode]

Just posted this on the team board....


He's going off on one again, on Twitter.

He really is a complete douchebag. He won't be happy until there is black supremacy in the game.

He should shut up, sort his performances out on the pitch and concentrate more on his coaching career, instead of wasting time on twitter.

[PBR]

I think there is still a fear amongst footballers to come out of the closet, namely due to the ferocity of fans that exist in the game, says alot that the only out gay in english footballer ended up killing himself. Every ground up and down the country has fans spouting homophobic nonsense. It is something I would like to see addressed.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I think there is still a fear amongst footballers to come out of the closet, namely due to the ferocity of fans that exist in the game, says alot that the only out gay in english footballer ended up killing himself.

He killed himself 5 years after his last game in England, but only one month after being questioned by police on an indecent assault charge, which he referred to in his suicide note.


As for black managers, I'd say there's definitely some truth in the claims black managers are overlooked. I don't think there are many chairman saying "I don't want a black guy running my club", but it is likely that chairman would have a profile of what a good manager should be like, and a black guy might not fit the bill.

[ZacNaloen]

There is clearly a problem in that the majority of ex-players don't go onto coaching/managing. And that the game has a problem with institutional racism/homophobia (although it's easier to keep the latter a secret).

But until someone can produce the figure that says Y years ago there was x - ratio of black players in the league and there are now x-ratio of black coaches/managers I'm not going to see it as anything but a flawed argument. The numbers don't match up because there are significantly more black players now, but not then.

[PBR]

How many out gay managers have there been??

[harryroyal]

I don't agree there's racism in the management of football. Perhaps at some clubs the fans have a culture of racism but at management level it's different. Jason Robert's tweets seem to be getting more absurd. Most his tweets seem to pull the racism card anyway but his tweet about clubs having to interview one black person for a manager is absurd. What happened to employing the best? Black managers will come now there are more black players in the game, there's no racism. He also seems to ignore anyone who legitimately questions is argument.

[creative_username_1]

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[Zammo]

.....and isn't Roberts looking at working in the media rather than management after he hangs up his boots ? Totally flawed. Start on your coaching badges and work your way up if it means that much to you.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Based on an approximate 3% of the English population being black, 2 black managers out of the 92 clubs isn't quite such an injustice.

There are many more in the non-league circuit.

[Super_horns]

So he won't agree with what David James said...about there being no racisim in the game?

[Mr Angry]

There is another dimension to this; the premiership has delivered massive riches to the players, and so nowadays far less of the top players need to go into management after their careers than in the past, especially with the vast amouint of media opportunities available as an alternative; hell - even being a reporter at a game for Sky Sports is more lucrative than standing on the touchline at Accrington Stanley on a wet Tuesday night in November, being verbally abused by a load of care in the community refugees in bobble hats.

Even those of the top players that venture into management only consider a top team worthy of their experience; Shearer to Newcastle for 8 games for example?? If he seriously wanted to go into Management (as opposed to merely playing his "Messiah" role), don't Hartlepool have a vacancy at the moment???

The best English manager today is - imho - black, but will never get the job at a Liverpool, or a Chelsea or even Hartlepool.....not because of colour, but because of gender.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

.....and isn't Roberts looking at working in the media rather than management after he hangs up his boots ? Totally flawed. Start on your coaching badges and work your way up if it means that much to you.

+1, it should give him more motivation to do it, but noooo, he doesn't want to.
He just likes to bitch and moan.

If there are that many black managers who are unfairly out of a job, how come there's none that have had a job that have done particularly well?
Ruud Gullit, what a disaster, then that guy at wolves, another disaster, Paul Ince, John Barnes, they've all pretty much been useless.

If there were any that were any good, they'd be in a job, it's got nothing to do with color and everything to do with being CRAP at their job.

the usual counter to that is that there are many white managers who are crap, yet keep getting hired.

[Hoop Blah]

There is clearly a problem in that the majority of ex-players don't go onto coaching/managing. And that the game has a problem with institutional racism/homophobia (although it's easier to keep the latter a secret).

To be fair I don't see how the majority of players can go into coaching/management when a typical ratio of coaches to player would be about 10-1 in a professional club...

There does seem to be some kind of glass ceiling for non-whites to get into management though. How much of that is self inflicted through perception etc I have no idea. There's certainly been a dearth of successful trail blazers from that community for some reason though.

It's funny how you never hear the likes of Roberts complain about white men being woefully under represented in professional players terms.

[Stuboo]

Yeah, Robert's rhetoric on this is all rather OTT,annoying and possibly unfounded IMHO. It is true, out of the black manager's we've had, few have been any good. Not sure that many want to go into management also.

[Hoop Blah]

I do think this is quite anomoly in the game though, although whether it's racism or not I'm not so sure.

You would've expected more black managers to have had a stab at it over the last 5-10 years, but there really haven't been that many, and for some reason they've generally not been too successful and certainly not really climbed the ranks (or is that just a perception and they've been as successful as other skin colours and backgrounds?).

Keith Curle - mixed, some success at Mansfield (?) and back in work again now
Leroy Rosenior - mixed. Won promotion but also relegation. Quickest sacking too
Chris Hughton - Success (good job at Newcastle and decent enough at Birmingham)
John Barnes - failure
Paul Ince - Part success, part failure (did well early on, but failed at Blackburn and Notts County)
Keith Alexander - Successful (did well with limited funds although not sure he ever won a promotion)
Chris Powell - Successful (so far doing well)
Jean Tigana - Successful (did a good job at Fulham, albeit with a lot of money)
Chris Kamara - Failure
Ruud Gullit - mixed
Terry Connor - Failure
Andy Preece - Failure

I'm struggling to think of any others (I'm sure there are some obvious ones I've missed), but that's not actually that bad a record of success.

[Alexander Litvinenko]

Isn't this the same phenomenon that means there are very few black quarter-backs in American football - an assumption/stereotype that whilst black people are fast and strong, and so good enough to play in certain positions, they're not "clever" enough for certain roles where you need brains rather than muscle and speed?

For quarter-backs in the US, read managers here.